97 replies to this topic

[Thorontur]

Simple poll to find out what everyone thinks about the current Elven siege situation. Add some discussion behind your votes by the way.

[zimoo]

3, 2, 3 are my answers

I think the concept is a very unique one, in that they must rely entirely on summons/heroes to siege fortresses. I think atm though, their options are too few. All their siege heroes are expensive, and they need to level up a bit before being able to siege. While waiting for the money/experience to purchase heroes, your enemy could easily gain complete map control, multiple bases or even defeat you. Or they could be really annoying (Gondor) and go for massed towers with the upgraded arrows.

They definatly need an easier way to siege, but for the life of me I can't figure out what. If you add rams/catapults then they lose their uniqueness (same with buildable ents). If you lower the cost of the siege-heroes then it'll be unbalanced etc

[adummy]

i dont know if you guys heard, but galadriel can attack gates with her normal attack

[zimoo]

No I didn't hear, what about the gondor battle towers?

[adummy]

i havent tried against that, but i know for sure that her normal attack works on the gates. sometimes you just have to move her closer like you do with the buildings

[Thorontur]

3, 2, 3 are my answers

I think the concept is a very unique one, in that they must rely entirely on summons/heroes to siege fortresses. I think atm though, their options are too few. All their siege heroes are expensive, and they need to level up a bit before being able to siege. While waiting for the money/experience to purchase heroes, your enemy could easily gain complete map control, multiple bases or even defeat you. Or they could be really annoying (Gondor) and go for massed towers with the upgraded arrows.

They definatly need an easier way to siege, but for the life of me I can't figure out what. If you add rams/catapults then they lose their uniqueness (same with buildable ents). If you lower the cost of the siege-heroes then it'll be unbalanced etc

I chose the same. I find that Glorfindel's rank 9 Light of the Noldor plus Arwen's Bruinen power will take down gates (unless Gondor has Strengthened gate) so that works out well. The only downside is that all these powers are at high levels and sometimes that can be hard to do if your enemy simply aims for these heroes. There is probably a good way to fix this but overall I think it's ok.

[Hearach]

*_* You voted In you're own poll.
But anyway, I voted 3 - 2 - 4
I like it and I don't think it's hard to acumalate a good enough force for siege. Or maybe I make others do too much........

This reminded me of a match that made me laugh a lot!

[Lauri]

I didn't vote.... Played 3 games, 2 I were elves, and 1 I were Rohan. Didn't get to siege anything

arg, now I wanna play it

[adummy]

arg, now I wanna play it

you shouldnt play lauri you need to work on your mod. you post here more than you post there

Edited by adummy, 26 December 2006 - 10:18 PM.

[Thorontur]

*_* You voted In you're own poll.

I don't see why not...

[Elvenlord]

2,2,4
Their siege is awesome vs FoL(and FoD), ents can destory gates/towers while eagles destory units
Ummmm...... I consider Galadriel, Elrond and Glorf to be already siege heros........ so I just put 2, no more
Their siege is unique and wouldn't chage it unless someone came up with a really good idea

[Olorin]

Celeglin has gone through it multiple times and it has worked out balanced for him. The heroes (Galadriel, Glorfindel, Elrond, and Arwen) can attack gates/buildings/towers with their special abilities, although they have to be at a high level. Usually in my games with the Elves, I wait it out a bit (thus utilizing the Elves main strategy; late game BOOM!), so I can purchase all my heroes or, if I want to cut it short, purchase the summon Eagles and Ents powers. By then I'll have a nice leveled up force (which you'll need, by the way) which I can storm the castle with.

In other words, you'll have to wait your battles out, playing on the defensive, before you can go and attack and lay siege to your enemy.

Edit: but in TLT maybe one of the Elven factions could have like a ballista or something. In the Elvenstar mod (just using it as an example of siege, nothing more) they have battering rams and ladders; not exactly Elvish but they probably had some devices somewhere in their history.

Edited by Olorin, 27 December 2006 - 12:48 AM.

[Lauri]

work on me own mod? nah, that's boring, it's part time halted *hints to TFA*

aanyways, I GOTTA PLAY MORE TEA!! the first times, it wasn't great, but when I just played..... ahh, been a long while since a mod gave me a great time! and since I noticed yall talked about Glorfindel beeing the second best elf in the world, I just waited untill I could afford him... played against a medium mordor, because I've played to litte (can't played more against medium though) and I had two scout hordes, took over half of mirkwood, and then I had orchards and a scout-building-thingy anyways, I then purchased Glorfindel. And I have to say, That's my freaking favorite hero ever ever!! I prefer his unarmored skin, but when it comes to the armor, I have knights, so I just pair him up with those and Arwen, and I have an army on Ctrl+1 I also loved Celeborn, and the other heroes were cool too still, Glorfindel's nr1, then Celeborn, then the rest.

BOT, on that map, against Isen, it wasn't much of a siege, but I could try out the destructive powers of them. Found out that Galadriels siege thingy were abit lame, with the FX's and such but still, very cool power.

Arg, can I get enough of Glorfindel?

Also, IF the elves would get a siege machine, I would go for ballistas. Elves should have range weapons still, that would weaken the enemy's defence, and maybe make them non-stopable. I really like the siege as-is

And, for the first time Cel....

GREAT MOD!!!! I'll even bet that this is going to be better than RA, if it ever comes out *cries in fear of Dain Bloodaxe*

[Olorin]

Well, at least it's going to better than the RA's Elves, not that they're bad (they're actually quite good in terms of skins, units, heroes, etc.), it's just that I prefer Celeglin's. And the ballistas are the best type of siege machine for the Elves. As for Glorfindel, he's the best hero (my favourite character, in line with Olorin and Fingolfin).

[Celeglin]

My thoughts...

Against Isengard and Mordor, there's almost no difficulty in siege. Fire arrows alone absolutely shred up those buildings (especially with the Galadhrim's power and the speed of the Scouts). Eagles take care of Sentry Towers easily. If you want to get fancy: Throw Down Its Walls + Loudwater Fury + Hawk Strike/Double Shot/Wounding Arrow will destroy any citadel.

Rohan isn't overly difficult either. Galadriel can take down their gate in around 10-15 seconds, or you can use Elrond/Glorfindel + Arwen to bring it down instantly (Elrond should be able to take down gates on his own, but there have been strange problems getting him to do so). Fire arrows tear everything apart once you get past the gate. Gondor stuff is a little more difficult as the buildings are made of stone (thus a little harder for fire arrows to bring down). The Battle Towers (or whatever they're called... wall-upgrade archer towers) can present a problem in either case, but the key is to distracting them from hitting your archers and heroes by sending in Eagles, Spearmen, or FU Knights first (if you flood the enemy after breaking the gates, they'll be hard-pressed to target all those archer towers properly, especially since they will all automatically target the Eagles). If Gondor has Wall Trebuchets, Eagles snap them up easily as well.

Other hints...
Ents: Duh. Let them do what they do best. If you don't have Galadriel or a wall breaking ability, they make quick work of gates and can of course take down any other building.
Blessings of the Golden Wood: Summoning the Elven Mists into the centre of a base will destroy any and all defenders, halt unit production for a good 20-30 seconds, and damage most buildings by at least a quarter their full hit points.
Blademaster Abilities: Thranduil and Haldir should be in the thick of things with Strength of Oropher and Elven Swordsman respectively.

And don't give me that crap about having to wait around to get the expensive siege heroes and powers, thus losing all map control. If you've lost map control while holding off against Gondor or Rohan (you don't need anything but Fire Arrows and possibly Heavy Armor when sieging the Evils), then it's your own dang crappy strategy. Gondor isn't much quicker to get siege capabilities than the Elves, and Rohan is definitely no faster (5000 on an economy plot to get Ents vs 5000 at your citadel to get Galadriel... Hmm).

The only base I haven't been able to storm and demolish in 30 seconds with an Elven army is a FU Gondorian base... Because I've never had the opportunity to try. But I'm sure that if you distract and then leave the Arrow Towers be, focusing on the buildings that will bring the base down with it (thus ignoring all those fancy upgrades), you should be able to storm them just as well.

[adummy]

not to mention you could build 4 statues. 4*150=900 and that lowers every hero's price down 20%. Since Galadriel cost 5000 as normal it is 5000*0.2=1000, 5000-1000=4000. thus you save 100 just to buy galadriel alone, glorfindel goes down to 3800 (i think).

[Olorin]

Usually I end up having about 4 statues before I start buying the big guns.

[Thorontur]

I still don't like the idea of Elves being forced to attack castles by the gate only. With the other factions there was strategy in going for the walls so they wouldn't have to worry about wall trebs or towers shooting their soldiers when they're flooding the base. Could Elrond, Arwen, Galadriel and Glorfindel be able to use their abilities against walls in an upcoming update?

[adummy]

I think Elrond and Glorfindel can attack walls, but dont quote me on that.

on a side note: i will be gone until the 30th so have a great week without me guys

Edited by adummy, 27 December 2006 - 03:06 PM.

[Lauri]

we'll miss you adummy :(

aanyways, let's get to the sad stuff, I don't think that elves should be a tear down the walls thing. Unless it's an instant tear down. But still, I always like the look on the gate when it's destroyed

*runs of to play agains more more more!!! *