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Contra 008-009 Changelog Topic


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#21 Creator

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 07:23 AM

And also as for buildings, i suggest to remove drones upgrade and give them security systems as sw gen and af gen has. Every security system from them is multi purpose, against inf, tanks and planes and cyborgs can build only ai, aa and at (after rank 3). Its a bit unfair.

Security systems is another imbalance. I will not give them to cyber gen. I will remove them tom other generals instead. This thing needs to be redesigned.

also another thing,what about making minnigunners,flamethrowers and toxin rebel,jikhad warrior from strong type soliders too(like cyborgs)?

It is not so easy. Minigunner owns everybody in the beginning because of his attack range. Lower his atack range - and he will not be able to do anything in later game. There is similar thing with Toxin Rebel. If you have 1 Toxin Rebel - he kills 1 Red Guard with ease. If you have 10 Toxin Rebels, they will not kill 10 Red Guards because of their attack range. Many of your rebels will die before they come close. All these problems need to be solved.

Edited by Creator, 04 November 2009 - 07:24 AM.


#22 Casojin

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 08:42 AM

Security systems is another imbalance. I will not give them to cyber gen. I will remove them tom other generals instead. This thing needs to be redesigned.

Redesigning it would be better than removing. If it is removed, USA would be dead instantly if enemy decide to rush because most of USA tools are very expensive and not very strong (plus long build time). If you're planning to remove the security system, cheap def structure should be given to USA to compensate (to make USA not so weak at beginning like in 005). I also think that USA should still utilize expensive high-quality high-survivability tools as they play style.

Here are possible ideas to adjust security system balance.
- Increasing its cost would make USA player think more before placing these tools, allowing attacker to bypass easiler (since less number of these tools would be built in early game.
- Reduce its firepower or range.
- Make it vulnerable to most weapon type.
- Add power requirement.

Edited by Casojin, 04 November 2009 - 08:43 AM.

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#23 dcesarec

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 10:41 AM

Don`t remove security systems, casojin is right. USA would be so weak without them, but they do need some redesign work.

I suggest at rank 1 and 2 they are only machine guns, strong against infantry and weak (strong but not so strong) against tanks. After rank 3 they get automatically rocket attack, good both against tanks and planes.

Edited by dcesarec, 04 November 2009 - 10:44 AM.

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#24 Arcadian Daze

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 04:44 PM

Don`t remove security systems, casojin is right. USA would be so weak without them, but they do need some redesign work.

I suggest at rank 1 and 2 they are only machine guns, strong against infantry and weak (strong but not so strong) against tanks. After rank 3 they get automatically rocket attack, good both against tanks and planes.


no it should come when you purchase TOW missile upgrade

Edited by Arcadian Daze, 04 November 2009 - 04:44 PM.

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 07:52 PM

i think make it require power will make it more balanced.
also laser gen sec system shouldn't be able to shot down missile,because that is really sick having all your missiles shot down because some buildings near each other have sec system.

#26 Casojin

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 02:31 AM

also laser gen sec system shouldn't be able to shot down missile,because that is really sick having all your missiles shot down because some buildings near each other have sec system.

The purpose of it is to destroy missiles. You should use shell (tank gun, artillery) instead.
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#27 Thats me!

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 08:30 AM

it shots down artillery missiles as well(like f 16 ones for example)

#28 Casojin

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 09:22 AM

It can shot down one at a time and it can't shoot at vehicle. That's the drawback. Personally, I think Laser sec system is not as useful as others.
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#29 phenom1989

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 07:32 PM

why deleting dirty bomb?
i know the enemy going fast down when they exploding it, but maybe you can make the some unit's immune to dirty bomb :S

and nice changes fixes etc
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#30 Casojin

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 01:38 AM

I don't use dirty bomb anyway. Only High-explosive bomb is useful. Dirty bomb tends to damage my own units instead of the enemy. I think Creator removed it to free up some upgrade slots.
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#31 Creator

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 04:58 PM

Contra 008 change log (part 2)

Fixed errors.

- All: Some vehicles (Ambulance and Engineering TC) did not have immunity to radiation. Fixed.
- China: Signal mines don't destroy structures with 0% completion state any more.
- USA: Bunker busters kill infantry properly now.
- Super Weapon general: Cyclone missile logis has bees fixed. All 5 mini-missiles hit ground targets now.
- Toxin general: Luna toxin missile spawned 2 clouds at once: green and purple ones. Fixed.
- Toxin general: Destroyed Crop Duster had pink nose. Fixed. Its skin has been redrawn too.
- Toxin general: Crop Duster toxin trail was not visible when attacking in groups. Fixed.
- Tank general: Tank training general's power did not effect Banshee and Earth shaker. Fixed.
- Tank general: Tanks exited mass production factory did not go to rally point. Fixed.
- Stealth general: Buggy Ammo upgrade did not effect fake buggy. It allowed to distinct real and fake vehicles. Fixed.
- Assault general: Recycling ability recovered Desert Cruiser tank and thus, allowed to have multiple Desert Cruisers in tournament mode. Fixed. Recycling does not effect Desert Cruiser any more.
- Flame general: A-100 had incorrect headlights. Fixed.
- Flame general: Ka-29 bombs did not explode when they fell on a bridge. Fixed.
- Cyber general: Helicopter engine sound played when Hecate was shot dows. Fixed. Hecate death sound has been changed.
- Cyber general: Drop pods could not open if they get on a bridge. Fixed.

Text and descriptions changes.

- Hero limit is 1 unit, but it was written "no more than 3". Corrected.
- EMP upgrade description corrected.
- Gattling TC description corrected.
- Nuclear Storm description corrected.

Balance changes.

- USA: Strategy center bonuses were changed. All battle plans give 15% bonuses now.
- USA: Dozer Engine upgrade moved from Command Center to Dozers. It is individual upgrade now which costs 300.
- Super Weapon general: Tomahawk Storm and Particle Cannon are not limited in Trounament Mode now.
- Laser general: Omega Cannon recieves +30% firepower from Control Rods upgrade now.
- Laser general: Stealth Generator upgrade for Omega Cannon makes it stealth when moving too.
- Cyber general: Chinoor can transport units now, but can not build drones.
- Cyber general: Ground driods require 2 places in Chinook now. It prevents Chinook from having 8 flying drones around.
- Cyber general: Infantry can not build drones in the beginning, but recieves this ability later, after new upgrade at 3rd rank. Thus, players can have Chinook with 4 flying drones for $4800 at 1st rank and Chinook with 8 flying drones for $6400 at 3rd rank.
- Cyber general: Stormtroopers weakened yet again. They have less armor and forepower now.
- Flame general: Immolator and A-100 build time reduced a bit. A-100 cost decreased slightly too.
- Flame general: Iron Fist can build Vortex Cannon addon now.
- Flame general: TC comes with 4 Flamethrowers and 4 Tank Hunters now.
- Infantry general: Battle Fortreess has 10% less health and 10% less repair speed now.
- GLA: All demo traps require Barracks now.
- GLA: Flak gun has invisible shells now.
- Demo general: Nuclear bomb truck can not be put into tunnels now.
- Demo general: All mine deployment general's powers recharge for 5 min 30 sec. now (was 5 min).
- Demo general: Minefield requires Arms Dealer now.
- Demo general: Dolphins are more costy and need less range to lock on target.
- Demo general: Cockroach got new ability: temporary invisibility. It makes Cockroach stealth for 10 sec. and reloads for 45 sec.
- Stealth general: Saboteur Ambush general's power has 1 level now. Sniper Ambush has 3 levels.

Other changes.

- Stealth general: Fake Radar Vans can be built now.
- Assault general: Stinger upgrade for Marauder has been removed. Marauders are built with Stingers by default.
- Assault general: Triple-barrelled Marauder upgrade has been removed.
- Toxin general: Scolopendra can spill acids around itself like Toxin Truck does.
- Death Hand, Elbrus and King of Fire are immune to neutron weapons now. It prevents players from having multiple such untis in tournament mode.
- Air Force general: Prerequisites adjusted. Each building which required small levitation pad, requires small OR big pads now. So, it is not necessary to build small levitation pads. You can build big ones only.
- Menu buttons sounds changed.

Maps.

- Lighting was fixed on "Homeland Alliance" map. Craters will not be blue any more.
- "Turtledom" map removed.
- Added 3 new maps: "Lot-D", "Advantages" and "Hill Fortress". I wanted to add Tri-Pong too, but it needs to be more accurate and more detailed.

#32 Thats me!

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 06:30 PM

Everything good,but:
"sw gen.:t-storm and p-cannon have no limit in t-mode"
*sees sw spam incoming*
ehm,why this change?

"storm trooper nerfed"
you really have them,don't you?in every version they get a nerf,i think its pretty fine now,they have 7 min reload time,so they must be somehow powerfull for their reload time.

"cyber gen:infanty require upgrade to build drones"
what about making them available from rank 3 without upgrade?,will be better i think.

"inf gen:battle fortress nerfed"
why?they are pretty useless without extra 3000 spent on infantry anyway.

Edited by Thats me!, 22 November 2009 - 06:34 PM.


#33 dcesarec

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 07:18 PM

-stormtroopers weakend...so, if you wanna cyber commando at rank 5 you need to spend points on weak stormtroopers now, and data upload power (as you said you will make prerequisite for cyber commando)? So untill rank 5 your powers will be...??? Nothing? Now im realy sad cause of this, and pissed a bit, you take everything from my favorite gen!

-cyber chinook with 4 or 8 drones, will he be able to transport units like regular one?

-i agree with with thats me, make all cyber infantry after rank 3 with automatic drones

- "Super Weapon general: Tomahawk Storm and Particle Cannon are not limited in Trounament Mode now" - (make it limited but 2 or 3, unlimited is op i think

-"USA: Bunker busters kill infantry properly now." -hope china infantry command center and power plants will not be affected

-"Infantry general: Battle Fortreess has 10% less health and 10% less repair speed now." - if so, make it cost less, not as usual supertank cause you need to spend aditional money for infantry

-tri prong map is just a land filled with tech buildings, i dont even like it...but ok

Question, what is about infantry early upgrades like you said, all infantry units will have same power at the beginning untill they get unique upgrades also available in the beginning, i didnt saw anything about this. So, for cyber infantry ofcourse, if drones are available at rank 3, which upgrades will affect them in this early stage!??
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#34 Arcadian Daze

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 07:45 PM

the bunker busters can only clear neutral buildings
just like bunkers cant be cleared by toxin trucks or bunkerbusters to
and like thats me said why no limit on p,cannon ot t,storm
if you play agaisnt SWG wich bunkers in heavy and has osme steady cash you'll get 10 t'storms firing about 20 seconds away form eachother meaning your base is under constant barrage while the opponment doesnt take any risk at all

and maybe for the usa securety systems
you might do a turret that shoots and projectile that can kill almost every early game tank in 1 shot but with up to 45 sec reload time
it stops the rush but doesnt matter alot in a full scale attack
make this system more expansive and add a power requirement of 1

Edited by Arcadian Daze, 22 November 2009 - 07:50 PM.

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#35 dcesarec

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 08:42 PM

More questions about chinooks with drones.If you built them with 4 drones,which drones exactly will he spawn,and what if they are destroyed,they respawn or?Or you deceide which ones and you can mix them?Please explain this to me,i cant figure,so many questions :s
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#36 Casojin

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 02:26 AM

the bunker busters can only clear neutral buildings
just like bunkers cant be cleared by toxin trucks or bunkerbusters to
and like thats me said why no limit on p,cannon ot t,storm
if you play agaisnt SWG wich bunkers in heavy and has osme steady cash you'll get 10 t'storms firing about 20 seconds away form eachother meaning your base is under constant barrage while the opponment doesnt take any risk at all

and maybe for the usa securety systems
you might do a turret that shoots and projectile that can kill almost every early game tank in 1 shot but with up to 45 sec reload time
it stops the rush but doesnt matter alot in a full scale attack
make this system more expansive and add a power requirement of 1

- Bunker buster can clear everything (except internet center, of course) ever since original ZH. In Contra it's weakened (it just pushed enemy infantries out of the building with little damage).
- Tomahawk storm costs $2500 and Particle cannon costs $3500 plus space and power requirement. In an intense multiplayer game, I don't even have to build one of those to win (watch my replays). If you let your enemy build such weapons, then you deserve to be defeated.
- Security system that can destroy early game tank in 1 shot would make the game unbalance.

More questions about chinooks with drones.If you built them with 4 drones,which drones exactly will he spawn,and what if they are destroyed,they respawn or?Or you deceide which ones and you can mix them?Please explain this to me,i cant figure,so many questions :s

dcesarec, please read more clearly. Chinook has transport ability now and sacrificing drone upgrades. Flying drone carrier can be created by putting your ground drone with drone upgrade in (4 ground drones = 4 flying drone for Chinook) during rank 1-2. At rank 3 when infantry can be upgraded with drone, you can put 8 infantries in (8 inf = 8 flying drones for Chinook).



Creator...here are my question?
- How much is the stormtrooper weakened?
- Will the China Dozer Armor work the same way as Dozer engine upgrade?
- Can Flak Gun invisible shell still be blocked by SWG Shield?
- Have you found what cause an error with Cyber Automated Production and Fafnir yet?
- Will there be fake Command Truck and Supply Stash for Stealth Gen as well?

Edited by Casojin, 23 November 2009 - 02:44 AM.

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#37 dcesarec

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 03:11 AM

the bunker busters can only clear neutral buildings
just like bunkers cant be cleared by toxin trucks or bunkerbusters to
and like thats me said why no limit on p,cannon ot t,storm
if you play agaisnt SWG wich bunkers in heavy and has osme steady cash you'll get 10 t'storms firing about 20 seconds away form eachother meaning your base is under constant barrage while the opponment doesnt take any risk at all

and maybe for the usa securety systems
you might do a turret that shoots and projectile that can kill almost every early game tank in 1 shot but with up to 45 sec reload time
it stops the rush but doesnt matter alot in a full scale attack
make this system more expansive and add a power requirement of 1

- Bunker buster can clear everything (except internet center, of course) ever since original ZH. In Contra it's weakened (it just pushed enemy infantries out of the building with little damage).
- Tomahawk storm costs $2500 and Particle cannon costs $3500 plus space and power requirement. In an intense multiplayer game, I don't even have to build one of those to win (watch my replays). If you let your enemy build such weapons, then you deserve to be defeated.
- Security system that can destroy early game tank in 1 shot would make the game unbalance.

More questions about chinooks with drones.If you built them with 4 drones,which drones exactly will he spawn,and what if they are destroyed,they respawn or?Or you deceide which ones and you can mix them?Please explain this to me,i cant figure,so many questions :s

dcesarec, please read more clearly. Chinook has transport ability now and sacrificing drone upgrades. Flying drone carrier can be created by putting your ground drone with drone upgrade in (4 ground drones = 4 flying drone for Chinook) during rank 1-2. At rank 3 when infantry can be upgraded with drone, you can put 8 infantries in (8 inf = 8 flying drones for Chinook).



Creator...here are my question?
- How much is the stormtrooper weakened?
- Will the China Dozer Armor work the same way as Dozer engine upgrade?
- Can Flak Gun invisible shell still be blocked by SWG Shield?
- Have you found what cause an error with Cyber Automated Production and Fafnir yet?
- Will there be fake Command Truck and Supply Stash for Stealth Gen as well?

Oh,i get it now about chinooks.About sw general,so if i succeed to build tomahawk storm you deserve to be destroyed!?I think you have gonne a bit too far,its just a regular building,its not hard to build it,not even against you.Just more carefull and turtle fighting and anyone can build it,specially in team games where your team mate will protect you.I agree for limmit more than 1,but not unlimmited.
And in our ffa game with zorro you have built tomahawk storm and still lost (with your theory me and zorro should be automaticlly defeated),now you are telling me if this building wasnt limmited you wouldnt build it more than one??I doubt,cause you have built it even before our joined attacks on you!

Edited by dcesarec, 23 November 2009 - 03:21 AM.

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#38 Casojin

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 04:01 AM

What I meant is that these things are not easy to build if you're constantly attacked and your supply is constantly drained. But if you let enemy build large number of Superweapons, by not attacking or disrupting enemy supplyline, then you deserve to be defeated. Because the only way the enemy can build that many superweapons is that the enemy has no supplyline disruption. You can see clearly in the game you played as SWG against Thats me as Tank Gen. You have no space to build them and not enough money or power to build multiple superweapons.

Sorry that I didn't write it clear enough earlier.

Edited by Casojin, 23 November 2009 - 04:07 AM.

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#39 dcesarec

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 04:57 AM

But i had built it even against thats me,and i lost.And build space was small only thanks to my few mistakes.In beginning i let my attack patriots be defending ones which deceided my build space,but ok,we are going offtopic.I just think it should be limmited to 2 or 3.
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#40 Thats me!

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 07:09 AM

Oh well,so super weapon spam is gonna be dominant in008,because t-storm is cheap and require only 1 power requirement.
He can just expand and then turtle the expansion,and then good luck defeating him in rank1 while he can build unlimited sw1 at rank 1,where he can bombard you every 20 sec.

thats your point casojin,right?

make turtling with sw gen even more powerfull.




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