20 replies to this topic

[feillyne]

Due to Beowulf's request and specially for him, base defenses plans (or rather no plans at all) will be changed.

So, for Allies (this scheme will be +/- followed by other factions):
1) the 1st tier:
Pillbox
Patriot Missile System
Gun Turret (against tanks)
Sandbags

2) the 2nd tier:
Advanced Pillbox
Hidden Pillbox
Compatriot Missile System (can attack both air and land targets)
Advanced Gun Turret
Grand Cannon
Artillery Cannon (inspired by Twisted Insurrection's neutral capturable artillery base defenses)
Concrete Walls

3) the 3rd tier:
Anti-infantry cannon (this one will be powered)
Prism Tower (they will be a bit cheaper after these changes)
Loyalist Missile System (can attack both air and targets, better at destroying aircraft, moreover, has extreme range)
Double Cannon (more powerful Advanced Gun Turret)
Upgraded Grand Cannon
Advanced Artillery Cannon
Fortress Walls (good luck with taking them out!)

All base defenses will be stronger or cheaper and have more firepower or faster ROF than in regular RA2:YR. They will deserve their name, "base defenses".
One will be really able to make the base an impregnable fortress.


PS It's a joke with "Beowulf's request", it's more an answer to base defenses being pointless and worthless in online gaming. Now one won't waste money on them, but will invest into them.

[MT]

TBH, remove the 3rd tier and you have mostly decent plans. Everything in the 3rd tier sounds over-the-top, too powerful, and a huge pain to balance.

The only other thing, although this is more a matter of opinion, is the whole idea of "pillbox->advanced pillbox in next tier" and "gun turret->advanced gun turret". The fact is, if people want a more powerful defence, they'll simply build more of the originals. And if the advanced structures are so much better and cost efficient, than the old ones simply won't be used; they'll just wait until they can build the newer versions.

It's like having a a small power plant, medium power plant, large power plant, huge power plant, then ultra-super-mega powerplant. Pointless redundency.
You only usually need one type, and maybe an just one more advanced type (so 2) if you need to free up space in your base, but that's all.

Edited by MT, 18 November 2009 - 11:28 PM.

[feillyne]

TBH, remove the 3rd tier and you have mostly decent plans. Everything in the 3rd tier sounds over-the-top, too powerful, and a huge pain to balance.

The only other thing, although this is more a matter of opinion, is the whole idea of "pillbox->advanced pillbox in next tier" and "gun turret->advanced gun turret". The fact is, if people want a more powerful defence, they'll simply build more of the originals. And if the advanced structures are so much better and cost efficient, than the old ones simply won't be used; they'll just wait until they can build the newer versions.

It's like having a a small power plant, medium power plant, large power plant, huge power plant, then ultra-super-mega powerplant. Pointless redundency.
You only usually need one type, and maybe an just one more advanced type (so 2) if you need to free up space in your base, but that's all.

You're mostly right, but there are some nuances. ASM's reality is that 2-tier enabling buildings like Soviet Ops Center will cost around $3500, then I'll slow preparation of them by 50%, i.e. their build time will be around 150% or even 200%.

It's all aimed at making legal "meat grinder", when you can play a while with regular 1-tier units and base defenses, then build some advanced ones.

So 3-tier base defenses should stay if you won't see them too soon. :-) They should be efficient and cost less b/c of long waiting for them.

I'm thinking now about changing their (2-tier enabling buildings) costs to around $5000, and making them 50% slower to build. Also, Battle Labs would cost some 7500 bucks then, and were 50% slower to build too. It'd make battles very long and challenging.

Edited by feillyne, 19 November 2009 - 12:01 AM.

[Speeder]

I think it's time to change the name of your mod, eh?

[feillyne]

I think it's time to change the name of your mod, eh?

Maybe later on. ;-) It will be always 'a small mod', anyway. :-)

[Mig Eater]

I'm speechless... o.0

[feillyne]

I'm speechless... o.0

Thanks, if it was a compliment. ;-)

Below updates, this time some first "concepts", alpha/beta versions of base defences from the above plan:

Pillbox:


The last one was intended to be a lunar version one, but can be the 3rd tier base defense, as well.



Prism Tower (didn't check if prism tower logic works for 2 base defenses/buildings, though):

[SMxReaver]

You know, that wasn't a compliment. What a completely repulsive idea.

[feillyne]

You know, that wasn't a compliment. What a completely repulsive idea.

Thanks the more. I'm on the good track, then.

[Mig Eater]

You can only have one prism tower BTW.

[Apollo]

You can only have one prism tower BTW.

Yes indeed, unless don't mind losing the link-up feature.

[Lee]

Let the man do what he wants, it's his mod.

[Beowulf]

That doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

[FallenDwarf]

Let the man do what he wants, it's his mod.

yea agree, dunno why everyone is against this guy. I think his mods look good, better than most mods out there

[Speeder]

Yer, and I haven't seen that much flaming (a.k.a. "constructive criticism") in any of those SERIOUSLY stupid mod's discussion threads so maybe we'll all just get along? ^^

Edited by Speeder, 20 November 2009 - 10:08 PM.

[Beowulf]

The shitty mods know they're shitty and don't try to ram bad ideas down your throat disguised as if they were the best ideas EVAR.

[Speeder]

Who cares.

[Beowulf]

People who appreciate professionalism in any product.

[some_weirdGuy]

QUOTE (Mig Eater @ Nov 20 2009, 07:30 AM) *
You can only have one prism tower BTW.
---------------

Yes indeed, unless don't mind losing the link-up feature.

Perhaps that can be the advantage of the next tier prism tower? first one just attacks normally, second one has the link up feature?



----
but i think lots of these are fairly redundant. As in why use the worse one when the better one is available.
Maybe it it worked on upgrade logic it might make more sense having so many (as in build normal pillbox, then later the upgrade can be bought, working kinda like the component towers in tib sun that gdi has. You build the upgrade and place it over the top of the thing that it upgrades.)

[feillyne]

You can only have one prism tower BTW.

Yes indeed, unless don't mind losing the link-up feature.

Thanks.

Perhaps that can be the advantage of the next tier prism tower? first one just attacks normally, second one has the link up feature?

Very thanks for the idea, man. I'll use it.

but i think lots of these are fairly redundant. As in why use the worse one when the better one is available.
Maybe it it worked on upgrade logic it might make more sense having so many (as in build normal pillbox, then later the upgrade can be bought, working kinda like the component towers in tib sun that gdi has. You build the upgrade and place it over the top of the thing that it upgrades.)

Hmm, that's a good question. As I said, tier enabling buildings will be much more expensive and harder to build, i.e. Soviets must build Ops Center for 2-tier units, and Battle Lab for 3-tier. That Battle Lab can cost around $7500, what makes it not just expensive, but also harder to "prepare". To build it, you'd have to wait a good deal of time.
Also additional modifier +50% slower "preparing" of it, could make all more complicated.

And in the result, you'd have the reason why. Why use the worse? Because you wouldn't have the time or the money to tech up.

Upgrades are a good thing, but unfortunately I didn't dig into the differences between TS and RA2 - but if Bio Reactor can be upgraded with infantry, maybe old TS code for building upgrades work too...

Let the man do what he wants, it's his mod.

Thanks for the support of freedom.

yea agree, dunno why everyone is against this guy. I think his mods look good, better than most mods out there

Thanks, too. I don't think it's better than any mod, it just is. It is a mod, and I don't care if better or worse than others. I just care to make it as different from other mods as possible.

Yer, and I haven't seen that much flaming (a.k.a. "constructive criticism") in any of those SERIOUSLY stupid mod's discussion threads so maybe we'll all just get along? ^^

Well, you can leave these nobs to their own snobbism, it's the only remedy. ;-)

Real staffers and real experts don't have time for such supposedly "shitty" mods. So, they themselves prove how good they are. Modding "eagles" just don't have any time for bullshit, and if they have, they have it not for vulgar words or convincing others about the quality - but for real and (first of all) very short advice.

So who's ramming what?

I never said and I'll never say that ASM is good... or bad. IT just IS, one can take it just as it is, or not take it at all (well, there always some variations and other ways, never mind -_-).


Postmortem: the mod aims were specified:
http://forums.revora...showtopic=74820

Edited by feillyne, 21 November 2009 - 07:16 AM.