30 replies to this topic

[isledebananas]

Well heavy cavalry doing well against infantry of the past ages makes sense since basic infantry were mostly fodder.

Just in Medieval times. I definately would not like to fight hoplites or the roman legions, both of whom were very effective against cavalry

Well Elvenlord mentioned that heavy cavalry was used to mow down infantry in the past quite effectively. As far as I know it was only during the Middle Ages. Your right in that during antiquity that armies consisted of more powerful infantry and cavalry was weaker(lighter) and less extensive. Even the weak cavalry aside the heavy cavalry wouldn't do much better since the infantry mostly used spears and had considerable armor and training.

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I think the dichotomy should be simple. Heavily armored cavalry are more for being in the thick of things more like beefier regular soldiers. Medium cavalry is there for mobility and flanking. One is clearly designed to be used for trampling while the other isn't. Heavy cavalry is mainly used to crash into an army and start hacking away. They aren't good for trampling from a realistic view since its difficult enough trampling, but speed and maneuverability is less with all that armor. It doesn't matter how armor may add weight it detracts heavily in the ability of the horse to move as effectively at higher speeds. Especially with the high center of gravity plus armor makes balance a serious issue and even more so when trampling. Once that heavily armored horse goes down its less likely to get back up so the rider knows not to compromise themselves. However, the impact should be far greater since the point of heavy cavalry is more about damaging than routing or mobility. They have a bit of the strengths of cavalry and heavy infantry which makes them unique.

[Taralom]

I doubt your statement.

If I would compare it to men, a regular person, whose job would be sitting behind a desk, would be faster than a semi-muscular man with longer legs. I doubt the size of a horse mattered. But then again, I cannot disprove your statement.

[King Harlaus]

The Rohirrim would constitute the best cavalry and anti-cavalry in the game , since they have spears , bows , axes , swords or even maces ; the Mounted Royal Guards are perfectly , I think , against warg riders or any medium or heavy cavalry.
But against Wainriders , or even Kataphacts , I would say Gondor , since they have powerful riders and horsemen , the KoDA .
In both TTT and ROTK , Rohirrim charged without being impaled onto pikes or hallberds , they crushed easily the legions of orcs , and scatter the Uruks . So they would fit heir role against all types of infantry , light and medium in a first time , then the well armored units like Shields Uruks.
They would be used to cover a large territory with their swift and resistant horses , so they crush or trampple infantry for a long time . But for Gondor , it's rather to push back soldiers and hold a long time since their men are well armored , as well as their horses , but not to charge in an pen field , rather in a counter attack or to scatter the havoc on their foes ....

[Elvenlord]

I doubt your statement.

If I would compare it to men, a regular person, whose job would be sitting behind a desk, would be faster than a semi-muscular man with longer legs. I doubt the size of a horse mattered. But then again, I cannot disprove your statement.

There's a reason race horses are small. They're faster and more agile.

[KingElessar2384]

The Rohirrim would constitute the best cavalry and anti-cavalry in the game , since they have spears , bows , axes , swords or even maces ; the Mounted Royal Guards are perfectly , I think , against warg riders or any medium or heavy cavalry.
But against Wainriders , or even Kataphacts , I would say Gondor , since they have powerful riders and horsemen , the KoDA .
In both TTT and ROTK , Rohirrim charged without being impaled onto pikes or hallberds , they crushed easily the legions of orcs , and scatter the Uruks . So they would fit heir role against all types of infantry , light and medium in a first time , then the well armored units like Shields Uruks.
They would be used to cover a large territory with their swift and resistant horses , so they crush or trampple infantry for a long time . But for Gondor , it's rather to push back soldiers and hold a long time since their men are well armored , as well as their horses , but not to charge in an pen field , rather in a counter attack or to scatter the havoc on their foes ....

Aha! That's one quality that makes the Rohirrim the most powerful cavalry unit;)

[Taralom]

There's a reason race horses are small. They're faster and more agile.

I'm sorry, Elven, but can you back that argument up? I try to find information of Race Horses' sizes when compared to regular horses, but I can't.

[Elvenlord]

Horse racing, at least in America, are pretty much exclusively done with thoroughbreds (this is the main one), Arabian horses, and quarter horses, which are all "hot-blooded" horses, which are smaller and faster than "cold-blooded" horses. Hot-blooded generally weigh 800-1200 lbs, while cold-blooded weigh 1500-2000. Warm-bloods are pretty much mixes between the two.

[isledebananas]

@ Taralom & Elvenlord

Well the thing is since these were horses for warriors they most likely would be about similar. All horses bred for war and to bear heavy loads on their backs. Perhaps not as big as to carry heavy loads on wagons, but still probably in that area between really big for carrying and fast simply for speed. Since most of the horses would be about similar at least within the faction naturally the horses carrying a lighter load would be faster. Even then the horses would be different based on their function within the army. Some are meant for prolonged running which would be what most Rohirrim have, whereas true heavy cavalry are chargers usually like the ones seen in jousting used for short strong runs.

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I don't think we can judge the Rohirrim cavalry solely based on their performances in the charge at Helms Deep or the charge at Pelennor Fields. From a gaming standpoint one could say both instances they were buffed by some spell or ability one by Gandalf and Eomer with the other being from Theoden. I think that success against pikes should come from some spellbook ability that can be cast on targets which causes units around them to cower which is what happened in those charges.

[yams in a can]

Then Rohan should have the best values for literally everything honestly. Their horses could do much more then every other horse. Even if their horses had more armor and everything, they would still be faster or at least the same speed, as light cavalry.

Like I said, I would prefer Rohirrim have a bonus against all other mounted heroes, including heroes!.

[KingElessar2384]

Aha, I have it: Here's a quote from Lord of the Rings.net/Weapons and Warfare.
"The Rohirrim would be skilled in both light and heavy cavalry attacks and would have adopted a strategy depending on the size of the opposing force. Against a raiding party of Orcs, they would have likely used a hit and run approach, riding close and firing arrows into the ranks, to try to break morale and force them to flee; there would be no point in an infantry unit trying to chase them, as the Riders would have just outrun them, turn and then repeat the attack. Once the demoralised force chose to retreat, the Riders would chase and harry them, attacking their unprotected backs until all were dead. Of course, on the wide open plains the approaching Rohirrim would have been visible for a long time, so in most instances a show of force would have been enough to drive off bandits or outlaws: all they would need do is ride up on to a crest, line up with their spears held aloft, and rely on their reputation to drive them off. A physical confrontation would have been the last resort, in order not to risk their horses or themselves. Although they fought as one unit they were able to disband and still perform at their best without the need to be commanded"

Go to the below address for the information;)
http://www.lordofthe...herohirrim.html


Rohirrim fit the category of light cavalry, medium cavalry, and heavy cavalry.
Here's another quote from the same web:
"Against a more determined or more numerous foe, the Rohirrim would still use the bow as a principal weapon - with every race, the range weapon formed the first stage of the combat strategy - to try to thin the enemy ranks and create gaps in their line. (The horses weren't stupid, and would have shied away from charging into a solid line of defenders. Also, no sensible commander would have ordered a charge into a solid line of spears, unless the enemy was disordered.) Once a breach had been made, the Rohirrim would have formed a tight phalanx and charged in using their heavy ash spears: these would be held as lances until they broke through the front ranks, then thrown at short range once in their midst. Some commanders may have held a separate unit of archers off to the side to continue peppering the enemy while the lancers rode towards them. The combination of the thunderous noise and the sight of these powerful beasts and their riders bearing down upon an infantry defence would have struck fear into their hearts - the Rohirrim would have towered above them, out of reach of enemy blows but perfectly equipped to drive their spear into their flesh. This charge would have punched through the defensive ranks, splitting them to create a big gap: an enemy divided in this way would lose its sense of security of being part of a larger whole, further weakening their resolve to fight. In the meantime, the Riders would have passed through the ranks of defenders, wheeled around and be riding into their unprotected rear with swords and axes ready to chop down upon enemy heads. So, the training for every one of the Rohirrim of bow first, then lance, throw the lance, then draw the sword and start cleaving would have been ingrained into them from the start; it was a strategy that had worked for centuries and would serve them well in the greatest battle of the War of the Ring, when they rode onto the Pelennor Fields."

This is only emphasizing their strategic uses and primary use of weapons.
thx.

Edited by KingElessar2384, 05 December 2010 - 01:06 AM.

[yams in a can]

Rohirrim should be able to switch to Lance, Sword, and Bow. Swords will allow them to do more damage, but they do less trample damage. Lances will be the source of trample damage, and they will be able to throw them, but you will have to equip them with lances again, for about 300. Then the bow, will obviously allow them to pick off enemy units.