253 replies to this topic

[Aircraftkiller]

I noticed another thread on the subject of America being a fascist nation... I don't get how you can reach that conclusion but I will present this to you:

Have you ever noticed how people that support liberal idealogies are the ones that normally push for more control over society through government, and not the more conservative individuals?

It's odd that they are also the same people that label anyone Republican as being fascists... Well, not all of them. But a lot of them do. Now to get to my point... How was fascism, as we know it today, made? Through the efforts of the Nazi party in Germany. So the Nazis were conservative minded people, right?

Wrong!

What they like to forget mentioning is the fact that Nazi is the German short version of National Socialist. Nazi Germany was a socialist nation, and was almost identical to the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics... Yet they both hated each other even though the idealogies were almost the same, if not identical.

So please explain to me how I'm a fascist when your own idealogy is what breeds fascism and allowed a man to reach power that brought war to the entire world?

[Mastermind]

Perhaps this comic will help a bit?

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[Aircraftkiller]

That illustrates my point pretty well. I'm coming to the line of thought that the liberal idealogy leads to fascism in a more democratic sense; that is they try to imitate the rise of the Third Reich by getting popular support to silence all dissenting viewpoints.

Fortunately it's not working, as shown with the last election.

[Mastermind]

Any political agenda can lead toward fascism, or a form of totalitarianism. Just as the liberals are not innocent, neither are conservative groups. A good balance is what allows us to maintain at least some illusion of freedom.

[Aircraftkiller]

Eh, if you actually follow the ideals of conservatives it would be nearly impossible for a dictatorship to arise.

[Mastermind]

I prefer to not subscribe to any one set of ideals, and not examine their theories, but instead the way they enact their ideas. The current conservative administration is enacting what I feel to be some dangerous levels of censorship. The strong push for "decency" in television and radio is just one place that I see it happening. I personally consider myself a conservative leaning moderate, so I am not wedded to either party. I support the best candidate for the position.

[Aircraftkiller]

The FCC is unConstitutional anyway.

[Mastermind]

That may be so, but you do not see anyone moving to remove it, do you? I see them working to strengthen it. Other areas that worry me include the restriction of Stem cell research. This is an area of study that has potential to be provide huge benefits to humanity, yet we are suppressing its study, limiting it to a few current lines of cells, which will eventually be useless. No one side is correct, which is why we need some type of compromise.

[ComradeJ]

Nazis socialist? Hah! They just had that in their name to to have people that didn't know shit about politics voted them too. In fact, the nazis were jealous of the Brits with their aristocracy. Fortunately for us, von Ribbentrop was an idiot in Britain and the two countries never got an alliance.
When talking about the Soviet-Union, it's not perfectly communist. The communists don't believe in war (which was something that was embedded in fascism), although in real life, they were pretty agressive...

America isn't really fascist, but you can't deny that the military takes an important part in the government, it's awfully conservative and it's right-winged.

[MSpencer]

Don't be so ignorant, the Nazis were officially national socialists, and showed a very socialist system of local government during their reign.

[Tom]

National Socialists. Its like Stalins Socialism in one Nation ideology except for one difference. Prejudice and hate were the way to uniting the people as one. In Stalin Russia the way to unite people was through work and/or fear.

Socialism is not the same as National socialism, don't get it confused. National socialists believe in an aryan race and most Nazi's are generally thugs. They use power to remove their prejudices because they are cowards. Socialists believe everyone is equal no matter what race or where they come from. They believe in helping the working class and taxing the rich to do this. Greed causes alot of problems and spawns hate. National Socialists hate capitalism and they hate how the middle class is not in power. When the middle class get pushed out by capitalists and their major corporations you will see fascism rising in a country just like it did in germany. Thats one way i link fascism to capitalism.

I like america, i like the people and i love the country. Its a nice place to be, i take holidays with my family there quite often. What gets me is how the nation is so conservative. What do i have against conservatives? Greed is something that naturally pisses me off. I hate selfish acts. Conservatives are generally only out for the pockets, they care for nothing more. The current rise of nationalism in America is also a worrying factor. Nationalism is rascism disguised as patriotism. Ignorance also pisses me off. The fact billions of people are starving in the world so america, britain and the west can be rich and continue to exploit third world countries to stay rich themselves really makes me hate capitalism. THats why i'm so left wing, i hate seeing people suffering in pain for no reason what so ever other than greed. Then when people say "Why should i pay tax money to help them?" that also seriously pisses me off.

Conservativism in my opinion = people suffering so other people can be rich or become richer. It is not needed. Then they say they are christian when the whole aspect of Christianity is against greed and corruption.

[MSpencer]

The way I see it national socialism is nationalism and the ideals of socialism mixed together. National socialism has only been seen officially in Germany, but nationalism, and I don't mean BNP racism, is prevalent in every country, and is the belief held by most patriots. Nationalism is simply the belief that your country is superior, and admit it, all of us have those feelings somewhere, socialist of not. All of us have the potential and the thoughts to be nazis, we just don't act on it, and that makes us better.

[Silent_Killa]

Heh, this is a point I remember bringing up in some post...

Fascism is a single party dictatorship, it can be socialist, conservative... the only place where fascism cannot accur is within anarchy

[ComradeJ]

In what way was Nazi Germany socialist? In the way they were trying to create an aristocracy? In the way they sent the 'ordinary' guys to die by millions?

[Tom]

National Socialist. Think of Stalins Socialism in one country, but with race rather than "equality." Hitler was trying to make one society, 100% pure german/aryan. They wanted to remove homelessness and give everyone a job. They wanted to remove suffering by removing those who they believed caused it, but we know how fucked up their beliefs were.

[MSpencer]

I agree that they were fucked up, but they did provide stability to Germany until 1939. They reorganized a wounded nation.

[Allied General]

and then the commies messed it up?

5.2 million unemployed & rising

[Tom]

They did, however the nazi's were again made out of anger from the versailles treaty. Again we can blame france (lol) for being greedy over the results of a war they themselves took themselves into.

[theliberator]

I agree that they were fucked up, but they did provide stability to Germany until 1939. They reorganized a wounded nation.

That's not true at all, already at the beginning of 1937 it was noticable for everybody half-educated in economics, that Hitler's policy would have ruined Germany in 3 years.
They spend 62% of the budget for military equipement in 1939, for example.
He planned the war from the beginning, all the actions he took served the two goals he wanted to accomplish:
Get territory for the Arian "race" (which doesn't exist btw) and extinguish the Jews.

That also implies, that national socialism has nothing to do with socialism nor communism, it's one part imperialistic and one part pure madness.

Edited by theliberator, 14 April 2005 - 01:31 PM.

[Tom]

We were just stating the term national socialism and what it was for hitlers short reign. I myself believe that hitlers father beating him when he was young and WWI drove him insane. The war would have affected alot of it, war affects soliders in odd ways sometimes. He came home believing he had been betrayed, he saw all his comrades had fallen for nothing. I believe if WWI never happened, its possible we would have never seen Hitler let alone heard of him, yet again it would have been Stalin rolling his tanks into Europe, just like RA1 states