Jump to content


Photo

Good campaign- army of Isengard question


  • Please log in to reply
47 replies to this topic

Poll: How army of Isengard should be constructed!?

Should the Isengard army be composed of individual units or of hordes?

You cannot see the results of the poll until you have voted. Please login and cast your vote to see the results of this poll.

How large of an army do you want the Isengard army to be?

You cannot see the results of the poll until you have voted. Please login and cast your vote to see the results of this poll.

How many waves do you want the above army to be composed of?

You cannot see the results of the poll until you have voted. Please login and cast your vote to see the results of this poll.
Vote Guests cannot vote

#21 Florisz

Florisz

    The Young Reindeer

  • Project Team
  • 2,322 posts
  • Location:The Netherlands

Posted 19 April 2009 - 03:19 PM

When you've got archers in the vanilla game, and you go to attack laborers at a Lumber Mill, the entire battalion attacks the single unit. It's major overkill and unrealistic. If there are single units, they are treated as a battalion by ranged units and the ranged battalion will only attack one battalion at a time. Unless you have a way to get around this, everyone will be slaughtered if Isen has individual units. They've got to be battalions.

EDIT: I just realized this topic is crazy old and that this post probably doesn't matter ;)


THen you should also give Rohan single units...
Posted Image

#22 yams in a can

yams in a can

    Friend of the Right Side

  • Members
  • 391 posts
  • Location:Henrico,Virginia

Posted 22 June 2009 - 03:26 PM

well when you add a couple waves each time, make a very small amount of time for each wave to come so they would almost over run you practically the whole game

Posted Image
To the professor, John Ronald Reuel Tolkien.


Posted Image
Posted Image

-yams in a can


#23 yams in a can

yams in a can

    Friend of the Right Side

  • Members
  • 391 posts
  • Location:Henrico,Virginia

Posted 22 June 2009 - 03:28 PM

for the units, you can do what rj rotwk did,you have small bfme 1 battalions,but you can combine them to make giant hordes,or you could add a button on the palantir which allows the battalions to split up into single units

Posted Image
To the professor, John Ronald Reuel Tolkien.


Posted Image
Posted Image

-yams in a can


#24 Anri1

Anri1
  • Members
  • 176 posts
  • Location:Ukraine, Kiev

Posted 20 July 2009 - 04:56 PM

I voted for 10 000, hords and 17-20 waves. And actualy I quite like yams in a can's idea about using RJ's sistem for units, or the palantir button could be nice too(if possible)
"Sons of Gondor, of Rohan, my brothers! I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me. A day may come when the courage of Men fails…. When we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship. But it is not this day! An hour of wolves and shattered shields when the age of Men comes crashing down. But it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth I bid you stand, Men of the West!"-King Ellessar

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

http://us.mnzeo.2y.n...wimoovevio.html - that's fun ;)

#25 Dant

Dant

    title available

  • Members
  • 937 posts

Posted 21 July 2009 - 12:24 AM

Numbers of unit should be 10000 and 17-20 wave..that my vote. :p
Posted Image

#26 MirkwoodArcher

MirkwoodArcher

    Sharpshooter of Mirkwood

  • Members
  • 1,280 posts
  • Location:Greenwood the Great (Mirkwood)
  •  Hooded one
  • Division:Revora
  • Job:PR and Recruiter

Posted 21 July 2009 - 12:34 AM

I vote individual units as, like Rob38 said, it will increase the reality when they climb up ladders.

I vote 10,000 units. Make it BIG!! (By the way, does Tollkien ever mention in any of his writings how many Uruks there were?)

I vote 17-20 waves. Make it last, but more spaced out so that the players don't get crushed within the first two rounds.

Edited by MirkwoodArcher, 21 July 2009 - 12:35 AM.

Posted Image

#27 Dant

Dant

    title available

  • Members
  • 937 posts

Posted 21 July 2009 - 04:01 AM

Individual units for some and 75% are horde unit will be best way(in my opinion).

i agree with Mirk idea for enemy wave atleast it won't end up with 10 horde of Uruk on wall at the sametime :p
Posted Image

#28 MirkwoodArcher

MirkwoodArcher

    Sharpshooter of Mirkwood

  • Members
  • 1,280 posts
  • Location:Greenwood the Great (Mirkwood)
  •  Hooded one
  • Division:Revora
  • Job:PR and Recruiter

Posted 21 July 2009 - 04:07 AM

Yes, because if there are going to be 10,000 Uruks, I sure wouldn't want them all to be crawling up my wall before I got a chance to defend myself. :p
Posted Image

#29 Devon

Devon

    Dark Nerd of the Sith

  • Global Moderators
  • 5,886 posts
  • Location:Colbert Nation
  • Projects:RJ RotWK, Twilight of the Republic, HDLH
  •  T3A Chamber Member
  • Division:Community
  • Job:Global Moderator
  • Donated

Posted 21 July 2009 - 04:39 AM

I would. Constantly being on the defensive makes it epic :p No long pauses while you wait for a new wave, just keep a constant stream coming.

yodasig2.png
My political compass
There's a story that the grass is so green...what did I see? Where have I been?


#30 MirkwoodArcher

MirkwoodArcher

    Sharpshooter of Mirkwood

  • Members
  • 1,280 posts
  • Location:Greenwood the Great (Mirkwood)
  •  Hooded one
  • Division:Revora
  • Job:PR and Recruiter

Posted 21 July 2009 - 04:41 AM

Maybe a constant stream, but not a HUGE stream. :p
Posted Image

#31 Dant

Dant

    title available

  • Members
  • 937 posts

Posted 21 July 2009 - 04:52 AM

Maybe Isengard constant stream should come with different type like infantry,warg and siege weapon that always support attack force.
Posted Image

#32 Masterbadeend

Masterbadeend

    Yellow_Pete

  • Project Team
  • 797 posts
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Projects:RCMOD
  •  Mapper @ the RCMOD

Posted 30 August 2009 - 08:02 PM

Or if you have to retreat a bit more often. That's what I missed in Ea's version. When you fended off a wave, you could simply make 10 new bataljons and you were ready for the next. :crazed:

Posted Image
Posted Image
Thanks to MirkwoordArcher for this great signature and the lovely duck.
Posted Image


#33 Slavic

Slavic
  • Members
  • 49 posts

Posted 04 September 2009 - 10:44 PM

Please read my comments on each poll question before answering this topic.

1. Should the Isengard army be composed of individual units or of hordes?

This question arises from the problem I got with seige ladders for Isengard. Righ now, when a horde climbs a siege ladder, they must all climb it at once. This means that a large number of units can climb the walls extremely fast and it looks unrealistic. By using individual units, I can severly reduce that and make it look much nicer and realistic. Now, the downside with that is that it will be diffcult to script an army composed of single units, and you could only target one unit at a time instead of a horde of units. But, it would be kind of neat to see a massive army of individual units and it would make the attack look so much better and much more like the movies.

2. How large of an army do you want the Isengard army to be?

Note that my map is going to be highly interactive so there's going to be a lot going on. If you choose a large army, don't worry about it getting to repitive and boring because I have a lot of cool and interesting things to put in my map.

3. How many waves do you want the above army to be composed of?

I want to see how you want the army of Isengard to be set up. If you choose no waves, please tell me how you think that would be possible without blowing up the computer :p

Feedback is valued so answer honestly and post your respones to the poll below :p


1. Hordes. I think this is a general consensus

2. I recommend not following the film, but actually going by the book. There were more than 10,000 fighters in the Battle of Hornburg. The 10,000 were just the Orcs themselves. This does not include the Wildmen of Dunland or the Warg Riders, or the Berserkers, which were unnamed auxilliary units (hundreds, perhaps?).

3. How about an interesting compromise? Neither waves nor all units at once, but both. The original mission made it seem as if several (can't remember how many) hosts attacked Helm's Deep, when it was just one big host. There should be no timer between the waves (thereby also removing that unreality), but Isengard's fronts will obviously attack the first, then those behind, etc. etc...and only a part of the Army of Isengard would be on the map in the first place.

Edited by Slavic, 12 September 2009 - 12:55 AM.


#34 Archon

Archon

    Ethereal Chaos

  • Members
  • 555 posts
  • Location:United States
  • Projects:Wars of Arda mod
  •  Expert Marksman

Posted 11 September 2009 - 02:40 PM

Sounds good.
Only problem with so many units is it will look odd when they are all crowded together on the wall. I think its unfixable though.
_______Posted Image_______Posted Image

#35 Guest_Guest_Slavic_*_*

Guest_Guest_Slavic_*_*
  • Guests

Posted 12 September 2009 - 12:37 AM

Sounds good.
Only problem with so many units is it will look odd when they are all crowded together on the wall. I think its unfixable though.


I'm not sure what you mean. In my case it wouldn't at all be much more crowded than it already is.

Forgive me, but I have got a proposal to make. Now don't attack me, this is not something I say "do this, do that", but just something I want to hear everyone's thoughts on. I am always a fan of accuracy (I first disliked the idea of Elves in Hornburg, since this is such an unrealistic and unbelievable addition in the film adaption of the story, but now that I see what sort of a terrific job is done in the map, :) ), so I must make a suggestion. How about leaving Eomer inside Helm's Deep as one of the heroes like Aragorn and Theoden, which charge out in the "Glorious Charge" when the Hornburg gate is breached. Instead, Erkenbrand should arrive with Gandalf.

This would not only make the map more interesting and story-abiding, but actually more practical for the BfMe game itself. Aragorn's just a fighter, but it is Eomer's and Theoden's abilities boosted together that actually make the Glorious Charge indeed Glorious as it's supposed to be. On the other hand, Erkenbrand should me like a weaker Eomer (as a fighter), but his unique abilities should reflect those from the story - he could gather up people very quickly to form up resistance and he is the commander of Helm's Deep, the one who had its defenses constructed and the one who actually administers the region Hornburg itself is located in the name of the King. The fact that he knows the entire place completely and especially the fortifications could be transferred into some ability.

What does everyone think about this (btw, I am downloading the mod to play it - haven't tried it out yet - but from the website it seems that there's no Eomer at all in this map? http://helmsdeeplast...ohanheroes.html )

P.S. Is there a possibility to script that once a unit starts climbing the wall it is broken into individual men as units? This represents the broken ranks fairly...if such a script could be made.

P.P.S. Just two more questions (already overlong post enough to bore even me), is this mod still under production (last update of the website was back in 2007) and does everyone fully agree with the presence of Eowyn in this map as a hero?

#36 Devon

Devon

    Dark Nerd of the Sith

  • Global Moderators
  • 5,886 posts
  • Location:Colbert Nation
  • Projects:RJ RotWK, Twilight of the Republic, HDLH
  •  T3A Chamber Member
  • Division:Community
  • Job:Global Moderator
  • Donated

Posted 12 September 2009 - 01:31 AM

Mods still WiP...so there's no download yet. The heroes there are only the ones that have been reworked in some way I think.

yodasig2.png
My political compass
There's a story that the grass is so green...what did I see? Where have I been?


#37 Slavic

Slavic
  • Members
  • 49 posts

Posted 12 September 2009 - 01:37 AM

Mods still WiP...so there's no download yet. The heroes there are only the ones that have been reworked in some way I think.


So there are still reinforcements with Gandalf and Eomer?

#38 Rob38

Rob38

    Believer of Hope

  • Hosted
  • 3,567 posts
  • Location:USA
  • Projects:Helm's Deep Last Hope
  •  One who is not afraid of new challenges

Posted 13 September 2009 - 10:04 PM

2. I recommend not following the film, but actually going by the book. There were more than 10,000 fighters in the Battle of Hornburg. The 10,000 were just the Orcs themselves. This does not include the Wildmen of Dunland or the Warg Riders, or the Berserkers, which were unnamed auxilliary units (hundreds, perhaps?).

3. How about an interesting compromise? Neither waves nor all units at once, but both. The original mission made it seem as if several (can't remember how many) hosts attacked Helm's Deep, when it was just one big host. There should be no timer between the waves (thereby also removing that unreality), but Isengard's fronts will obviously attack the first, then those behind, etc. etc...and only a part of the Army of Isengard would be on the map in the first place.


I'm still debating whether to add other non-uruk units such as Warg Riders and Wildmen. It may add a little extra spice to the enemy army. :p

As for your other suggestion, this seems like the most logical and realistic step to take. Timers would be removed and while there still will be waves, they will come in a more steady and consistent stream. In other words, uruk-hai will be on the map and attacking at all times when the battle begins. This will force the user to multitask by replenishing troops and also fighting the urul-hai. :p

Sounds good.
Only problem with so many units is it will look odd when they are all crowded together on the wall. I think its unfixable though.


This will be addressed by having uruks take longer to climb the ladders. In the vanilla BFME, hordes would run up the ladder in half a second. Looks rather silly if you ask me. :xd: They will now climb ladders at a realistic pace now. This will make the number of uruks on the wall at any given time much smaller. ;)

Forgive me, but I have got a proposal to make. Now don't attack me, this is not something I say "do this, do that", but just something I want to hear everyone's thoughts on. I am always a fan of accuracy (I first disliked the idea of Elves in Hornburg, since this is such an unrealistic and unbelievable addition in the film adaption of the story, but now that I see what sort of a terrific job is done in the map, :p ), so I must make a suggestion. How about leaving Eomer inside Helm's Deep as one of the heroes like Aragorn and Theoden, which charge out in the "Glorious Charge" when the Hornburg gate is breached. Instead, Erkenbrand should arrive with Gandalf.

This would not only make the map more interesting and story-abiding, but actually more practical for the BfMe game itself. Aragorn's just a fighter, but it is Eomer's and Theoden's abilities boosted together that actually make the Glorious Charge indeed Glorious as it's supposed to be. On the other hand, Erkenbrand should me like a weaker Eomer (as a fighter), but his unique abilities should reflect those from the story - he could gather up people very quickly to form up resistance and he is the commander of Helm's Deep, the one who had its defenses constructed and the one who actually administers the region Hornburg itself is located in the name of the King. The fact that he knows the entire place completely and especially the fortifications could be transferred into some ability.

What does everyone think about this (btw, I am downloading the mod to play it - haven't tried it out yet - but from the website it seems that there's no Eomer at all in this map? http://helmsdeeplast...ohanheroes.html )

P.S. Is there a possibility to script that once a unit starts climbing the wall it is broken into individual men as units? This represents the broken ranks fairly...if such a script could be made.

P.P.S. Just two more questions (already overlong post enough to bore even me), is this mod still under production (last update of the website was back in 2007) and does everyone fully agree with the presence of Eowyn in this map as a hero?


First for Erkenbrand, this has been brought up before and I am really not in favor in adding him to the mod. I just feel he would be a little too redundant to Eomer and it adds another hero to an already decked out Rohan hero army. :p I'm just not yet convinced that's he's needed in the battle ;)

My apologies, the website is really outdated and I have been meaning to redo it again. Just have not gotten the time to do it. In the meantime, you can check the most recent updates here. :good:

As for the ladders, they will climb up slower but I do not know if it's possible to break them up to individual units when they begin climbing. It's something that I will certainly explore. I still have quite some testing to do with the ladders so nothing if final yet. :)

Finally, Eowyn is my favorite character in LotR and she will be in my mod. :p

signature_group1.gif

 

16821.png


#39 yams in a can

yams in a can

    Friend of the Right Side

  • Members
  • 391 posts
  • Location:Henrico,Virginia

Posted 10 October 2009 - 09:02 PM

I have an idea for having a lot of units in the mod/map. For the Uruk army, have a lot of battalions in a part of the map where archers can't reach them, then let them all come to the wall, and get replaced, either uruks coming from outside the map, or just appearing there.

Posted Image
To the professor, John Ronald Reuel Tolkien.


Posted Image
Posted Image

-yams in a can


#40 yams in a can

yams in a can

    Friend of the Right Side

  • Members
  • 391 posts
  • Location:Henrico,Virginia

Posted 11 October 2009 - 03:22 AM

Whoops, thought this was another thread!

Posted Image
To the professor, John Ronald Reuel Tolkien.


Posted Image
Posted Image

-yams in a can





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users