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Master Thudo on the AI for CNC3.


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#41 Twilus

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 08:45 PM

Oddly enough, i went against a hard balanced, i didn't get pwned..
I quickly captured the 2 spikes and built 3 harvesters (in case one get's killed) and built lot's and lot's of those laser turrets. They seem to hold their forces off while my obelisks pick at them. Before he built his SW, i built two upgraded avatars, so i sent them at it. The Avatars barely destroyed it, both died. Soon after i built my nuke and 7 minutes later of holding off their attacks i nuked his side base. Seening as how his main base is never really defended, i sent 4 stealth tanks (low on money). 2 of them died but i still beat him ;)

Edited by Twilus, 21 March 2007 - 08:46 PM.

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#42 Nighthawk

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 08:55 PM

It seems to be easier to defeat the AI when playing as Nod. I managed to kill a Medium Balanced with an Avatar, a Venom (that I only used for the reflect power), and 2 Beam Cannons. The Seed Tiberium power, combined with a well-aimed Catalyst Missile, seem to sort out bunched up buildings quite easily. If only it spread further ;)...
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#43 thudo

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 09:32 PM

Nope.. thats EXACTLY the playstyle of the Medium and up AI. If I see anymore movies of people taking 53mins to defeat the C&C3 demo AI on Brutal-Balanced WITHOUT experiencing the same as I did then I will freak.

The Skirmish Ai on my C&C3 demo is simply amazing. It knows the best counters and, once the superweapon shows up, it totally screws ya up and forces your focus. What yer experiencing is exactly what I am.
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#44 Phil

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 09:41 PM

Maybe the AI adapts to the player even more than we thought :D
The better you are, the more impossible to defeat it. So you stand better chances if you're a bad player. I bet I could play against brutal and beat it then ;)

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#45 Twilus

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 10:22 PM

Maybe the AI adapts to the player even more than we thought :D
The better you are, the more impossible to defeat it. So you stand better chances if you're a bad player. I bet I could play against brutal and beat it then ;)


I disagree! ;)
I easily beat it, my unit kill death ratio was 12.43 :D
It really liked using falme tank rushes on me...
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#46 thudo

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 10:44 PM

Yes but I'd love to see you win as GDI against a Hard-Balanced Nod AI. Further, if the AI does not build a superweapon within 10-15mins, doesn't air bomb you til you break half of the keys on your keyboard (not including Suicide rushes and rear Scorpion attacks), and uses Stealth Gens everywhere in his base making attacking him ONE HELLEVA CHORE then your game session is invalid. I've seen too many games filmed by people where the above never happens and immediately dismiss em as "AI script errors".

I have never ONCE in 10 games with the C&C3 AI on HARD not seen him do the above. Once or twice of Medium but on HARD he does it all.
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#47 Hostile

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 10:51 PM

I have to agree with thudo. I played hard a number of times now and you have to hit fast and hard and even than good luck. I have yet to beat them. It's a really amazingly tough AI, and it is said to be totally scripted, no cheats.

I don't remember having this much fun playing and I only have one map and two factions. ;)

#48 Twilus

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 05:13 AM

Yes but I'd love to see you win as GDI against a Hard-Balanced Nod AI. Further, if the AI does not build a superweapon within 10-15mins, doesn't air bomb you til you break half of the keys on your keyboard (not including Suicide rushes and rear Scorpion attacks), and uses Stealth Gens everywhere in his base making attacking him ONE HELLEVA CHORE then your game session is invalid. I've seen too many games filmed by people where the above never happens and immediately dismiss em as "AI script errors".

I have never ONCE in 10 games with the C&C3 AI on HARD not seen him do the above. Once or twice of Medium but on HARD he does it all.


Actually, i was GDI. But oddly enough, the AI did NOT use air rushes or build stealth gens. I was confursed myself...
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#49 Master Windu

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 11:33 PM

If you were playing with NOD with a handicap, the larger it is then they don't attack as much (I think the handicap cuts down on their resource production by whatever number you choose).

Or maybe it actually does adjust really well to your weaknesses and decided that air attacks weren't the best way to win.
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#50 thudo

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 08:34 PM

in the player options screen, set an AI for one of the players (e.g. player 1). then play the game, and be sure to be that player. you will still have control, but if you just sit back and relax the AI will take over for you

Just curious - you do this in Skirmish or Multiplay? In Skirmish, there is no way to change Player1 since its set for the Human Player. Anyone? I'm getting ready to start having CNC3 AI vs AI battles so I can more easily witness some interesting behavour and quickly.

I need to absolutely have all AI battles in CNC3.
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#51 Guest_Spartan0220_*

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 03:19 PM

can stealth gens block each other out?

#52 Nighthawk

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 03:46 PM

No, not in the demo, as for the actual game, I doubt it.
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#53 Adolphus Perrywinkle the 13th

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Posted 31 March 2007 - 12:20 AM

Fuck the AI. Fuck it so bad. This is what I posted on their forums:




:mellow: I'm not amused. I'll get right to it:

Yesterday, I've sat up my first 2v2 battle on Skirmish, on the map "Blackwater Brawl". I played as GDI, my ally was also GDI, and both enemies were Nod. All the AIs were set to "Hard - Balanced". Crates are on, and we start out with the default resources. (1000 or so, I think.)

So I'm just playing about, minding my own buisness, confident that the (supposed) excellent AI would ensure that my ally knew what he was doing half the time. I've already played versus Nod, and their AI was great.

After a while, Nod attack. I fight them off with some trouble. I check to see what my ally's been doing - and I curse out loud.

This is the enemy army at that point in the game:

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As they attack that tower-thingy, I see that my ally has not been doing squat compared to the Nod. This is his base and army at approx. that point in the game:

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What. The. Deuce?! :huh: The few times I had actually seen him fight, he'd be building a very few Riflemen, some APCs that he never filled with infantry, and some Grenadiers. Maybe one or two tanks. All helplessly outnumbered as compared to the Nod forces, who'd by then attack with a large selection of vehicles, infantry and flamethrowers. No, no, no, no, no. :xcahik_:

I've retried five times, changing starting positions and everything. Same result. 'The hell? What is wrong here? Is the GDI AI just monstrously juvenile, or is the faction somewhat underpowered so that they couldn't afford any more? When I exited the game in utter freaking disgust, I noticed that my GDI ally's statistics were lower than anyone elses', too! I'm getting increasingly exasperated here. ;)

I'm tired, dissapointed and angry. Ugh.

When I played the next 2v2 map on the list, they performed equally horrible there. The trend repeats itself. The Nod has got multiple Black Hand infantry squads out, with several tanks and aircraft. At that point, GDI has only built a few tanks, three Grenadier squads, and otherwise builds lots of APCs that they still never fill with infantry. As soon as the GDI gets a few Orcas out, it's all too late. Ugh! I'm extremely frustrated right now. ;)





I figured It'd make more sense to post it here... Thudo, you can't come fast enough.

What is the GDI AI like when you play with/against it?

Please give me some input. Am I doing something wrong? How can I get it right? Is this a well-known bug?

Sigh. Thanks in advance.

Edit: Screenshots are messed up. Does anyone know how to remedy this?

I'd be happy to give a replay if you'd like, but I don't think the game saves replays...

Edited by Adolphus Perrywinkle the 13th, 31 March 2007 - 01:49 AM.


#54 thudo

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Posted 31 March 2007 - 12:48 AM

Thats not my experience d00d..

I play, for example, 2vs1 Me(GDI)+Scrin(Hard-Balanced) vs Nod (Hard-Balanced).

My Scrin ally is quite capable.

I have heard problems with the GDI AI so I'll look at it. I'll make the enemy AI as GDI and then play as Nod with a Scrin ally. Will report back.
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#55 Adolphus Perrywinkle the 13th

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Posted 31 March 2007 - 01:35 AM

You'll see more about what they are(nt) doing if you play with them as an ally... choose a 4-player map, leave the 4th slot closed, pair yourself up with a GDI ally and choose the enemy starting position to be as close as possible to the GDI starting position and as far away from you as possible. That way you can just watch GDI and the enemy fight it off, (or hardly fight at all in the case of GDI), without interference. Probably a good way to learn how to control your gag-reflex. Aargh...

Edited by Adolphus Perrywinkle the 13th, 31 March 2007 - 01:51 AM.


#56 thudo

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Posted 31 March 2007 - 01:50 AM

But why would an enemy GDI AI be different then say a Scrin ally AI? AI is AI and uses the same scripts. If this is the case, and a GDI AI Ally is script-defective.. then EA needs to know asap. I'll check.
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#57 Adolphus Perrywinkle the 13th

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Posted 31 March 2007 - 02:17 AM

Maybe they've got their build-order messed up or bugged or something. I'm not pondering why the GDI AI is bad or slightly defect, I'm just saying that it most definately is, at least in my honest experience. :xcahik_: If it's only their build order, maybe you can work your magic on it? And since you say you've heard about some problems with the GDI AI before, it kinda shows it's not just me being on heavy LSD for no apparent reason while playing or something...

Believe me, I'd like nothing more than to be dead wrong about this, but sadly, things point to the contrary.

Edited by Adolphus Perrywinkle the 13th, 31 March 2007 - 02:32 AM.


#58 Hostile

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Posted 31 March 2007 - 02:31 AM

I played a four player game with no allies, every man for them selves. I had a GDI rusher and 2 nod balanced. The GDI steamrolled the nod players than rolled right over me also.

So maybe it's balanced that needs work. Rusher certainly doesn't.

#59 Adolphus Perrywinkle the 13th

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Posted 31 March 2007 - 02:35 AM

I've tried with Rusher as well. Not Steamroller, Guerilla or Turtler, though. I didn't really see any very different tactics at all. They still got eaten up and crapped out by the enemy.

For the record: We're all running on v1.02, right?

#60 thudo

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Posted 31 March 2007 - 02:38 AM

Yes I had a GDI AI ally on Hard-Balanced and Hard-Random and the Scrin still outproduced our armies. I mean, the GDI AI was ok and did produce armies but the Scrin attacked very early. Scrin was set to Hard-Balanced. I'll try the GDI AI ally as Hard-Rusher next.
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