146 replies to this topic

[Nazgûl]

EDIT: Matter decided! We will NOT port to RotWK, for numerous reasons.
1) The insane work load of adapting the codes!
2) RotWK... welll... sucks!
3) We only need a few items from the expansion, and if you read this thread you'll see how we (I) came to the conclusion of using them, despite it not officially being "okayd". I'm doing this for the same reason RJ is using stuff from BFME1 - to make the mod better. And as far as I know, EA likes both RJ and Robnkarla, hehe. As do I! =)
4) Noone can really argue that EA is losing anything on this. Most fans hate RotWK, and those who liked or never liked BFME2, might like it better now, and sales (on whatever copies still exist?) should increase, even if sales on RotWK goes down. But that has hardly anything to do with SEE

This is what we will use...

• Some of the new spells to expand the Spellbook/range/variety! The avalanche would be awesome for Saruman for instance...
  
• One or maybe two units, like the Wolf-riders! They should fit into Moria...
  
• One hero; Hwaldar (to make the Dunland leader Wulf for Isengard)!
  
• 2 or 3 structures; The Mill for EvilMen (Harad), the Angmar Forge for Rhûn, and maybe the Wolf Pit for Moria...

Original post/topic below...
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As most of you know... RotWK has been chosen as a non needed expansion since way back in production. The reasons for this has been clearly stated many times... And I know that MANY of you still want SEE to be for RotWK. I have repetedly refused cause I think the expansion would destroy the look of the mod with the blue edgy theme, the different menus and the lack of shell map and things like that. RotWK do have some units and spells however, that I would like to get my hands on, but it's mainly the problem of the blue theme that has stopped me...

But since a somewhat new member in the forums gave me some interesting information, I felt it was time to discuss this once more... (yes actually, beleive it or not)

He says it really simple to revert all things back to BFME2 look... menus and all. All I know is that I read an article from Stealthsnake where it looked like 200 hours of work with loads of borring details... But if this is true, I'm defenitely interested...

The thing is, that IF we should go to RotWK after all, we'd get:
- a 7th faction that could be made into EvilMen...
- Loads of more voices, models, skins, art, FX, powers and so on... (that we could convert into suitable things)...

So it would NOT mean that I would make the game play like RotWK. It would simply mean getting more material to use for SEE as it is now. And if we can get rid of the RotWK look, this is highly interesting. I might even buy the expansion for Sûl in that case, since he hasn't got it...



This is just a thought though...

Edited by Nazgûl, 12 August 2008 - 05:55 PM.

[Mordor Slayer]

But, but... I refuse to buy it ! Ah well, if it's for you, I guess it's ok. First priority would be to KILL the Angmar faction though. If that's done, then I'm with you. Plus the giant werewolf. And the Rohan spearmen.

[Nazgûl]

Angmar would naturally be converted to EvilMen in that case...

[Lauri]

hehe, yeah, all the new units for the factions would have to go
and Angmar... well, I guess you could take the wolf riders now, hehe but still, Angmar should go, and get Evil Men in it You could also just swap it for starters, using the existing buildings and stuff.... for the time beeing of course

all in all, I'm a go for this after V

[Juissi]

I would say that this should only be done after the mod is pretty much finished (Beta V) because Im pretty sure that alot of people would be disappointed if the final SEE wouldnt be availeable for BFME2. But for me, it really doesnt matter because I have both

[Nazgûl]

Hehe good Lauri, but if I can't get Sûl interested it's pretty much impossible though

Once again, the biggest reason would be to do EvilMen for REAL with stats, CaH and all - no bugs. We could also use a lot of stuff but reskinned and reworked. Basically nothing would be used as it is and NO WAY I would trade the Warg Riders you made for the wolfs. But maybe use wolfs as loose packs... Stuff like this. =)

If we get a go from the team - I'd do it for Beta V, not after it. We have several months dedicated to that version anyway... and the longer we wait the more trixy it would get, I think... =p



Allthough Juissi do have a point as well... if we should cosider those tht do NOT want this...

[clonecommand]

I'd say GOOOOOO!!! DO IT!!! Yes!

You could just call it quits on the BFME2 one, and leave it up for d/L, or you could work on both at the same time.

I also personally hate the Angmar faction, so definetly replace it.

But I wouldn't want the complete set of new units scraped. The models could be used for other things. Or just reskin them

I'm personally begging for this, sooooo....

[Nazgûl]

But I wouldn't want the complete set of new units scraped. The models could be used for other things. Or just reskin them

Thats exactly what I said

[clonecommand]

As you would (*might*) be a adding another evil faction....I wouldn't midn seeing Arnor <----Just a suggestion...

[Clement]

No clonecommand!

RotWK allows us to add one faction! Not two!

[CapnAstroSponge]

I like that idea, means more people noticing it, and perhaps more people working on it...

Then again, it also means i'd have to buy a DVD drive(my computer lacks one) and the game, but it'd be worth it.

So, all power to ya!

[Nazgûl]

- Yes, no Arnor... only EvilMen, as TDP said...

- Yeah, and it would mean even more support towards EA since you have to buy RotWK as well

But first of all I need to be sure that Sûl would approve since he's my main coder and SEE would die without him, and secondly I must be 100% sure that all things menus can be reverted back to BFME2 look =p

[Mordor Slayer]

Ok, I just couldn't sleep because of this topic . Have you thought about:

The cons:

- The campaign: I don't want to play the ROTWK campaign, it's even farther away from the movies then TBFMEII! Unless we import the ones from TBFMEII (and preferably TBFME) into the game. I think Argolis did that. Plus if we delete the Angmar faction, the campaign becomes useless.

- The Angmar faction: if you leave it, you'll have to balance it and add new units. If you scrap it, I think we'll get a lot of complaints from some players. I know it's your mod, but maybe this will stop them from downloading it.

- The Balance (!): a whole list of patches has been released for the expansion, and unless you can convert the changes you made, I think you'll have to code everything from start...

- The competion: you know the Age of Men mod, right? They already have a 7th faction, also the Evil men, with new buildings and units. Plus they have a new campaign, and the sky view. Honestly, and this isn't to insult you or something, if I had bought ROTWK before I discovered this mod, I would have gone with AOM, because a new campaign is just so awesome.

- The price: now everyone has to move on to ROTWK... And that will cost money. I planned to buy MedII: Kingdoms and The Witcher this september .

- The support: by buying this crappy expansion, we'll support EA even more... Not a good thing .

The pros:

- Units can move in formation.

- WOTR is slightly better.

- Another faction slot.

- New anims, skins, FX, ...

- Slightly better CAH, but nobody uses it anyway, so it doesn't count.

[Lauri]

well, he does have a point.... scrapping Angmar would kinda make them buy your mod, as it is Angmar that makes RotWK... still, I'd rather play Evil Men than Angmar I only ever loved the WK on that faction, but his powers are a mess, and they suck...

[Allathar]

Crap - I just found out that while the whole menu overwrite in 2 minutes thingie works perfectly, you'll have to overwrite EVERYTHING in order to make it work

What does this mean? Well, that has one consequence: at the stats screen there are still only 6 factions displayed

So, I'm trying to get it to work that the stats screen displays 7 factions - hard but not impossible me thinks.

[The Best Guest]

as long as you get rid of angmar and replace it with evil men you have my vote for yes

[clonecommand]

I personally think Angmar is a stupid, useless, overpowered/weak (weird, I know) faction. A waste of cash. But whether you leave it or not, I don't care.

I don't understand this business about not being able to display more than 6 (or so) factions....Other mods do it. RJ added Arnor and Rohan...

[Smeagolfan24]

If looking for new factions is what you're after, then I would search the books. I know, I know that this is based off the movies, but honestly, Evil Men or Rohan is not your only option. It basically is if you refuse to use the books, but that's your choice.

Time to defend the honor of EA a little:

I don't want to play the ROTWK campaign, it's even farther away from the movies then TBFMEII!

Maybe that's because they'd gotten license to the books? They weren't meant to be based on the movies.

a whole list of patches has been released for the expansion

One patch: 2.01.

Just some things to consider.

[Nazgûl]

Ok, I just couldn't sleep because of this topic . Have you thought about:

The cons:

- The campaign: I don't want to play the ROTWK campaign, it's even farther away from the movies then TBFMEII! Unless we import the ones from TBFMEII (and preferably TBFME) into the game. I think Argolis did that. Plus if we delete the Angmar faction, the campaign becomes useless.
> First of all, you can play NO campaign in SEE, since the Campaign mode was not supported in MarksMod to begin with... :( I don't want to play the RotWK campaign either, I rather have the BFME1 campaign, but that would make all the "T3A Cops" go haywire... This conversion would NOT be to gain the campaign, but go gain the extra faction, and that is NOT Angmar intended

- The Angmar faction: if you leave it, you'll have to balance it and add new units. If you scrap it, I think we'll get a lot of complaints from some players. I know it's your mod, but maybe this will stop them from downloading it.
> For the billionth time, I will NOT keep Angmar (in case we do this) I'm not worried about complaints either, in the end the mod should be a reflection of the modders intention, not the players. The players and fans should like the mod for what is it, not for what it could be, if you catch my drift... =p

- The Balance (!): a whole list of patches has been released for the expansion, and unless you can convert the changes you made, I think you'll have to code everything from start...
> One patch! But yes, it would be hard work I guess.. very hard. I tried it WAY back though before Sûl came with his UBER-coding that left me paralyzed as a coder, lol. SO I guess it would be hard now, but back then, it was nothing - it just ran directly under RotWK?

- The competion: you know the Age of Men mod, right? They already have a 7th faction, also the Evil men, with new buildings and units. Plus they have a new campaign, and the sky view. Honestly, and this isn't to insult you or something, if I had bought ROTWK before I discovered this mod, I would have gone with AOM, because a new campaign is just so awesome.

> I see no competition, cause I do not compete! I want people to like SEE for what is is (once again) and not for it being "better than another mod". I also do think that certain moda are better than others off course, but I seldom compare openly since that only causes people to be upset or sad or something negative. I however do not mind if people do not like SEE, I know there is a bunch that DO, but in the end, I do this mod for me actually and I'm just thrilled about all that like it. Those that don't, well then you have a lot of other mods to choose from. Not only AoM. My personal favurite RotWK mod is RJ, along with AoM and other great productions. Other mods in my likeing is naturally RA and TEA, but also WoA and several more. They are all responsible for inspireing me to mod in the first place

And also, no team member is at ANY time BOUND to this team, even though you have made a REMARKABLY good job at Beta Testing =) You are free to change team at any time my friend =)

AoM i my second alliance and I'll be giving them Falling Deaths and stuff and we'll be getting Ships and other things. RJ mod has gotten a lot of skins and we get the Skies and Camera view. These are win/win situations for us all, as long as we don't compete And none of us care if mods look and act the same in some apects, cause a mod will always difer from another mod when you get down to all the million details

- The price: now everyone has to move on to ROTWK... And that will cost money. I planned to buy MedII: Kingdoms and The Witcher this september .
> Well, I'm sorry... (again IF we do it)

- The support: by buying this crappy expansion, we'll support EA even more... Not a good thing .
> I beg to differ! I love EA, I just hate this game in it's original state. If I can help EA earn more money this way, I'm happy, cause they let us mod their games

well, he does have a point.... scrapping Angmar would kinda make them buy your mod, as it is Angmar that makes RotWK... still, I'd rather play Evil Men than Angmar I only ever loved the WK on that faction, but his powers are a mess, and they suck...

> I think there is more that makes RotWK, but maybe in theory that's right. Still EA get to sell more games = good thing! And about WK in RotWK, have you seen his SIZE? And that of Rohan spearmen... LOL!

Crap - I just found out that while the whole menu overwrite in 2 minutes thingie works perfectly, you'll have to overwrite EVERYTHING in order to make it work What does this mean? Well, that has one consequence: at the stats screen there are still only 6 factions displayed So, I'm trying to get it to work that the stats screen displays 7 factions - hard but not impossible me thinks.

> Ouch, well that's what I kinda figured from the start when you sent the PM, but please do check But what you mean is that if we use BFME2 menus the game engine will lock it to bfme2??

I personally think Angmar is a stupid, useless, overpowered/weak (weird, I know) faction. A waste of cash. But whether you leave it or not, I don't care. I don't understand this business about not being able to display more than 6 (or so) factions....Other mods do it. RJ added Arnor and Rohan...

> Yes, but they do not alter the menus...

If looking for new factions is what you're after, then I would search the books. I know, I know that this is based off the movies, but honestly, Evil Men or Rohan is not your only option. It basically is if you refuse to use the books, but that's your choice.

Time to defend the honor of EA a little:

I don't want to play the ROTWK campaign, it's even farther away from the movies then TBFMEII!

Maybe that's because they'd gotten license to the books? They weren't meant to be based on the movies.

a whole list of patches has been released for the expansion

One patch: 2.01.

Just some things to consider.

> I am NOT looking for new factions... I am looking for a good way to add EvilMen eventually...
I also doubt that this is a book licence. This is mainly a movie licence AND books I would say. Both Tolkien Enterprises and New Line are "credited".


NONE of this matters though as long as the team is not united on this. So we'll see. NO Sûl - no SEE!

[Garrison Nomad]

^^i think more than that...and Angmar's construction was just....eww. Though Thrall Masters were a great diea IMO...and should maybe be implemented somewhere else (reskinned, of course).

I was actually just about to ask you whether or not you were going to port the game...considering RotWK has a lot of potentially good models to use. I'm all for evil men, but......what about actually redoing Angmar? Angmar has walls, buildings....it'd be a mistake to scrap it completely, unless u wanted to use it's barracks for evilmen. I mean....a REAL angmar faction, with REAL olog-hai and REAL orcs and REAL evil Dunedain...now, that'd be impressive. Don't know why Gundabad orcs look the way they do...considering they'd be goblins...but that's for another conversation.

Anyways, if you do go to RotWK, i kinda agree that you should look at all the faction possibilities, before you make any final decisions.