yes it is a rather poor quality sketch but i kinda liked the concept, loose as it is. hey at least i'm trying to throw ideas out here. i mean people should be able to post what they want, or so i once heard...
anyway...cloud cars and skyhoppers are pretty standard things in the sw universe though the effectiveness of a skyhopper is doubtable. i straight-out said the other things were pretty much based on very lose or ambiguous canon. these were just a few new ideas no one had presented yet. i never read Starfighters of Adumar actually, i just remembered reading about the fighters once before and figured i'd present it. and like i said i don't even think the planet is in the mod is it? i don't remember it at least.
Rebel/New Republic Planetary Units
Started by Casen, Feb 23 2008 10:17 PM
124 replies to this topic
#22
Kalo Shin
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Posted 15 March 2008 - 06:02 PM
yes it is a rather poor quality sketch but i kinda liked the concept, loose as it is. hey at least i'm trying to throw ideas out here. i mean people should be able to post what they want, or so i once heard...
anyway...cloud cars and skyhoppers are pretty standard things in the sw universe though the effectiveness of a skyhopper is doubtable. i straight-out said the other things were pretty much based on very lose or ambiguous canon. these were just a few new ideas no one had presented yet. i never read Starfighters of Adumar actually, i just remembered reading about the fighters once before and figured i'd present it. and like i said i don't even think the planet is in the mod is it? i don't remember it at least.
You make it seem as if we're giving you a hard time...?
#23
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Posted 15 March 2008 - 07:01 PM
One thing that we should remember when setting this up is how the rebels fought. They did not have the strength to fight the imperials head-to-head, and they shouldn't in the mod. Thus, some things like the T4-B tank seem uncharacteristic of them. They need to be specialized in infantry and light vehicles, like the freerunner and ULAV.
#24
skie9173
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Posted 15 March 2008 - 07:43 PM
forgive me, that wasn't my intent guess i was just being defensive. sorry
that's true and important Kaleb. Also we got to remember that part of PR's mod explores the possibility of the rebels (and eventually the new republic) developing units that were meant to take on the imps in a head on battle. that's one of the greatest beautiful traits of PR work. he gives us freedom we don't typically have in games like this. we get to pick what our side specializes in. i mean look at the options PR has given us for developing or space fleets lol. i do like your idea about the rebel saboteur
that's true and important Kaleb. Also we got to remember that part of PR's mod explores the possibility of the rebels (and eventually the new republic) developing units that were meant to take on the imps in a head on battle. that's one of the greatest beautiful traits of PR work. he gives us freedom we don't typically have in games like this. we get to pick what our side specializes in. i mean look at the options PR has given us for developing or space fleets lol. i do like your idea about the rebel saboteur
There is no emotion, there is peace. There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity. There is no death, there is the Force.
There is no passion, there is serenity. There is no death, there is the Force.
#25
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Posted 16 March 2008 - 02:17 AM
that's true and important Kaleb. Also we got to remember that part of PR's mod explores the possibility of the rebels (and eventually the new republic) developing units that were meant to take on the imps in a head on battle. that's one of the greatest beautiful traits of PR work. he gives us freedom we don't typically have in games like this. we get to pick what our side specializes in. i mean look at the options PR has given us for developing or space fleets lol. i do like your idea about the rebel saboteur
I wasn't thinking about the development aspect of PR. It is a good point about technology being developed. I just figured out that the defiler has a galactic sabotage ability that would be good for the saboteur. The most annoying thing about the Zann Consortium is the way that they fight more like the rebels then the rebels do. So many of the corruption abilities could serve very well as abilities for the rebels. Their basic idea until after Endor was to create covert insurrections instead of capturing planets. However, based on something Phoenix said somewhere, I don't think that's possible. Still, the rebels really should focus on light vehicles and infantry down the tech tree, only getting into the heavier stuff at the top. They should have better infantry, because it is cannon that the specforces were good soldiers, even if the secforces weren't as good.
#26
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Posted 19 March 2008 - 07:49 PM
I disagre that the rebel infantry sould be beter than the stormtrooper(unless suficiently trained)that's true and important Kaleb. Also we got to remember that part of PR's mod explores the possibility of the rebels (and eventually the new republic) developing units that were meant to take on the imps in a head on battle. that's one of the greatest beautiful traits of PR work. he gives us freedom we don't typically have in games like this. we get to pick what our side specializes in. i mean look at the options PR has given us for developing or space fleets lol. i do like your idea about the rebel saboteur
I wasn't thinking about the development aspect of PR. It is a good point about technology being developed. I just figured out that the defiler has a galactic sabotage ability that would be good for the saboteur. The most annoying thing about the Zann Consortium is the way that they fight more like the rebels then the rebels do. So many of the corruption abilities could serve very well as abilities for the rebels. Their basic idea until after Endor was to create covert insurrections instead of capturing planets. However, based on something Phoenix said somewhere, I don't think that's possible. Still, the rebels really should focus on light vehicles and infantry down the tech tree, only getting into the heavier stuff at the top. They should have better infantry, because it is cannon that the specforces were good soldiers, even if the secforces weren't as good.
they key to rebel tactics at least early shoud be that they can use a re-done defiler to create resistance cells that are planet-specific (yes, a real pain, but really only most populated worlds, and they could be generic mixed race aliens)
if one "upgrades" the defiler, then the indgenous forces would be priogresively better armed/numerous.
these forces would be able to defet many imperial garrison forces, but would have little chance in a planet where you are builind AT-AT's or varients.
#27
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Posted 20 March 2008 - 07:14 PM
I understand what you mean when you say that the rebels should be weaker then stormies, but I disagree. In space, the rebels have weaker capitol ships, but stronger fighters. However, on the ground, the rebels should be stronger in something, and vehicles are out of the question. I do like your suggestion about the re-worked defilers, and would like to see somthing similar myself, but I don't think that it's possible. Also, the rebels had two kinds of ground troops, special forces, or specforce, and sector forces, or secforce. The secforce is probably similar to the forces on the Tantive IV, or the basic troops in EAW. The SpecForce is similar to the infiltrators, but comes in a wide variety of types. I would argue that the rebels should be able to produce SpecForce troopers, and that the troopers should be by far the best in the game. For the rebel "organizer" (reworked Defiler), the unit could come into battle with secforces, or even spawn them, like the AT-AT (I don't know if this is possible) I would love to see the rebel equivilant of corruption, but I do not think that it is possible, based on somthing Phoenix said when he announced the XQ5 platform.
#28
Kalo Shin
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Posted 21 March 2008 - 05:00 AM
Out of the question? Says who? Canon DICTATES That they had Vehicles to stand up to Imperial Might, but they did cost quite a bit.
And who's to say PR can't make it like you say, but also have said Vehicles? Just in a different fashion.
And who's to say PR can't make it like you say, but also have said Vehicles? Just in a different fashion.
#29
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Posted 21 March 2008 - 11:20 AM
The rebels advantage was actualy the fact that they were outnumbered, and outgunned. The empire never saw them as a true threat, until they blew up their doorstep with an explosive charge, or their deathstar with a proton torp. :/
But the infultraitors that the rebels have now are somwhat unbalanced, since a few of them can take over a lightly defended planet alone. I sugest that the empire also get special forces, but that the rebels version is cheaper and slightly better, since their special forces were origonaly Imperial special forces that defected to the rebels. Also rebel troops should be cheeper in general, since they were volounteers, in a sence normal people fighting for what they belive in, as apposed to the dedicated soldiers of the empire. The empire should also have normal soldiers aswell, since stormtroopers were really more of an elite unit. So they also had other forces that were cheeper. The stormtroopers just stand out more. Because they feel that white is good camoflauge in the middle of a jungle or desert.
But the infultraitors that the rebels have now are somwhat unbalanced, since a few of them can take over a lightly defended planet alone. I sugest that the empire also get special forces, but that the rebels version is cheaper and slightly better, since their special forces were origonaly Imperial special forces that defected to the rebels. Also rebel troops should be cheeper in general, since they were volounteers, in a sence normal people fighting for what they belive in, as apposed to the dedicated soldiers of the empire. The empire should also have normal soldiers aswell, since stormtroopers were really more of an elite unit. So they also had other forces that were cheeper. The stormtroopers just stand out more. Because they feel that white is good camoflauge in the middle of a jungle or desert.
#30
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Posted 21 March 2008 - 11:55 AM
That's the point though. The rebels are supposed to be better in the infantry category. And as for the price thing, that is most likely for armor and weaponry not recruitment. The problem with adding imp elite infantry though is that they specialize in vehicles, not infantry. Therefore adding such infantry would unbalance the game by making them good in both categories. Not to mention it would sligtly mess with the canon.The rebels advantage was actualy the fact that they were outnumbered, and outgunned. The empire never saw them as a true threat, until they blew up their doorstep with an explosive charge, or their deathstar with a proton torp. :/
But the infultraitors that the rebels have now are somwhat unbalanced, since a few of them can take over a lightly defended planet alone. I sugest that the empire also get special forces, but that the rebels version is cheaper and slightly better, since their special forces were origonaly Imperial special forces that defected to the rebels. Also rebel troops should be cheeper in general, since they were volounteers, in a sence normal people fighting for what they belive in, as apposed to the dedicated soldiers of the empire. The empire should also have normal soldiers aswell, since stormtroopers were really more of an elite unit. So they also had other forces that were cheeper. The stormtroopers just stand out more. Because they feel that white is good camoflauge in the middle of a jungle or desert.
#31
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Posted 21 March 2008 - 02:42 PM
i mayt have ommited that the empire would have a much cheaper infantry (same cost as rebel), which would serve as garrison troops, they would also be weaker than the rebel infantry, the stmtrooper would be about 50% more expensive, their early versions less effective against rebels, but fuly upgraded, they would be better than ful upgrade rebel 'normal' infantry
#32
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Posted 21 March 2008 - 07:47 PM
I have to disagree with your assessment of stormies. I think that the rebels should have better infantry (even if it's only really cheaper.) In space the similar situation is that the Imps have better capitol ships, while the rebels specialize in fighters. I think that the imps should not have better vehicles and troops, because that is just ridiculous. The use of rebel weakness as an advantage does not work, because we can't simulate that. We need to keep this discussion within the bounds of what is realistic in the game. Also, could I have some examples of rebel vehicles that were equal to the imperials (I do not count things like airspeeders, because they were specialized) Even then, those should be at the top of the tech tree. And I question the elite status of stormies, because they were so easily defeated on Endor. They were really cheap, expendable shock troops.
#33
Casen
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Posted 21 March 2008 - 10:31 PM
I suggested garrison troops before and from what I can tell Phoenix Rising agrees with the idea.
http://starwars.wiki...al_Army_trooper
These should be the standard imperial soldiers.
http://starwars.wiki...al_Army_trooper
These should be the standard imperial soldiers.
#34
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Posted 22 March 2008 - 05:02 PM
I have spent some time thinking about the rebel ground forces. I present my suggestion for their ground forces, including buildings:
SecForce Complex: The standard rebel ground building. It produces SecForce troopers (standard rebel troopers), PLEX troopers (I know they are not entirely cannon, but I have included them to prevent Imp vehicles from rolling over everything), ULAVs (for hit-and-run missions) and possibly one or two other light vehicles/basic infantry units.
SpecForce Training Center: This building is used to produce rebel SpecForce Troopers. SpecForce Troopers come in a variety of different forms. I will base mine on the cannon groups: 1. Marines: if possible, have Chewie's ability to board vehicles in space. Otherwise, leave out entirely, or find a diffrent function. 2. Pathfinders: These units would have very large line of sight, and could possibly boost it. 3. Urban Combat Specialist: These men could be specialized in short range, high speed attacks. 4. Wilderness Fighters: The opposite of Urban specialists, these would have long-range, low speed attacks. 5. Infiltrators: Infiltrators would be able to cloak and would have some form of explosives. 6. Heavy Weapons Specialists: These units would be specialized in dealing high damage and could switch between a repeating blaster and a missile launcher. 7. Technicians: I'm not sure if these would be needed or not. However they could have R2s abilities to hack turrets and repair vehicles. Other types could be added, but these are the primary ones.
Rebel Vehicle Factory: This building would produce all vehicles not made in the SecForce Complex. Examples might be the Freerunner and the T-47.
Rebel Academy: This is a tentative name for the building that makes Saboteurs, Organizers and Officers. The saboteur is a unit with the Defiler's galactic sabotage ability, and a minor land function. The Organizer is a unit that I am not sure can be made to work in the manner I want. If possible, it should be a stealth unit that, when sent on a raid, brings with it 4-5 rebel troopers and 2-3 PLEX troopers. If it is used except on a raid, then it is the same as the Saboteur. If it has to have the same raid and standard forces, then it should be extra expensive. The officer is the same as in FOC.
I would appreciate any feedback you might have.
PS: Kacen, I agree with you, but that should be in the imperial ground unit forum.
SecForce Complex: The standard rebel ground building. It produces SecForce troopers (standard rebel troopers), PLEX troopers (I know they are not entirely cannon, but I have included them to prevent Imp vehicles from rolling over everything), ULAVs (for hit-and-run missions) and possibly one or two other light vehicles/basic infantry units.
SpecForce Training Center: This building is used to produce rebel SpecForce Troopers. SpecForce Troopers come in a variety of different forms. I will base mine on the cannon groups: 1. Marines: if possible, have Chewie's ability to board vehicles in space. Otherwise, leave out entirely, or find a diffrent function. 2. Pathfinders: These units would have very large line of sight, and could possibly boost it. 3. Urban Combat Specialist: These men could be specialized in short range, high speed attacks. 4. Wilderness Fighters: The opposite of Urban specialists, these would have long-range, low speed attacks. 5. Infiltrators: Infiltrators would be able to cloak and would have some form of explosives. 6. Heavy Weapons Specialists: These units would be specialized in dealing high damage and could switch between a repeating blaster and a missile launcher. 7. Technicians: I'm not sure if these would be needed or not. However they could have R2s abilities to hack turrets and repair vehicles. Other types could be added, but these are the primary ones.
Rebel Vehicle Factory: This building would produce all vehicles not made in the SecForce Complex. Examples might be the Freerunner and the T-47.
Rebel Academy: This is a tentative name for the building that makes Saboteurs, Organizers and Officers. The saboteur is a unit with the Defiler's galactic sabotage ability, and a minor land function. The Organizer is a unit that I am not sure can be made to work in the manner I want. If possible, it should be a stealth unit that, when sent on a raid, brings with it 4-5 rebel troopers and 2-3 PLEX troopers. If it is used except on a raid, then it is the same as the Saboteur. If it has to have the same raid and standard forces, then it should be extra expensive. The officer is the same as in FOC.
I would appreciate any feedback you might have.
PS: Kacen, I agree with you, but that should be in the imperial ground unit forum.
#35
TheEmpire
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Posted 23 March 2008 - 03:26 PM
The point of this mod is you make how strong you want you infantry or anything else. If you want strong infantry you upgrade them. If you want strong vehicals you upgrade them. YOU are commander! You do what you want. 
"Just once, I'd like to destroy a starship that we didn't pay for!"
"Welcome to the jolly old death star."
"Vader gets the plesure of killing someone while we get to stay among the living. Private Perkins overhere has been stranged over 30 times haven't you Perkins." "Good man."
"Welcome to the jolly old death star."
"Vader gets the plesure of killing someone while we get to stay among the living. Private Perkins overhere has been stranged over 30 times haven't you Perkins." "Good man."
#36
Kaleb Graff
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Posted 23 March 2008 - 08:51 PM
I basically agree, but in the space mod, the Rebels still have generally better fighters, while the Imps have better capital ships. Thus, we are not totally free of cannon strengths and weaknesses.
#39
skie9173
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Rebel (not so) High Command
Posted 30 March 2008 - 01:37 AM
I agree with the idea of a special rebel unit that works like a guerrilla unit like the corruptors though I’m sure it would be hard to code if not impossible. it would be interesting to see something similar to Zann's slavery missions (liberation or resistance cells in this case) this way the rebels could get access to various native forces.
If you think about it, alot of the races that could be enslaved by the ZC were races that were important members of the alliance. An easier way to do this could be to just let rebels or imps build native units on their home world. Sure they may not be as effective as normal troopers but they would be cheaper, maybe cost smaller amounts of populations since they are volunteers defending their home?
If you think about it, alot of the races that could be enslaved by the ZC were races that were important members of the alliance. An easier way to do this could be to just let rebels or imps build native units on their home world. Sure they may not be as effective as normal troopers but they would be cheaper, maybe cost smaller amounts of populations since they are volunteers defending their home?
There is no emotion, there is peace. There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity. There is no death, there is the Force.
There is no passion, there is serenity. There is no death, there is the Force.
#40
TheEmpire
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Posted 30 March 2008 - 04:32 PM
Mon Calamari Troopers. They just look cool. I can't find the picture but I will post it when I find it.
"Just once, I'd like to destroy a starship that we didn't pay for!"
"Welcome to the jolly old death star."
"Vader gets the plesure of killing someone while we get to stay among the living. Private Perkins overhere has been stranged over 30 times haven't you Perkins." "Good man."
"Welcome to the jolly old death star."
"Vader gets the plesure of killing someone while we get to stay among the living. Private Perkins overhere has been stranged over 30 times haven't you Perkins." "Good man."
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