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#541 MSpencer

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 06:04 PM

The latter. I'm laying down the law.
Any post which is deemed not to be a well formulated argument will be sent to the spam factory in a mass exodus called "Stupid Frigging Posts from Stupidland".

Sorry but you got no right to do that, freedom of speech, just because its against your own opinions doesn't mean you can move it.

Leave any post regardless how stupid you think it is alone.

One sentence posts which ignore previous arguments in their entirety and focus only on ambiguous, ridiculous statements about how one side is right and the other is wrong are completely different from well constructed arguments. Such ridiculous posts ruin the quality of the think tank and turn it into the spam factory with a different set of discussions.
This is a place for intelligent discussion, not for ridiculous one sentence spam posts which involve declarations about the fact that the writer is listening to music and cannot be bothered to construct anything more than an incoherent and grammatically apalling sentence with no qualitative value.
So yes, I believe I've been more than just.
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#542 duke_Qa

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 06:18 PM

jesus and the devil sits in a bar and jesus says: "i really wish people didnt do all the things they do in my and my fathers name". then the devil says "yeah, i wish that people would do alot of things in my name, but noo."


nah, i believe that those who are not capable of thinking themselves and seeing whats wrong are the ones who will go to hell. the ones who have the wisdom to actually think themselves and choose their on path are the ones who will most likely be most in harmony with anything.

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#543 chemical ali

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 07:09 PM

I'm 110% evil, I was born to go to hell.
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#544 duke_Qa

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 08:52 PM

well if we follow the rules of christianity we all are born to go to hell because of the original sin. unless we are baptised and indoctrinated you will go to hell just because of what adam and eve did

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#545 cdmtx(YR)

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 10:38 PM

There is only one way to Heaven and one out of Hell! And worshiping and good deeds aren't any of those ways. The Bible says

Are good deeds are like dirty rags to God.


So then, how do we get out of Hell, and into Heaven? There is only one way and it is this.

You must believe that you are a siner.
What does the word sin mean? It means missing the mark, it is an archery term. God has a standard, a the mark that mark is sinlessness. Unfortunately, we have original sin for Adam and Eve and their fall into temptation, that is passed down to everyone . So even if you live a sinless life you still have original sin and you are going to pay the price, which is Hell.

You must believe in God, and he is the reason for everything.

You must believe that God sent his one and only son (Jesus), who was born by the Virgin Mary, and lived a sinless life.

You must believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins, and on the third day he rose from the dead.

You must invite Jesus into your heart and accept Jesus as your personal savior from Hell, sin, and the rath of his father God.

This is the only one way out of Hell and into Heaven!
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#546 chemical ali

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 10:49 PM

Yes I'm sure, if it excisted that would be the way.

Is it true if we kill gays and Muslims do we get into heaven or is that just a new christian invention recently?
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“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”

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Economic Left/Right: 10.00
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#547 Ironwolf

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 10:52 PM

Providing there is a heaven and hell...
That proves nuthing.
Its only false propaganda....

#548 cdmtx(YR)

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 10:52 PM

Yes I'm sure, if it excisted that would be the way.

Is it true if we kill gays and Muslims do we get into heaven or is that just a new christian invention recently?

That is something that some dumb a** made up.
The only way is right up there.
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#549 chemical ali

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 10:57 PM

Yes I'm sure, if it excisted that would be the way.

Is it true if we kill gays and Muslims do we get into heaven or is that just a new christian invention recently?

That is something that some dumb a** made up.
The only way is right up there.



But what if it was the other way round, those that didn't belive in God got in and those who did went to Hell!

And if Mary was a virgin, what if she was just slutty and took is up the ring?. Jesus did not excist, end of story all invented by Italian Monks in the 1400's. I belive in Stargate and the Ancients more than God.

Edited by chemical ali, 22 October 2006 - 10:58 PM.

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“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”

"In a man-to-man fight, the winner is he who has one more round in his magazine." -Erwin Rommel

Economic Left/Right: 10.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.56

#550 Ironwolf

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 11:08 PM

Well Jesus did exist.
However was Mary a Virgin? only if she was a child-theif.
But even Atheist books state Jesus was alive. But sort of like an American to a Modern-day terrorist.
The Roman's executed him on the cross (the symbol for their religion/cult) as a sort of irony you could assume for being an infidel. Believing in Christianity opposed to Roman Catholic or whatever it was.
My terrorist thing is like the Iraqui Extremists. You always hear them saying "americans are infidels!" And infidel meaning someone who is not of your religion or faith.

And for YOU *finger-stabs cdmtx*
The book Genesis states God made the Sun and Earth and man from the sand and mud in 6 days. The 7th day to rest, Sunday, yada yada.
But, this does not state for the accual physical proof of how dinosaurs became living, any other ethnic race, how any other religions came to idea, Where did Adam and Eve go?, or about any other celestial object IN THE UNIVERSE!

#551 cdmtx(YR)

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 11:11 PM

But what if it was the other way round, those that didn't belive in God got in and those who did went to Hell!

And if Mary was a virgin, what if she was just slutty and took is up the ring?. Jesus did not excist, end of story all invented by Italian Monks in the 1400's. I belive in Stargate and the Ancients more than God.

squirrels of the Gospel had been found, dating back to 60AD. And why would they bothered to invent the story. Wouldn't you consider that a waste of time and a what would be the motive. Hmmm let me think.
An Italian Monk in the 1400's

Hey Brother let's trick everyone on how to go to Heaven, and a part of the history of the world.

Another Monk

Oh boy lets do it!!


Edited by cdmtx(YR), 22 October 2006 - 11:12 PM.

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#552 MSpencer

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 11:12 PM

Reason has been a huge part of religion ever since two nudists took dieting advice from a snake.
My advice: Don't invest too heavily in chanting and superstition.
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#553 chemical ali

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 11:15 PM

cdmtx(YR), You are a complete and utter mong, there is no evidence for the Bible no scientific evidence! Well you would proberly dismiss it as devil work and go and firebomb some gyneocologists home because they kill babys.

I want to go to hell they have a better choice of cigars!
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#554 Calamity_Jones

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 03:23 AM

I'm pretty certain that Jesus did exist... I wouldn't go saying that's made up.. as full of crap as the Bible is, I doubt Jesus is an entirely fictional individual...

Now... what are our options cdmtx(YR)? I will never, ever accept God into my heart, as I've said before, I want to keep my ventricles full of blood and blood alone. So what are my options? From what I can see, your "all-loving" God is just going to send me right down to his ol' buddy Satan. No love there.

Reason has been a huge part of religion ever since two nudists took dieting advice from a snake.
My advice: Don't invest too heavily in chanting and superstition.


My advice: Don't take advice from bloody snakes!

kill the filthy mud-bloods!

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#555 Tom

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 06:06 PM

If God exists, it would not care what religion you follow or worship, only of what you have learnt here and what actions you did. Thats why I don't tend to argue against religions, because i care not which ones people believe and who is right and who is wrong. Its only more illusions humanity creates itself to manipulate religion into a right/wrong debate rather than into a personal spiritual development or set of personal guidelines.

You will not go to hell if you don't believe in Jesus, there is no hell in the sense of a place you physically burn for eternity. Hell is a human concept of suffering. We suffer because of the ignorance of our actions and their consequences. Technically we have to go to "hell" to learn from our mistakes and enter "heaven" which is commonly aligned with the light or positive: Wisdom, honour, love, hope, etc.
Hell could be argued as the human things that cause suffering: Fear, Anger, ignorance, etc.

Personally i believe Jesus existed, i believe he was a wise man who explained his ideas of peace and love using stories. He spread wisdom but people wanted him killed because his views were unorthodox and this is what happened. Since then people have constantly perverted his ideas and killed in his name believing they are serving him. All they have served is their own egos and wants to be right.

#556 Ironwolf

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 12:25 AM

Very well said, Hybrid!

I've to add that to my rest-of-the-universe point.

#557 MSpencer

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 12:49 AM

Hell is a human concept of suffering. We suffer because of the ignorance of our actions and their consequences.

The answer nobody has, you have suddenly found. Traditional philosophical hubris, it's why nobody likes them.
You can throw around ambiguous terms all you'd like, saying that the meaning of life is social change or whatever, preaching social mobilization, etc., but that isn't really it. There is no heaven, there is no hell. There is no empirical proof for either. To have suddenly come to the revelation that they're there and that they exist is simply preposterous, and is certainly the reason why the first people the Romans seem to have killed after they conquered the Greeks were the philosophers.
Sure, let's go for some good old allegorical storytelling here. I suppose if you drop dead knowing you murdered thirty seven people and used their trachea as straws and their eyes as golfballs, you'll probably live out the eternity, in reality the blink of an eye, that it takes your conscious mind to finally let go of your body in some sort of guilty agony. Maybe, perhaps, but there's certainly no empirical evidence that somehow some vital life force suddenly flies out of your body, boards a rather shoddy bus, and ends up somewhere resembling Mexico or Guatemala where everyone wears red and has tridents and horns. Certainly not.
And there's certainly no pearly white structure in the clouds where self-righteous do-gooders go after they've supported twelve genocides and their god through thick, thin, and nuclear holocaust. There's no empirical evidence to say that some as of yet absolutely unproven, undiscovered, unevidenced vital part of the human "soul" goes flying into the air to join with some ridiculous vindictive deity in his house of light where everyone runs around praising Jesus. Certainly not.
Similarly, any conception of these concepts, be it the identical Jewish or Muslim perspectives where the names simply change, or really any theistic perspective, are fundamentally unprovable, because they are simply the ramblings of a human mind contemplating its own futility. Unfortunately, the answer is that you are a manifestation of your very selfish genes, wanting to pass themselves on to the next generation, your feelings be damned. Well, yes, that sounds significantly less attractive than running around giving money to the poor devout, trying desperately to reach that last damn criteria to get the doors of holyness opened up for you, but in itself it is an elegant universe. It is simply more gratifying to think of myself as a vessel for genetic passage than to really start genuinely thinking that if I get hit by a bus, I'll be going upstairs to meet all the ridiculously nice people and perhaps some relatives (But more than likely not, if you have the priveledge of knowing my family's history and the horrible, horrible things they've done to all sorts of people). I would love to think that I could go to the party that never ends, and I'm sure if the party that never ends really exists, I'll be there (Really, does anyone think going to some ridiculous building with some evangelical demagogue every sunday will somehow buy you a ticket into the theater of eternity?). However, we should not confuse blind hopes and random thoughts of some way to explain our own mental agility and at the same time ultimate futility with reasonable thought about the end of human life.
While I'll admit the idea is a fantastic and fascinating thing, I certainly would love the best of food prepared by the best of imaginary chefs, playing chess perhaps with Albert Einstein (The very religious non-believer who, if the faith-heads are right, will certainly be spending an eternity roasting) on a grand boulevard looking out on an eternal ocean of serenity. Yes, it would be lovely, fantastic even, which brings us back to the root of the idea, fantasy.
I must say, unfortunately, that when we die, we go nowhere. Personally, I'm hanging on to this life the best I can. There's nothing afterwards, you get one shot, live it up, live healthy, and live life while you can, because when the end inevitably comes, you shouldn't delude yourself with self-aggrandizing notions of salvation.
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#558 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 03:14 AM

It would seem that some people are struggling with several religious concepts. First of all, religion in general is based on FAITH. Faith is believing without seeing. God asks us for our love and our trust in Him. Jesus came to the world preaching for peace and love. The Holy Spirit came to the apostles and gave them the gifts at Penticost so that they could spread the message of Jesus to the world. What is His message? "God loves you and has prepared a place for you." I fail to see the cynical hateful God that so many of you describe, the one that only accepts those who scream his name from the street corner. Jesus (historical, not spiritual) told a parable in Luke 17 about a poor man who lived on a rich man's doorstep and was covered in sores. The rich man, not caring for the poor man in life, was sent to Hell while the poor man was comforted in heaven. The poor man was not said to have spent every day of his life in worship but simply lived and was rewarded for it. It was not said that the rich man was an athiest who killed people, he simply was more concerned with his luxorious life than worrying about the people around him that needed the goods that he had so many of. Should we live life while we can, yes. Should we live life with a lack of concern for others, no. Pope John Paul II said that Ghandi, obviously not of the same religion, would go to heaven. So there goes the idea that Catholics (and Christians in general) have an exclusive "heaven club". Is heaven a comforting idea for loved ones and family, definitely. Is heaven a figment of our imagination? Is creation simply a patern falling into organization by the laws of nature set only by mathematical properties? If this is 100% true then human society was shaped on a set of lies, which I think is just a little hard to believe. Heaven is everlasting life with God. Harp playing angels are very romantic, but they do not describe what the joy of God is. God is love, God is happiness, God is eternity. Is, was and ever shall be. Am I insane to believe this? Perhaps. But I worry more for the people who would rather believe nothing because those are the kinds of people who instruct the conviction filled faithful to drive planes into buildings, not the people who study and believe in the God of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Peter, John and Paul. The God that loves you, no matter what.

#559 Blodo

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 06:26 AM

The human culture is based off lies for the most part anyways. Religion is just part of the equation. Now if we for some reason decide to delude ourselves with the idea that we will go to "heaven" it is probably just a defense mechanism built into our brains by evolution so that *some of us* wouldn't be driven mad at the sheer thought that they will some day die. It is actually very logical, but the idea is to finally percieve what it is: an illusion created by our minds.

ARGUMENT FROM CREATION, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (I)
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable.
(3) Therefore, God exists.


#560 Skywaters

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 06:47 AM

Dang for losing massive posts.

I'm saddened by the massive amounts of misconceptions so i'm going to do something I haven't done in a long time.

I'm going to throw this topic out right now to anyone who wants to ask any question that is answerable about Christianity and I'll take my best shot at answering it. If you don't want to that's fine, but I think there's alot of misconceptions (from alot of people) floating around here contributing to this topic...

So if you wish, ask away..
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