157 replies to this topic

[Kaleb Graff]

I like the analysis of stormie unit strength. However, we must keep it in perspective. I think that more then 3-5 elite stormie units is a mistake. Also, the rebels should have somthing similar to this. The imperials had hundereds of legions, so having more then a few 501st units makes them overpowered. The royal guard is a very good idea, too. We could require Vader to produce 501st units, and the Emperor to produce guardsmen. I would classify stealth stormies in the same way as those two.

[skie9173]

I think that more then 3-5 elite stormie units is a mistake.

do you mean having that many different types of elite stormies or just being able to build that many of various groups of elite stormies?
i'd agree with both really but i believe that any from of elite stormies should require a specific hero that they are associated with to be able to buil them.
like Vader for 501st or Blackhole for shadowtroopers
another idea (not sure if it is implemental) is that these special units could be attached to the hero or enter land combat along side the hero as a representation of them being escorts of the hero.

[Kaleb Graff]

By elite stormies I meant 501st. Your idea about escorts could work, but I think that most people would like for them to be independent. The need for a centeral hero for any type of special stormie is what I said earlier.

[Sausage]

I like the analysis of stormie unit strength. However, we must keep it in perspective. I think that more then 3-5 elite stormie units is a mistake. Also, the rebels should have somthing similar to this. The imperials had hundereds of legions, so having more then a few 501st units makes them overpowered. The royal guard is a very good idea, too. We could require Vader to produce 501st units, and the Emperor to produce guardsmen. I would classify stealth stormies in the same way as those two.

Well Dark Troopers are just as overpowered yet can still be overwhelmed by relatively cheap units of rocket soldiers. Considering how long it takes to build them in comparison it's a great offset and balanced. Plus to use a balanced Dark Trooper unit you need to mix the three, which are all still vulnerable and take a long time to build.

It makes sense that the extensive training of the 501st would make them take far longer to recruit than other units. They are still infantry so you could roll over them with a tank. You couldn't just land the 501st on a planet without support and hoped for the best. Well you probably could on very loosely defended worlds but the same could be said of using normal infantry.

So to balance this make the build time that of the AT-AT for a single Battalion and the cost the same as the AT-AT. When you combine the cost and time to build when you loose a Battalion it's going to sting so people can't rush with them.

You could add a research element to make it even more difficult to build. You must research the 501st unit before you can build it. Which could lead to possible upgrades but I don't think that's necessary.

Anyway I'm just pointing out that there are more ways to balance a unit than to simply make an entire Legion a couple of units. Of course you could just build a single unit and leave it at that. You are correct that the Empire had thousands of Legions of stormtroopers and the 501st was just one of them. In game terms each Company of stormtroopers could be thought of as an entire Legion onto itself.

EDIT:

Ultimately Star Wars is so huge that to properly display ground combat you seriously need the latest Total War engine to pull it off. This way maps would be massive with thousands of units on screen with highly detailed textures. Take a look at the Total War website and poke around. Look up Total War Empires which is the latest one and look at the detail. They can do that with thousands of men in complex settings on screen at the same time.

That would be a true treatment for Star Wars ground combat. A true treatment of space combat would be hands down Sins of a Solar Empire. A combination of the two would make a Star Wars fan's head explode in delight.

Edited by Sausage, 31 March 2008 - 07:42 PM.

[Kaleb Graff]

I fail to understand what you are getting at. The whole point of the 501st is as super stormtroopers. They are not supposed to be a new type of unit. They are kind of like some of the minor heroes early in the upgrade tree in space, more powerful, but not really unique units. The reason for the restriction is not just to prevent them from being too powerful, but also because elite units are harder to train. The 501st is somewhat similar to modern Rangers, and would serve the same purpose.

[Sausage]

I fail to understand what you are getting at. The whole point of the 501st is as super stormtroopers. They are not supposed to be a new type of unit. They are kind of like some of the minor heroes early in the upgrade tree in space, more powerful, but not really unique units. The reason for the restriction is not just to prevent them from being too powerful, but also because elite units are harder to train. The 501st is somewhat similar to modern Rangers, and would serve the same purpose.

And I fail to understand what that has to do with a failure to understand what I'm saying. Could you be specific in what I'm saying that is wrong so that I can try to address it?

[Kaleb Graff]

It's not that what you are saying is wrong. The whole point of the 501st is as elite light infantry. They are not super units. I earlier compared them to rangers, and I still think this is right. There will likely be other elite units. They will be better at what they do then the regular units, but probably limited in number and more expensive. Still, they will not be that much superior to the basic units. Think hero units in space PR.

[Sausage]

It's not that what you are saying is wrong. The whole point of the 501st is as elite light infantry. They are not super units. I earlier compared them to rangers, and I still think this is right. There will likely be other elite units. They will be better at what they do then the regular units, but probably limited in number and more expensive. Still, they will not be that much superior to the basic units. Think hero units in space PR.

I don't disagree with this at all and it's what I said before.

[Kaleb Graff]

Well, I guess I didn't understand you. So, any other suggestions for imperial units?

[Kalo Shin]

I like the analysis of stormie unit strength. However, we must keep it in perspective. I think that more then 3-5 elite stormie units is a mistake. Also, the rebels should have somthing similar to this. The imperials had hundereds of legions, so having more then a few 501st units makes them overpowered. The royal guard is a very good idea, too. We could require Vader to produce 501st units, and the Emperor to produce guardsmen. I would classify stealth stormies in the same way as those two.

Well Dark Troopers are just as overpowered yet can still be overwhelmed by relatively cheap units of rocket soldiers. Considering how long it takes to build them in comparison it's a great offset and balanced. Plus to use a balanced Dark Trooper unit you need to mix the three, which are all still vulnerable and take a long time to build.

If anything, Dark Troopers are UP'ed for canon, but Balanced for EAW's perspective.

a single P3 could whipe out bases :\.

[Kaleb Graff]

If anything, Dark Troopers are UP'ed for canon, but Balanced for EAW's perspective.

a single P3 could whipe out bases :\.

There was only one P3. Still, I agree. They were nasty in canon. They should probably be heavily restricted, so as to prevent them from destroying the rebellion. They could be limited, as described above.

[Clubby]

Maybe if you don't construct Dark Troopers, they just come as a garrison with the Arc Hammer? (Wait, that's in the game, right? My POS computer keeps on crashing (Exception!) for some reason.)

[Kaleb Graff]

Dark troopers should probably be buildable, but I would think that they should have limited numbers, like the 501st, and other elite units.

[Badwolfwho]

Storm Commandos

They could play like Infiltrators in the Zann Consortium except without the corupt ability maybe a slightly cheaper sabotage to make up for it or two or three commandos per unit. Or they could be a hero unit as Sarkli's guard. Sarkli himself would be armed with a fast shooting blaster that on average would do about the same as Boba Fett. He could have the grenade and the 'escape death' ability in which if he is about to die he is pulled from the battle to fight another day if used in time or maybe summon LAAT in which he summons the LAAT from the Geonosis mission in Rogue Squadron 3 that acts as a minor bombing run. In space he could fly an Imperial Escort Carrier with the abilities of escape death and perhaps to release Tie Hunters.

APC

Could be a replacement for the current Imp transport

[Kaleb Graff]

They could play like Infiltrators in the Zann Consortium except without the corupt ability maybe a slightly cheaper sabotage to make up for it or two or three commandos per unit. Or they could be a hero unit as Sarkli's guard. Sarkli himself would be armed with a fast shooting blaster that on average would do about the same as Boba Fett. He could have the grenade and the 'escape death' ability in which if he is about to die he is pulled from the battle to fight another day if used in time or maybe summon LAAT in which he summons the LAAT from the Geonosis mission in Rogue Squadron 3 that acts as a minor bombing run. In space he could fly an Imperial Escort Carrier with the abilities of escape death and perhaps to release Tie Hunters.

APC
Could be a replacement for the current Imp transport

I like the idea of storm commandoes, but I think you are obsessing over Rogue Squadron III. Most of the things you suggest are impossible (I'm pretty sure we can't make new abilities.) The APC is OK, but there are more canon transports out there.

[Badwolfwho]

They could play like Infiltrators in the Zann Consortium except without the corupt ability maybe a slightly cheaper sabotage to make up for it or two or three commandos per unit. Or they could be a hero unit as Sarkli's guard. Sarkli himself would be armed with a fast shooting blaster that on average would do about the same as Boba Fett. He could have the grenade and the 'escape death' ability in which if he is about to die he is pulled from the battle to fight another day if used in time or maybe summon LAAT in which he summons the LAAT from the Geonosis mission in Rogue Squadron 3 that acts as a minor bombing run. In space he could fly an Imperial Escort Carrier with the abilities of escape death and perhaps to release Tie Hunters.

APC
Could be a replacement for the current Imp transport

I like the idea of storm commandoes, but I think you are obsessing over Rogue Squadron III. Most of the things you suggest are impossible (I'm pretty sure we can't make new abilities.) The APC is OK, but there are more canon transports out there.

Sorry didn't know you couldn't make new abilities

[Kaleb Graff]

They could play like Infiltrators in the Zann Consortium except without the corupt ability maybe a slightly cheaper sabotage to make up for it or two or three commandos per unit. Or they could be a hero unit as Sarkli's guard. Sarkli himself would be armed with a fast shooting blaster that on average would do about the same as Boba Fett. He could have the grenade and the 'escape death' ability in which if he is about to die he is pulled from the battle to fight another day if used in time or maybe summon LAAT in which he summons the LAAT from the Geonosis mission in Rogue Squadron 3 that acts as a minor bombing run. In space he could fly an Imperial Escort Carrier with the abilities of escape death and perhaps to release Tie Hunters.

APC
Could be a replacement for the current Imp transport

I like the idea of storm commandoes, but I think you are obsessing over Rogue Squadron III. Most of the things you suggest are impossible (I'm pretty sure we can't make new abilities.) The APC is OK, but there are more canon transports out there.

Sorry didn't know you couldn't make new abilities

It's OK. Still, we are trying to avoid video game units. Storm Commandos still work, though.

[Badwolfwho]

How about giving the Empire some Bounty Hunters Bossk, IG-88, Dengar etc and to even it out on the other side give the Rebels some Smugglers Lando, Talon Karrde etc

Bossk and IG-88 would be easy since they are already programmed in the game

[Kaleb Graff]

How about giving the Empire some Bounty Hunters Bossk, IG-88, Dengar etc and to even it out on the other side give the Rebels some Smugglers Lando, Talon Karrde etc

Bossk and IG-88 would be easy since they are already programmed in the game

Lando is in the works. I don't know about Karrde (he was more of a mercenary). The imp bounty hunters would work.

[Badwolfwho]

How about giving the Empire some Bounty Hunters Bossk, IG-88, Dengar etc and to even it out on the other side give the Rebels some Smugglers Lando, Talon Karrde etc

Bossk and IG-88 would be easy since they are already programmed in the game

Lando is in the works. I don't know about Karrde (he was more of a mercenary). The imp bounty hunters would work.

He did fight against the Imps though and while it was not for the NR he did help out during the Thrawn Crisis and the Hand of Thrawn Duology.