77 replies to this topic

[Rawlo]

So heres the deal, in this topic here we're discussing the best way to punish someone who is conviticted of a truly screwed up crime, like mass merderers and serial rapists. In other words, people the world would likely not want wandering arround.

[ Edit ]

Ok just to make this clearer. these sugested punishments are not for people who accidently knock someone over in a brawl and kill them, or who rob stores, or anything like that or less, these are for people who truly are a canser on society, for people who if society got there hands on them, would be ripped limb from limb by the people that they trod over and who's likves they destroy by there actions. by the rioting people who they terrorized and inflicted themselves on.

[ /Edit ]

so heres the options:
1. True life jail sentence: they're stuck in a box most of the time, they get exersize, are fed well enough, get to socialize and all in all are living in an extremely boring and heavily guarded but otherwise not too unpleasent place to live (as long as your happy living with other people as bad as or worse then you). They also happen to be costing the state, and therefor the tax payer between 20 and 30 grand a year, each, which is more then some families earn....

2. Firing Squad: quick, clean, cheap, problems gone once it's done. exept that it tends to scare people shitless knowing they're about to be shot, so not considered a humane way to execute people. Leads to human rights groups throwing down the gauntlett. The other problem is discovering you've gotten the wrong guy after the execution (which does happen).

3. Lethal injection: not particularly quick, not particularly cheap, but clean, and signicantly less scary then being shot while wearing a hood. so human rights groups bitch less. but again it costs society money to make sure that someone who was a canser on said society dies as pleasently as possible. Again has the problem of not being reversable if you discover you have the wrong guy

4. Slave Labour: and I mean fair dinkum labour, as in chain gangs and guards with rifles and whips to make sure they work, rags for clothes, and food enough to keep them alive and working. Mining with picks and pulling resourses up out of the mines by hand or using hand pushed carts, no machinery allowed (other then picks, shovels and rail carts of course) either that or galley slaves. The sort of jobs people won't do volenterily because people unlucky enough to be doing it, don't tend to last more then 10 years. and thats plenty of time for authorities to find out if a bloke is actually guilty. The crims are also providing to society, not just leaching at them, they're eanring there food and board. That and it's a lot better deterrant then other forms of punishment.

I personally lke option four... so what do you chaps think?

Edited by Rawlo, 20 September 2008 - 08:17 AM.

[Shine On]

Well here are my general opinions:

- I think that Jail should be reserved for the mediocre crimes such as robbing a bank, man-slaughter etc. Mostly things that have cause disruption to society and members of the public but only on a fairly small scale.

- Firing Squad just the same as Lethal injection is tempting but can be used in the wrong way. If it is used it should only be in the most severe of cases. When things have been solidly proven that they are guilty and a danger to society.

- Hard labour is definatly a good idea, although you'd probaly get alot of human rights protesters bitch and complain about the whole idea. As long as they arn't treated like utter shit and have a fair work standard and conditions then that would probably be the best course. But yet again not really ideal for someone who's only done something minor.

[Alias]

#1 for me.
My points are in the other thread.
In summary; you should not have the right to end somebody else's life without their consent, hence jail is the only option.

Slave labour is possible but it is a bit too far in the past. If they refuse to work, what happens then? You cannot refuse to give them food. It's a nice idea, but I don't see it working out, nor do I see it being good for the welfare of the criminals.

[Rawlo]

If they refuse to work, what happens then?

thats what whips and beatings are for

nor do I see it being good for the welfare of the criminals

it was never ment to be, if they wanted to be treated well they should have thought alot longer and harder about raping or killing people. I'm not sugesting we use this sort of thing for people who lose control for a moment and kill a person in anger or get into a brawl and accidently kill someone. I'm talking about people who kill and rape, torture and destroy again and again. the type of people who are truly screwed up. the kind of people who refuse point blank to accept or obey the rules of the society they reside in. I don't think society should have the burden of supporting people like that.

[Ash]

Get them dead, for same reasons documented in other thread. While I agree in principle that the right to end life does not lie with any individual, one who kills another automatically forfeits their own right to life for having flouted someone else's.

I think the punishment should be administered on a rather Dante's Inferno-esque basis. You kill, you die. You commit fraud or rob a bank, you pay back the debt to society through slave labour (and that debt accrues big interest). You rape...well, you get the (rather unpleasant) idea.

But yeah. Pro-death penalty. Solves the problem permanently, and keeps the cells free for lesser crime.

[Shine On]

one who kills another automatically forfeits their own right to life for having flouted someone else's

Ah but what about if the death was actually accidental? Do you still forfeit your own right to life then?

[duke_Qa]

Well personally i feel that there should have been something above the jail option in this poll. Sending some rebellious kid that is having a rough time into the same hole as the hard-boiled bastards that will learn them how to make crime an art form and a way of life. blending the small time with the big times will cause a inflation of crime.

As the cop that watches over the joker in the dark knight says "I can tell the difference between punks who need a little lesson in manners, and the freaks like you who just enjoy it."

basically, house-arrest and other ways to keep small-times busy with other things than crime. force them through school and education and courses or they get more punishment. that kinda stuff.

[m@tt]

2. Firing Squad: quick, clean, cheap, problems gone once it's done. exept that it tends to scare people shitless knowing they're about to be shot, so not considered a humane way to execute people. Leads to human rights groups throwing down the gauntlett. The other problem is discovering you've gotten the wrong guy after the execution (which does happen).

3. Lethal injection: not particularly quick, not particularly cheap, but clean, and signicantly less scary then being shot while wearing a hood. so human rights groups bitch less. but again it costs society money to make sure that someone who was a canser on said society dies as pleasently as possible. Again has the problem of not being reversable if you discover you have the wrong guy

No form of Capital Punishment can be considered "quick and cheap" considering how long and expensive the process from sentence to death is. I'd rather them just be put in a cell for the rest of their life. It sort of depends how the total costs for each weight up.

[Ash]

one who kills another automatically forfeits their own right to life for having flouted someone else's

Ah but what about if the death was actually accidental? Do you still forfeit your own right to life then?

Manslaughter - fair enough, probably not death penalty worthy.


And I certainly don't believe that executions should be performed unless there is unequivocal proof. Reasonable doubt shouldn't apply in that circumstance.

[Rawlo]

Well personally i feel that there should have been something above the jail option in this poll. Sending some rebellious kid that is having a rough time into the same hole as the hard-boiled bastards that will learn them how to make crime an art form and a way of life. blending the small time with the big times will cause a inflation of crime.

As the cop that watches over the joker in the dark knight says "I can tell the difference between punks who need a little lesson in manners, and the freaks like you who just enjoy it."

basically, house-arrest and other ways to keep small-times busy with other things than crime. force them through school and education and courses or they get more punishment. that kinda stuff.

and again I say, I'm talking only about the big timers, the people who are really truly fucked up and insist on bringing our society down arround them who rape and murder on purpose knowing full well that our society will not exept it.

I am not, repeat, AM NOT, talking about anyone less then a mass murderer or serial rapist. the kind of people that if society got there hands on them would be ripped limb from limb by the crowd

[duke_Qa]

yeah I noticed that later on, but it wouldn't change my vote. we got two sorts of prison time here, normal jail time which you can easily get out 20-30% before you originally were supposed to come out. And "safekeeping", where it has been decided by the court that you are so unstable and/or psychotic that there is a 99% chance that you will repeat yourself if you were let out without proper treatment. normal jail time has a upper limit of 21 years, while safekeeping can last as long as the people in charge of you mean that there is no discernible change in your personality. but usually when you get 21 years of safekeeping, you stay inside for those years. and if the psychiatrist thinks you haven't changed after those 21 years, they add a few years to your time until the next check.


on the other hand, you can consider most sorts of imprisonment "slavery", but i guess prisoners prefer to have something to work with instead of sitting in a cell all day.

Edited by duke_Qa, 20 September 2008 - 10:10 AM.

[Puppeteer]

I'm with Alias on this one...

[Spectre]

I vote Slave labour, if the crime shows murder or has fucked up in any form or fashion someone innocent, then fuck death, that's letting them go easy, torture them their whole fucking life, make them miserable for the rest of their lives, and don't let them die until old age, then you will show all those stupid teens that the government means FUCKING buisness.

Edited by General Jenkins, 22 September 2008 - 12:35 AM.

[Vortigern]

I vote Slave labour, if the crime shows murder or has fucked up in any form or fashion someone innocent, then fuck death, that's letting them go easy, torture them their whole fucking life, make them miserable for the rest of their lives, and don't let them die until old age, then you will show all those stupid teens that the government means FUCKING buisness.

I actually agree with you on this one. Governments need to be seen to be doing something about crime, and short cushy prison sentences aren't going to deter anyone. It's known as 'living at Her Majesty's expense' over here. The death penalty should be legal, but only used in extreme circumstances, beyond doubt or redemption. There are cases of these. And slave labour, chain gangs, or even press gangs, they worked pretty well, keep everyone in check. (Press gangs are an old naval way of picking up recruits. You go around the docks and grab a bunch of spotty kids who aren't doing anything, shove them on a ship and sail away. If they want to get home again, they'll do as they're told. Just do it with criminals instead. Where can you run to on a ship? Give them a mop and bucket, and a flogging round the fleet if they don't like it.)

[Elvenlord]

Slave. Might as well get some use out of them. Instead of how many innocent people dying in coal mines, put the condemed down there, and set the former miners up as guards, so they will still have jobs. And that's just on example.

[Calamity_Jones]

Dude. Let's form a political party!

[Vortigern]

I'd join that, on the promise that you'll still hold the same opinions when you get elected. On the other hand, enslaving them does have the benefit of free labour with no rights. Fuck the humanitarians.

[Calamity_Jones]

Damn right. It's all these human rights people that have ruined society. Criminals forfeit their rights as humans by breaking the law. Some fucking middle aged woman in an office writing snotty letters about being nice to chavs because it's discriminating calling them thick brained feral animals that must be culled will change her mind when she gets stabbed by a 15 year old in a hoody.

[Puppeteer]

Some fucking middle aged woman in an office writing snotty letters about being nice to chavs because it's discriminating calling them thick brained feral animals that must be culled will change her mind when she gets stabbed by a 15 year old in a hoody.

Lol, fucking chavs. And chav-sympathisers. They're one and the same.

[Calamity_Jones]

Damn right. They don't need love. They need shooting.