97 replies to this topic

[Thorontur]

I think Elrond and Glorfindel can attack walls, but dont quote me on that.

No lol.

I think an Elven ballista is a great idea but it'd take some extensive research to ccome up with a siege machine that looks somewhat Elven.

[swan]

Even adding a ballista would completely change Elven siege. I have several ideas how to improve it:

1. Give Elves one Eagle, as a hero, cost 2000.
2. Give Elves a power called "Crushing roots", 6 PP, second tier. deals huge siege damage to buildings on the small area, maybe like 2 walls sections
3. Rams and ladders are quite good idea. Usefull only while attacking fortress, won't make Elves overpowered (can you imagine Elves with ballistas, but not while sieging? Just like Isengard, but with much better units). But rams should be more medieval, cost more than those Mordor's and Isengard's, be slow and have high defence, and have wooden covers, for example.
4. New unit - Elven Saboteur (Elven Guearilla sounds strange ). Just like Sentinels, extremely stealth unit, unable to attack, but able to open the gate.But I'm afraid it's impossible to code :(

[Celeglin]

I think an Elven ballista is a great idea but it'd take some extensive research to ccome up with a siege machine that looks somewhat Elven.

No dammit. How many times do I have to tell you people that I'm not adding in elven siege weapons this time around. Figure out new strategies, I've already given you some. You want to go for the walls? Use Ents, just like Rohan would. Use Galadriel's Visions ability to siege a fortress with summons while not having to move your own army a hair. Try Thranduil's Wounding Strike on a building. Use Celeborn's and Legolas's summons to boost your firepower.

[Thorontur]

I think an Elven ballista is a great idea but it'd take some extensive research to ccome up with a siege machine that looks somewhat Elven.

No dammit. How many times do I have to tell you people that I'm not adding in elven siege weapons this time around. Figure out new strategies, I've already given you some. You want to go for the walls? Use Ents, just like Rohan would. Use Galadriel's Visions ability to siege a fortress with summons while not having to move your own army a hair. Try Thranduil's Wounding Strike on a building. Use Celeborn's and Legolas's summons to boost your firepower.

Alright alright.

I really like swan's Crushing Roots idea. But Elven siege weapons would just be too gay in that they don't look Elvish at all and that's not the style that Cel wants.

[Olorin]

In TLT ballistas would be acceptable (for Eriador). Swan's Crushing Roots idea is really good, could be something for Rhovanion and the current mod. But rams and ladders: . The Elven Sabotuer sounds interesting, but as you said extremely hard (if not impossible) to code. But the best way to siege with the Elves is to wait it out a bit, wait until you've got a few powers, a few good heroes, then you can go for a solid attack that will be difficult to counter.

[zimoo]

And during that time of waiting your opponent is staying still, getting no upgrades/units/heroes/defences I assume?

[Celeglin]

And that is NO different from having to wait for 5000+ resources to come up so you can get Ents with Rohan. NO FREAKING DIFFERENT. Quit whining, and accept that you'll have to play a little differently than normal. They're getting upgrades? Pfft, don't forget that YOU also are getting upgrades, and since the Elves siege methods are not soley made for siege, you'll be able to do much more than just sit and wait until you're ready to take a castle. Galadriel, for example, is certainly more useful in a variety of situations (massive heal, full map view, CRAZY ATTACKS OF DEATH) than 4 summoned Ents or a pile of balista or trebuchets. Honestly...

[Thorontur]

And that is NO different from having to wait for 5000+ resources to come up so you can get Ents with Rohan. NO FREAKING DIFFERENT. Quit whining, and accept that you'll have to play a little differently than normal. They're getting upgrades? Pfft, don't forget that YOU also are getting upgrades, and since the Elves siege methods are not soley made for siege, you'll be able to do much more than just sit and wait until you're ready to take a castle. Galadriel, for example, is certainly more useful in a variety of situations (massive heal, full map view, CRAZY ATTACKS OF DEATH) than 4 summoned Ents or a pile of balista or trebuchets. Honestly...

Oi don't yell so loud it hurts my ears. :(

[Olorin]

Well, of course your opponent's active, you just have to hold off his attacks, launch a few skirmishes, make your enemy think that you're not doing anything, until you are finally prepared to assault his base, OR you can lure his army away from his base, and then summon the Ents/Eagles. You could even send Legolas and Celeborn in and use their summons to defeat the enemy. You just have to spend your resources wisely, acquire what is needed at the time while saving up for what is needed in the future.

Edited by Olorin, 28 December 2006 - 05:11 AM.

[swan]

Ent Summon ---> pulling the walls down ---> VICTORY

I know: easy to say, harder to do, but after breaking wall enemy has no chance to stop Elven army. And to start siege you have to take the map over, so I guess that problem's with money shouldn't appear.

But I still think that giving Elves one Eagle as a hero would be nice.

Edited by swan, 28 December 2006 - 07:20 PM.

[Olorin]

Nah, the Elves have a lot of heroes as it is now, giving them the Eagle would just topple the whole thing. But maybe make the Eagles/Ents summon 1 point cheaper.

Edited by Olorin, 29 December 2006 - 01:51 AM.

[Elvenlord]

IT IS FINE! NO NEED TO CHANGE!! If you are having trouble attack everything but their castle, and, unless they are camping, you should have enough pp. If they are camping, take map control and get galadriel and upgrades.


There, easy guide to Elven seiging




CRAZY ATTACKS OF DEATH!!!!!

[Olorin]

I said maybe make the summons 1 point cheaper. But you're right with that as well.

[Thorontur]

IT IS FINE! NO NEED TO CHANGE!! If you are having trouble attack everything but their castle, and, unless they are camping, you should have enough pp. If they are camping, take map control and get galadriel and upgrades.


There, easy guide to Elven seiging




CRAZY ATTACKS OF DEATH!!!!!

No need to caps argue. It will take ppl a LONG time to get used to sieging w/ the Elves, and they will complain at first. Just give it time...

[adummy]

if you are having troubles seigeing with the elves, my advice to you is: DONT PLAY THE ELVES. it works fine the way it is. in fact, its better than some other armies seige. you summon your ents and have them attack gate/towers/walls. have summon eagles attack trebuches and buildings. have mist in the center of their army killing almost all of them, upgraded or not. then you send your amry in and they clean out everything else.

[Olorin]

Fast, simple, and effective.

[Elvenlord]

Why do you need to get used to it? Rohan's is basicly summoning ents.
Besides, summoning people is easier then building, you just left click then right click

[Celeglin]

My concept behind the Elves siege lies in the idea that they only held around 4 sieges in history that we know of: Noldorin siege of Angband, Vanyar destruction of Angband, Last Alliance siege of Barad-Dur, Celeborn and Galadriel's destruction of Dol Guldur. Out of thousands of years, they only held these four sieges, and the first wasn't even successful so wasn't taken into my thoughts. Two of them (final destruction of Angband and the destruction of Dol Guldur) absolutely wiped out the enemy with minimal losses. So, combining these two key elements from the lore I came up with the basis for the Elves siege: slow to get started, but when it starts it's almost unstoppable.

[Taralom]

i've tried some other mods too. and i saw one mod which had ladders and rams.
and they made it look quite elven.

Celeglin, you said that in thousand years they only had 4 sieges. but i must say that ingame i do things which wouldn't happen in the real book.

for example. i attack rhun with a very small army of gondorians.

that wouldn't happen in the book. Although if i remember it correct they did after Aragorn became king....
but i have to check that.

Edited by Taralom, 29 January 2007 - 06:43 PM.

[Lauri]

you don't prove anything with that comment They did attack Rhun after the fall of Sauron