1340 replies to this topic

[Tom]

I could argue something about the mind but i'd prolly cause too much misunderstanding

[AdmiralGT]

I'm currently listening to Blurry, and this song motivated to not scan over spences posts, so here I go...going to take it all the way...

Ok, now, I know I'm an idiot, but leave the 'babbling' out. Now, there has to be a higher power, most likely a god. Of course, I could be wrong, be there is video proof of people being healed and such. What i want to say is, this argument's evidence is inconclusive.

Why? Why does there have to be a higher power? Because somebody told you?

And video proof of someone being healed. Yes, doctor's are great aren't they.

And whoever said "matter cannot be created", that is not true. The scientific law is that Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it is conserved. However, Energy can become matter and vice-versa. This is very easily seen in a high energy photon which produces a matter,anti-matter pair of particles which could collide to form a high energy photon.

[Phil]

Okay, here's my input:

For example AdmiralGT here, he refers to scientific law in his explanation. Law. Now if we look in our everyday situation, we see that our politic law are all made by someone (doesn't matter who in this case).
Now wouldn't the laws of science also need a lawgiver? You tell me that matter (and antimatter) can be transformed to energy and vice versa. But why?
Were these rules/laws just there? And if yes, how can it be, that they just existed from the very beginning of time?

Edited by Dark Lord of the Sith, 17 October 2006 - 09:35 AM.

[MSpencer]

Because that's how the universe works. When you make a car, you don't construct it with a set of laws and tell it what to do. I can't stand in front of a desk and dictate to it to disobey the laws of gravity. The laws of physics are simply there, and they work. That doesn't mean there has to be some sort of dictating power.

[Phil]

I'm not asking for a dictating power, I'm asking for the maker. But I guess in your opinion the laws were just there. Kinda like "that's how it is". Correct me if I'm wrong here...

Edited by Dark Lord of the Sith, 17 October 2006 - 10:26 AM.

[MSpencer]

That's how the universe works.

[duke_Qa]

until we can find a way to bend the laws of physics i don't see any reason to believe that you can change them or that they would spontaniously change. besides, things would quickly get messy if gravity suddenly inverted. not only that we would float into space and choke to death, but the planets themselves would be divided into smaller pieces, turning into dust that tries to get away from other dust-particles.

if we look at it that way, gravity is one of the sources of life, because without gravity, you wouldnt have the possibility to create planets or suns or clusters of the materials needed to create life as we know it.

[cdmtx(YR)]

A. We know several scientific laws are wrong. Newton's laws of motion are completely negated by our knowledge of the subatomic world, however they hold true in the every day world. The original laws of Dalton's chemical theory are widely considered to be outlandish today, however at the time, they were backed by every bit of experimental evidence that was present at the time. The first law of thermodynamics is a very grey area when speaking of any manner of physics. We know that matter cannot strictly be created or destroyed at any given time for any apparent reason which may present itself, however we cannot simply say that matter has always been here or that matter could have just sprung into existence. There is no experimental data to support any sort of belief that the matter has always been here, and there is no experimental data to support any sort of belief that the matter was instantly created by any sort of process. Therefore, it would rather be like the Romans coming up with an elegant theory about atomic fission without even knowing about the atom. In truth, we have no clue.

B. To assume such is flawed in many ways. First, this would violate the first law of thermodynamics, thus negating your entire argument. Second, we cannot just take everything that we cannot explain and attribute it to some unproven deity which may have had a book written about it a long time ago. In that regard, I could always say Julius Caesar developed the first nuclear device, but I would clearly appear to be raving mad and would clearly be in error. To suddenly believe that such things as the creation of the universe were suddenly precipitated by some mystical being for which there is absolutely no theoretical nor experimental proof, and that such an unproven being could simply violate every natural law we know of, is wholly unscientific and is reverting our society to that of the early Jewish societies four thousand years ago, or perhaps even before that to the fundamental roots of monotheism, which is widely regarded by evolutionary biologists as a bad idea.
Furthermore to believe in such things and to place such faith in things, in my opinion, is much further a leap of faith than to believe in something with mountains of proof such as evolution through natural selection, and the fundamentally correct notion of the "Big Bang" and its part in the formulation of the universe we know today.
For all we know, it's rather like a chain reaction, the arrangement of certain random ambient energy in the universe into basic matter in a hyperdense environment, resulting in a collapse in on itself and then outwards, causing a repeating cycle of big bangs and big crushes until such a time that the energy involved reaches equilibrium, rather like a very simple chemical reaction. It really is not all that wild an idea, and there's certainly evidence for it.

I believe your discrediting your own statement.

[chemical ali]

No hes just putting forward a well balanced argument.

[Airman]

Have you seen those Satanists with those funky powers? Now, there is some paranormal stuff going on, and there must be a god.

Anyways, when I posted earlier (Admiral quoted), I felt a hint of fear in MSpencer's post when he threatened to delete it because I started to get serious...

[cdmtx(YR)]

I believe he's contradicting himself. First he says "The first law of thermodynamics is a very grey area " then he says "This would violate the first law of thermodynamics, thus negating your entire argument"

[MSpencer]

I can't argue two points at the same time about the same thing without taking it from two perspectives. First, you said that scientific laws must be followed rigidly, to which I said they are somewhat grey.
Then you broke them, to which the only recourse is saying that they're not THAT gray.

And I don't fear idiots.

[Cossack]

Have you seen those Satanists with those funky powers? Now, there is some paranormal stuff going on, and there must be a god.

Anyways, when I posted earlier (Admiral quoted), I felt a hint of fear in MSpencer's post when he threatened to delete it because I started to get serious...

Wow! now there is something that is going to make me belive in a god. Satanists with funky powers! The more you post, the further you dig yourself into a hole of embarassement. If there were irrefutable and documented proof of supernatural powers, it would change the world, and that oviously has not happened.

[MSpencer]

The latter. I'm laying down the law.
Any post which is deemed not to be a well formulated argument will be sent to the spam factory in a mass exodus called "Stupid Frigging Posts from Stupidland".

[Calamity_Jones]

If you're so big and mighty, smite the living shit out of me!

Nope... still alive, guess the big man hasn't got any more slaughter in him... wuss

After a full fortnight (2 weeks) I'm STILL alive!

What's wrong with this guy... I ask him to cook me and what do I get? Absolutely no divine intervention...

Anyways,

Supernatural powers don't really do you any good, especially considering they're Satan induced. I guess Satan likes to bestow powers on his minions more than God. Good on him I say, God is too choosy, only his son, biased sod. Maybe Cthulu will bless me with evil powers? Hmm.

I suppose you can say that if Satan exists, so does God. Though using Satan to 'prove' God is sinking pretty low. He'll probably be more inclined to smite you than me :(

Edited by Calamity_Jones, 21 October 2006 - 07:36 PM.

[cdmtx(YR)]

The Bible says

Don't test the Lord your God.

God is a loving God, but he is also a just God. When your time comes, you will be punished (Hell) or pain and suffering here on Earth + Hell, this may even happen sooner like you are asking for.

Edited by cdmtx(YR), 22 October 2006 - 03:58 PM.

[MSpencer]

Oh I'm sure. Certainly feels like the middle ages around here, being damned and told we're going to hell because we like to think reasonably. Remember, stay away from those evil atheists, they'll subvert you.

[Calamity_Jones]

The Bible says

Don't test the Lord your God.

God is a loving God, but he is also a just God. When your time comes, you will be punished (Hell) or pain and suffering here on Earth + Hell, this may even happen sooner like you are asking for.

I want to go to Hell. It has better music. I guess God is more 'just' than loving these days. There's an awful lot of us evil heathens around, and rather than trying to help us.. we're all just going to burn in Hell for all eternity. You know... does anyone think of Hells administration? God is such an uncaring sod... them poor poor office workers in Hell who have to go through reams of burning paperwork with sharp teeth and tentacles that try to throttle you.

Not only that, but the Daemons must be seriously overworked, all those souls to punish for all eternity... the worse thing is... each one adds to an eternal workload. It's a wonder they haven't all gone on strike! Working such long hours for such pitiful wages. Poor poor cyberdaemons.

Edited by Calamity_Jones, 22 October 2006 - 04:51 PM.

[Tom]

The latter. I'm laying down the law.
Any post which is deemed not to be a well formulated argument will be sent to the spam factory in a mass exodus called "Stupid Frigging Posts from Stupidland".

Sorry but you got no right to do that, freedom of speech, just because its against your own opinions doesn't mean you can move it.

Leave any post regardless how stupid you think it is alone.

[CodeCat]

I want to go to Hell. It has better music. I guess God is more 'just' than loving these days. There's an awful lot of us evil heathens around, and rather than trying to help us.. we're all just going to burn in Hell for all eternity. You know... does anyone think of Hells administration? God is such an uncaring sod... them poor poor office workers in Hell who have to go through reams of burning paperwork with sharp teeth and tentacles that try to throttle you.

Not only that, but the Daemons must be seriously overworked, all those souls to punish for all eternity... the worse thing is... each one adds to an eternal workload. It's a wonder they haven't all gone on strike! Working such long hours for such pitiful wages. Poor poor cyberdaemons.

Hell is where all the cool people are going too, and all my friends. I don't want to leave them! So sign me up for it too!