181 replies to this topic

[Paladin58]

Perhaps the AI just can't work right when it isn't fighting a human player? I'm looking at some of this, and that's the first thing that comes to mind for me. Now, of course, I know jack squat about how AI works, but I decided to guess.

[Adolphus Perrywinkle the 13th]

Btw, by far the hardest of the AI personalities is now STEAMROLLER. My GDI AI ally was set to that and he absolutely owned the Nod. I just sat back @ my side and did zero. He mass-solider and zone trooped the bastard! WOW!

Nod AI still was good but could not stop such an onslaught of troops.

So it is as suggested, then. It's only that one specific personality that's got messy build-orders. Well, I'm glad it's not only me, then. Thudo, do you have what it takes to fix this mess? Meaning such things as the correct tools or whatever EA releases, etc? If not, any idea about when such things could be released? I'm kinda contemplating uninstalling the game until then; especially if it's not long due...

Edited by Adolphus Perrywinkle the 13th, 01 April 2007 - 08:00 AM.

[thudo]

Thudo, do you have what it takes to fix this mess? Meaning such things as the correct tools or whatever EA releases, etc?

Well noone can do anything until EA unlocks the game for modding. I tried examining in detail where the AI scripts are but for pete's sake their archived in there. Unless it can be extracted I cannot work on any of those suggestions.

Btw, I played as Scrin last nite for the first time, set my ally as a GDI Hard-Random, then the Nod enemy AI as Hard-Random and guess what? Better game. My GDI player surprisingly was kicking butt. Try it.. Dunno if it something to do with me being Scrin. More testing as usual.

[Adolphus Perrywinkle the 13th]

For the record; I just had a 1-on-1 fight against GDI, (as GDI myself), and they didn't do any better than they did as an ally.

[thudo]

Try a network game 1vs1 on yer machine. I'm also finding the AI doesn't tech fast enough. I mean, takes em forever to get even a Advanced Tech center.. this for all factions. There needs to be balance here. Indeed, there are areas to improve. Just have my hands tied as I cannot get at the Ai scripts! Grrrrrrrrr!

[Adolphus Perrywinkle the 13th]

What's a "network game"? And how is playing one going to help?

[thudo]

Try to create a Network game without connecting to anyone. See if the results are different. At least in a network game you can sell yer MCV and watch the AIs attack each other. Just tried it and it works.

[Adolphus Perrywinkle the 13th]

Okay... I'll get right on it.


*EDIT* Done. I even set the AI to "Steamroller". He still got mashed. Only difference being that instead of endlessly spamming useless Grenadiers, he was endlessly spamming Missile Squads, and focused more on building Predators than APCs. Still no other units out than APCs, Missile Squads and Predators, though. Yay.

Edited by Adolphus Perrywinkle the 13th, 01 April 2007 - 03:02 PM.

[Adolphus Perrywinkle the 13th]

I don't get this. EA was apparently so teardropping, endlessly proud of this AI of theirs, bragging about it in every interview, even posting it in the "Features" -part, but yet we get this...? It just doesn't make sense in any single way. I mean, EA not focusing too much on Skirmish AI, I'd understand. Nothing would suprise me less. But firstly announce how 1337 their AI is and then suddenly don't deliver seems just... weird.

Thus I'm assuming that the GDI uselessness is because of a bug rather than sloppyness.

Edited by Adolphus Perrywinkle the 13th, 01 April 2007 - 05:49 PM.

[thudo]

Adolphus - does the GDI AI Hard-Balanced if played on the same map but on FFA rather than alliance in a Network Game, does that make a difference? Start a Network Game > Create > all teams by themselves > 4 Player map > choose only 2 AIs let them face each other. One GDI Hard-Balanced and the other Nod Hard-Balanced. When you play, sell yer MCV right away and watch the game. What happens?

[Adolphus Perrywinkle the 13th]

We weren't allies. T'was but a free-for-all. I simply sold my MCV and watched the carnage.

[thudo]

Sorry then d00d.. thats not my experience. Had another game with 2 GDI AIs vs 2 Nod AIs (all on Hard-Random) and it was GDI's day. Basically, GDI spammed Preds, APCs, and troops. Teching was slow as frick'n shiet.

AI really needs to tech to get to heavier vehicles and I NEVER SEE BUGGIES - what the hell? I damn well wish I could get access to the code! Grrrrrrr!

Still.. I'm noticing GDI kicking Nod now with Preds, APCs, and troops. Some Orcas were called in as well but its nowhere a good mix that I want to see and much earlier on. There is some work to do thats fer sure but alas, without a way to open the byatch up.. can't do much.

Sorry then d00d.. thats not my experience. Had another game with 2 GDI AIs vs 2 Nod AIs (all on Hard-Random) and it was GDI's day. Basically, GDI spammed Preds, APCs, and troops. Teching was slow as frick'n shiet.

AI really needs to tech to get to heavier vehicles and I NEVER SEE BUGGIES - what the hell? I damn well wish I could get access to the code! Grrrrrrr!

Still.. I'm noticing GDI kicking Nod now with Preds, APCs, and troops. Some Orcas were called in as well but its nowhere a good mix that I want to see and much earlier on. There is some work to do thats fer sure but alas, without a way to open the byatch up.. can't do much.

[Adolphus Perrywinkle the 13th]

You said something about "asking EA"... can this realistically be done?

[thudo]

Already taken care of Mr. APW!

[Hogo]

Cool this sounds good i am interested in look at the AI also im going to see if i can tweak it a bit

[Adolphus Perrywinkle the 13th]

What's an APW? Should I feel insulted?

[thudo]

Thanks Hogo.. I could use yer help and insight into how to better effectively script/plan better Skirmish AI. I wrote my observations on the latter part of Page4 of this thread. EA needs to do its part now.

Btw, anyone figure out where the actual \DATA folder is supposed to be in C&C3? I have an ini file thats supposed to be in \data\ini\default, for example, but then game never uses it. Complicating things.. C&C3 has multiple folders so it could be \CORE or \RetailEXE or even in the root of C&C3. Arrgghhh..

@Adolphus - its yer abbreviated name ya silly.

[mrchris]

I have witnessed the Nod AI building an MCV after it lost it's first, but this was not long before the remaining base expansion was swarmed with Venoms (which ironically the area they were in they dropped a nuke right below them, taking the 15 or so down with most of the base)

And yes, GDI has a fascination with building APCs and witnessing some minor jamming with brutal steamroller, a nice chunk of their forces lost to a brutal balanced's ion cannon, then balanced cleaned up the remainder of the base in my GDI FFA 4 players observation.

I also have noticed turtling AI go dry on funds, as well as others sometimes. Hopefully some configuration settings will let them have more resources RA2 style but not as insane fundwise.

AI really needs to get it's act together with base defenses covering every possible entrance, especially turtle AI (he had like one AA turret while the rest were lasers)

Edited by mrchris, 02 April 2007 - 03:21 AM.

[Hogo]

Thanks Hogo.. I could use yer help and insight into how to better effectively script/plan better Skirmish AI. I wrote my observations on the latter part of Page4 of this thread. EA needs to do its part now.

Btw, anyone figure out where the actual \DATA folder is supposed to be in C&C3? I have an ini file thats supposed to be in \data\ini\default, for example, but then game never uses it. Complicating things.. C&C3 has multiple folders so it could be \CORE or \RetailEXE or even in the root of C&C3. Arrgghhh..

@Adolphus - its yer abbreviated name ya silly.

Im going to do some observations as well and do each test 3 times just to make sure but i tested lastnight and the NOD Balanced Brutal got slaughtered by the GDI AI.

1 Thing i did notice is that the Ai used a heap of jugganaughts but the nod AI did not use any avatars what so ever and the AI really does not respond to base threats very fast.

I will keep my eyes open for more

And i am happy to help

[Phil]

Wow, looks like you guys really plan to mess with this AI. Is this going to be just some personal AI tweaking or should this become a bigger project, i.e. a mod in itself?