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#241 Silent_Killa

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 12:51 AM

Don't tell me how to quote in my own forum. Theres a forum bug, i'm not going to edit a post once its posted and go through fixing quotes just because your unhappy.

It is a pain in the arse, will somebody fix it already?

Lenin didn't commit mass murder. He didn't say "i don't like him, shoot him" like stalin did. Stalinism is what we saw from 1940 - the fall of the soviet union. If you disagree fair enough, but stalinism could be said to be based on feudalism as the system was extremely close. Stalin distorted the image of communism, he lost the vision and millions of people worldwide suffered gravely from it.

Stalin merely displayed how easily corruptable the system is. Think about it, the second leader, and already they ended up with an evil dictator.

Socialism is not kill all those fuckers who disagree with us, its about everyone being equal and having the freedoms that capitalism restricts.

No, it's about everyone being exactly the same, and destroying freedom. Equality is nice, but everyone being exactly the same isn't, a free market is the basis of freedom, as it allows for someone other than the government to have power.

He meant religion. Marx was against religion because he saw it as a way for the bourgeisue to exploit the workers, and to an extent it is true.

Yes, we give you freedom, so long as you don't chose to believe anything that we don't believe in.

Hitler was extreme right. Unless you wish to set out on one of your tireless crusades to change history, accept it. He was extreme right. He was totally the opposite to socialists. Everyone equal. He believed in a hierarchial structure in which the middle class lead the way. The middle class is mainly who hitler targetted as they generally shared the same prejudices as him. Socialism is for the working class to free them from corruption and exploitation they receive under fascism and capitalism. Socialism is against typically against war. Pacifists are usually left wing. Problems with russia was they were built on war and they had to compete with the US to ensure they still had dominance throughout the world. If that had not been the case, i'm sure the USSR would have never gone backrupt and would have turned into the liberal socialism that communism is supposed to be.

What the hell are you talking about? War is a human inevitability, there will always be someone to fight. The USSR would have remaned the brutal dictatorship that it was until it's fall, simply because it was necessary as no one really wanted to be under their control.

Thats why britains economy is the strongest it has ever been, thats why people have never been so happy with labour, thats why they just won a third term, thats why blair is resigning (from his centre-right post of the labour party to be replaced with brown who is left wing). Thats also why spain is against war and many spanish people are happy with their new government.

It's to early to tell how it's working.

Look up other socialist countries before you blabber on a load of shit. Most of them are more successful than capitalism. To the point america and its corporate capitalism, most of your children live in poverty, medicare is being cut and probably will no longer exist in the near future. Many of your soliders are coming home with no benefits and unable to work. Your unemployment is rising and your economy getting worse every day. Compare capitalist america to socialist britain and you'll see socialism works in its moderate form, which is the form i support. Now just if it was more liberal a lot of more people would be happy.

You need to visit America...

Its so typical for a right-winger. Everything thats evil to him is considered left-wing, even if it violates human history.

Yes, and that's never found in left wingers. For shits sake, all's I hear from 90% of the people here is how evil capitalism is, regardless of what history indicates.

War boosts economy. Iraq. US government is on the verge of bankruptcy. No need to say more, other then it looks as America is coming nearer and nearer to the fate of the Soviet Union.

War itself doesn't boost the economy. This isn't the 1800's where we get to keep what we invade. America has had it's highs and lows, the fact of the matter is capitalism tends to bounce back, because capitalism is a competitive system.
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#242 Banshee

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 02:50 AM

Don't tell me how to quote in my own forum. Theres a forum bug, i'm not going to edit a post once its posted and go through fixing quotes just because your unhappy.

It is a pain in the arse, will somebody fix it already?


- IPB guys still haven't fixed. Revora forums are updated to the latest version of IPB...


Socialism is not kill all those fuckers who disagree with us, its about everyone being equal and having the freedoms that capitalism restricts.

No, it's about everyone being exactly the same, and destroying freedom. Equality is nice, but everyone being exactly the same isn't, a free market is the basis of freedom, as it allows for someone other than the government to have power.


- You are confusing comunism with socialism. Socialism is simply have all business controlled by govern. Comunism puts everyone in the same (usually shitty) level.
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#243 Silent_Killa

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 05:48 AM

- IPB guys still haven't fixed. Revora forums are updated to the latest version of IPB...

great... :)

- You are confusing comunism with socialism. Socialism is simply have all business controlled by govern. Comunism puts everyone in the same (usually shitty) level.

As I said, the government then has all the power. There is no longer a free market.
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"Most people do not really want freedom, because freedom involves responsibility, and most people are frightened of responsibility." -Sigmund Freud
"Laws: We know what they are, and what they are worth! They are spider webs for the rich and mighty, steel chains for the poor and weak, fishing nets in the hands of the government." -Pierre Joseph Proudhon
"You sleep safe in your beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do you harm." -George Orwell

#244 Mastermind

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 06:24 AM

Quote limit raised to 20 per post. Hopefully that's enough for you folk.
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#245 dancam

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 09:26 AM

Why do you believe that Britain is Socialist?? When it quite clearly is not?
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#246 Allied General

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 09:48 AM

Why do you believe that Britain is Socialist?? When it quite clearly is not?

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capitalism is for the industrialised, socialism is for all the poor arses to be frank :)
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#247 MSpencer

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 11:17 AM

Socialists see the world as their country and it is a total opposite to the ideology of "National Socialism" which sees just their country and the aryan race, whom which all members are equal.

That's equalism. It works for Sweden and Switzerland.
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#248 Banshee

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 11:24 AM

What works for Sweden and Switzerland is Social Democracy.
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#249 MSpencer

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 11:52 AM

Only because they run away from international politics.
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#250 Allied General

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 11:56 AM

Only because they run away from international politics.

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lol very true, its a very closed society :)
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#251 Blodo

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 12:47 PM

Socialists see the world as their country and it is a total opposite to the ideology of "National Socialism" which sees just their country and the aryan race, whom which all members are equal.



That's equalism. It works for Sweden and Switzerland.

Seems more like shovinism. Theyre immigration offices are all but closed down for anyone foreign to them.

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#252 Tom

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 02:43 PM

Stalin merely displayed how easily corruptable the system is.  Think about it, the second leader, and already they ended up with an evil dictator.


Agreed. Again lenin was a fanatic that believed he would make a better world. He failed, he didn't think what would happen after his death and as result of that stalin took over to become the worlds most evil dicator. If trotsky had chosen to read out lenins testiment after his death then stalin would have never got into power, then again trotsky has part of the blame. My personal favourite bolshevik would have been bukarin because he supported NEP and it wouldn't have resulted in the oppression and mass murder.

No, it's about everyone being exactly the same, and destroying freedom.  Equality is nice, but everyone being exactly the same isn't, a free market is the basis of freedom, as it allows for someone other than the government to have power.


]Yes, we give you freedom, so long as you don't chose to believe anything that we don't believe in.


We are talking about communism not moderate socialism here. If i was to say i'm a socialist i'd still allow people to follow any religion they wish, as that is their right, however i would not apply it with government because that is where problems begin against freedom.


It's to early to tell how it's working.


Reading many reports recently, yes, maybe i shouldn't be so short sighted. Reports say we could be heading for a recessions. But this would be thanks to the £5bn spending gap brown has been building.


You need to visit America...


You need to visit the squalors. I have visited america. And i know the education are terrible there and in the poor areas of town the living standards are disguisting. You cannot deny the truth, maybe i over exaggerated, but there are thousands of children living in poverty in the US.

Why do you believe that Britain is Socialist?? When it quite clearly is not?


Labour is a socialist party, however its a lot more right wing than old labour, still its a socialist party. We now have a minimum wage, benefits, currently a strong economy and increased health care although the hospitals need sorting. Although capitalism still exists, which is a good thing, everyone is beginning to become looked after by the state, which is the most important thing. I'm happy of how britain is atm. IMO we just need tougher laws and punishment, reformed education system and more cleaners in the NHS along with a few liberal laws such as legalise cannabis (which i feel would be good as it could cut on binge drinking and crime on the weekends. Yet it might not work, depends if people would rather waste 50 quid on booze and get rowdy or 10 quid on a tenth and get monged lol)

#253 Silent_Killa

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 04:25 AM

Agreed. Again lenin was a fanatic that believed he would make a better world. He failed, he didn't think what would happen after his death and as result of that stalin took over to become the worlds most evil dicator. If trotsky had chosen to read out lenins testiment after his death then stalin would have never got into power, then again trotsky has part of the blame. My personal favourite bolshevik would have been bukarin because he supported NEP and it wouldn't have resulted in the oppression and mass murder.

Lenin wasn't exactly a great guy, but he wasn't Stalin, we realy don't know what Trotsky would have done, but I'd assum it would have been better (couldn't be much worse)...

We are talking about communism not moderate socialism here. If i was to say i'm a socialist i'd still allow people to follow any religion they wish, as that is their right, however i would not apply it with government because that is where problems begin against freedom.

Parts of socialism I do believe in, I actualy believe the solution incorporates bits and pieces of almost everything. I believe that the government should prevent people from suffering, nothing more, as in food stamps, and housing... I do not believe the government should be involved in private bussiness, other than guaranteeing basic human rights.

Reading many reports recently, yes, maybe i shouldn't be so short sighted. Reports say we could be heading for a recessions. But this would be thanks to the £5bn spending gap brown has been building.

Reports on both sides realy, I could be completely wrong, and the world could turn to socialism, none of us can see the future :ohmy:

You need to visit the squalors. I have visited america. And i know the education are terrible there and in the poor areas of town the living standards are disguisting. You cannot deny the truth, maybe i over exaggerated, but there are thousands of children living in poverty in the US.

You assume too much about me, I grew up in the ghetto man, I watched a car fly over my fence into the back yard as he fired rounds back at cops. The house across from me was a meth lab. The next house was a whore house. People attempted to jump me all the time on my way to the store. I couldn't sleep without checking the house, and making sure my piece was ready.

People were poor because they didn't care, the education system could do nothing for them because they didn't want to learn... hell, I didn't want to learn. We got out, hard work, that's all it took, maybe a little luck, but mostly hard work. That is why I support the capitalist system so strongly.
My political compass
Economic Left/Right: 6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.64


"Most people do not really want freedom, because freedom involves responsibility, and most people are frightened of responsibility." -Sigmund Freud
"Laws: We know what they are, and what they are worth! They are spider webs for the rich and mighty, steel chains for the poor and weak, fishing nets in the hands of the government." -Pierre Joseph Proudhon
"You sleep safe in your beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do you harm." -George Orwell

#254 Blodo

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 11:58 PM

Lenin wasn't exactly a great guy, but he wasn't Stalin, we realy don't know what Trotsky would have done, but I'd assum it would have been better (couldn't be much worse)...

Trotsky was too impulsive to do good in ww2. Stalin made some briliant decisions during the war, thats why Russia wasnt invaded right after Poland and they had time to mobilize. Its also a bit of Hitler and his stupidity's fault, but Stalin just knew how to use it. But he still was a crazy bastard, after the war he totally lost his head and initiated one of the worst dictatorships in history.

Trotsky would do well in times of peace, Stalin knew how to build his empire on war.

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