94 replies to this topic

[Unknown]

Sauron cuz he knows the secrets of the one ring and he could possibly be able to control it even if someone else has it. Remember, the ring tries to get back to it's master

[Námo]

Please follow the rules set out for this match! You must chose a contender, and ... think twice.

Try again.

[Vortigern]

Unless Sauron were to come up against one of the Valar wearing his ring, I think he'd probably win. Frodo wouldn't stand a chance, for example.

And no, I don't have any inside information on Alatar and Pallando, I just know that they went off together and were largely seen as a pair. They're like a more mysterious and immortal version of Merry and Pippin. What else we got...

Thranduil VS Elrond. Two elven kings facing off against each other.

[Unknown]

I chose a contender, Sauron. And it depends on who has the ring, because if Gandalf had the ring, he would be more terrible than Sauron but when Gollum has the ring, Sauron just needs to punch Gollum and he dies
@Vortigern, I would say Elrond because he is a wise and powerful elf. He also survived the battle at Mordor when Thranduil didn't even join in

Edited by Unknown, 16 February 2011 - 09:09 PM.

[Námo]

... it depends on who has the ring, because if Gandalf had the ring, he would be more terrible than Sauron ...

In my question I stated, that *someone* (the contender) had the One Ring.

Anyway, the real 'winner' would in any case be the One Ring!

Gandalf (wielding the Ring) might possibly have won 'face to face' against Sauron ... "It would be a delicate balance" ... but even that victory would have been a defeat: “If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring. ... But the Ring ... would have been the master in the end.”

from Tolkien's Letters #246

... only Gandalf might be expected to master him - being an emissary of the Powers and a creature of the same order, an immortal spirit taking a visible physical form. In the 'Mirror of Galadriel', it appears that Galadriel conceived of herself as capable of wielding the Ring and supplanting the Dark Lord. If so, so also were the other guardians of the Three, especially Elrond. But this is another matter. It was part of the essential deceit of the Ring to fill minds with imaginations of supreme power. But this the Great had well considered and had rejected, as is seen in Elrond's words at the Council. Galadriel's rejection of the temptation was founded upon previous thought and resolve.

In any case Elrond or Galadriel would have proceeded in the policy now adopted by Sauron: they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force. Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated.

One can imagine the scene in which Gandalf, say, was placed in such a position. It would be a delicate balance. On one side the true allegiance of the Ring to Sauron; on the other superior strength because Sauron was not actually in possession, and perhaps also because he was weakened by long corruption and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. But the Ring and all its works would have endured. It would have been the master in the end.

Elrond [...] survived the battle at Mordor when Thranduil didn't even join in.

If you are referring to the War of the Last Alliance, Tranduil did join that battle.

[Elvenlord]

For someone with the ring vs. Sauron, I would pick Galadriel, though yes the ring would more or less win.

Elrond. Far and away.

[Unknown]

Elrond [...] survived the battle at Mordor when Thranduil didn't even join in.

If you are referring to the War of the Last Alliance, Tranduil did join that battle.

Awww, I never knew that. I'm gonna have to read the books again

[Námo]

from Unfinished Tales History of Galadriel and Celeborn, Appendix B: The Sindarin Princes of the Silvan Elves

Despite the desire of the Silvan Elves to meddle as little as might be in the affairs of the Noldor and Sindar, or of any other peoples, Dwarves, Men, or Orcs, Oropher had the wisdom to foresee that peace would not return unless Sauron was overcome. He therefore assembled a great army of his now numerous people, and joining with the lesser army of Malgalad of Lórien he led the host of the Silvan Elves to battle. The Silvan Elves were hardy and valiant, but ill-equipped with armour or weapons in comparison with the Eldar of the West; also they were independent, and not disposed to place themselves under the supreme command of Gil-galad. Their losses were thus more grievous than they need have been, even in that terrible war. Malgalad and more than half his following perished in the great battle of the Dagorlad, being cut off from the main host and driven into the Dead Marshes. Oropher was slain in the first assault upon Mordor, rushing forward at the head of his most doughty warriors before Gil-galad had given the signal for the advance. Thranduil his son survived, but when the war ended and Sauron was slain (as it seemed) he led back home barely a third of the army that had marched to war.

Thranduil was of noble Sindarin lineage; his father Oropher did originally live in Doriath, under the rule of Elu Thingol (1st Age).

Ongoing match: Elrond VS Thranduil?

[Unknown]

I would still go for Elrond as I know a bit more about him than Thranduil
New match up: Galadriel with Nenya vs Saruman of many colors

Edited by Unknown, 17 February 2011 - 01:33 PM.

[_Haldir_]

For Elrond vs Thranduil, i would definitely say Elrond. Elrond was descendant from Melian and Thingol, as well as Fingolfin and the Noldor. He thus had a strong bloodline that included Beren, Luthien, Earendil, Fingolfin, Turgon and many other mighty Elves/Men. He is a experienced leader and warrior, as shown in the War of the Last Alliance, and his service under Gil-Galad would have taught him many things. He would have far superior armour (likely Noldorin in making), and also bore the ring vilya (though i wouldn't give it any weight in a combat situation).

Thranduil on the other hand was a fairly ordinary Silvian elf. He would be lightly armoured, and have more experience with hunting and guerilla-type warfare, than actual one-on-one combat.

As for Galadriel vs Saruman, i think i'd have to go with Saruman in a one-on-one contest. Saruman was a Maia, and i'd assume that he was of equal or greater power to Gandalf the Grey (being named the "greatest" of the Istari by Gandalf). Gandalf had several magical powers, and was able to defeat the Balrog in a one-on-one battle. I'd say then, that Saruman would be able to as well, and would be able to beat Galadriel.

None of the three elven rings were combat-orientated. They only preserved what was good, they weren't weapons of magical power. However, if this was a contest of armies (i.e. all of Isengard's forces vs Lorien), i think Galadriel would win in that case. It's said that Lorien, protected by Galadriel and Nenya, wouldn't fall unless Sauron himself arrived there to besiege it.

How about Gandalf the Grey vs Gil-Galad?

[Elvenlord]

I'm fairly sure Thranduil was Sindarian, but it really doesn't help him enough.

I would go with Galadriel. Yes yes, Gandalf defeated a balrog (singular) and Saruman was stronger than him at that point, but remember who Galadriel was related to, namely elves that defeated multiple balrogs, and was the niece of f-ing Feanor himself.

[Unknown]

I would go for Gil-Galad as Gandalf the Grey was limited to his power (as were all the Istari) but Gil-Galad had no limits in battle. He had thousands of years of training and became the High King of Noldor at one point and sacrificed his life during the battle of the Last Alliance along with Elendil to defeat Sauron (for those of you who don't know, Isildur didn't do all the work and Sauron didn't just bash Elendil with a mace Gil-Galad and Elendil challenged Sauron into man to man combat).
Anyways, his dad was Fingon and his Grandfather was Fingolfin who were mighty elves that suceeded a lot Gil-Galad survived Morgoth's wrath in the 1st age along with Cirdan. Gil-Galad however, did not use the ring Vilya ever, all he did with it was keep it for safe-keepings and then let Elrond have it around the same time he elected Elrond as his vice-regent. But on the other hand, Gandalf the Grey did accomplish to kill a Balrog of Morgoth (at the cost of his own life) just as Glorfindel did. And since I would say Glorfindel couldn't beat Gil-Galad in a face to face combat, then I would say Gandalf couldn't even with his Arsenal powers.

If you want some help on the death of Sauron's physical body then here it is:

At last, Sauron himself came down from his tower. On the slopes of Mount Doom, he fought with Gil-galad and Elendil. Gil-galad was killed by the black hand of Sauron which burned like fire, and Elendil was also slain, but together they managed to cast down Sauron's physical body. Elendil's son Isildur cut the One Ring from Sauron's hand, and Sauron's spirit fled from his body and went into hiding for many years until he arose again.

This is taken from the Thain's book under Gil-Galad's section

New match up: Sauron vs Morgoth (both in physical form)

Edited by Unknown, 18 February 2011 - 10:13 AM.

[Taralom]

Morgoth

[Lauri]

Morgoth

[Elvenlord]

Could have sworn I posted already, but whatever.

That's not even fair. Morgoth.

[Vortigern]

Isn't Morgoth the god who created Sauron? Or at least had Sauron as a servant, or something? One way or another, wasn't Morgoth Sauron's boss? In which case, he would clearly win.

[Unknown]

Ok, seeing that was an easy match-up, here is a new one: Shagrat vs. Ugluk

[Elvenlord]

I'd imagine Shagrat would have a little more experience, as Ugluk was killed on his first mission, so Shagrat.

[Unknown]

I'd imagine Shagrat would have a little more experience, as Ugluk was killed on his first mission, so Shagrat.

I would say Ugluk although he was killed by Eomer who was one of the strongest Rohirrim, he was still a strong warrior. And Shagrat didn't have any life threatening missions to die in (excpet scouting Shelob's lair on the ocassion)

[Elvenlord]

As far as we know. He had to become Captain of the tower somehow, and among orcs I'd imagine it's done primarily though strength, either through successful attacks on Gondor or simply beating the crap out of the other orcs. Since it was an official thing, I'd go with attacks on Gondor, perhaps he was even part of the attack on Ithilien, as I don't think it's ever stated how long orcs lived, if they even died of natural causes.