135 replies to this topic

[PeeWee]

Please can you explain what is causing those lags?
What time is most possible to catch you on hamachi?

i got now lagg here, maybe 1-2 times but then not more

maybe your pc is to slow? give some specs here!

Lol i have no lags asus directCU 460gtx 1Gb i5-750(quad core) (2,66-3,2ghz with turbo boost and up to 4ghz) 4gb ddr3 1666mhz) playing full HD on 24led lcd ;P
Just want to know what cause those lags...

The AI.

[MasterZH]

It is the AI. Tank general causes the worst lag by far, Demo creates almost none. I figured out what was causing it and will be working hard to avoid it in future releases.

I can read lol. But as he sad demo is useing ai too

[Pendaelose]

It is the AI. Tank general causes the worst lag by far, Demo creates almost none. I figured out what was causing it and will be working hard to avoid it in future releases.

I can read lol. But as he sad demo is useing ai too

It's a handful of specific scripts in the AI. When tank general is building his base he runs out of locations the AI considers acceptable to build in. This causes the worst of the lag stutters.

[PeeWee]

It is the AI. Tank general causes the worst lag by far, Demo creates almost none. I figured out what was causing it and will be working hard to avoid it in future releases.

I can read lol. But as he sad demo is useing ai too

It's a handful of specific scripts in the AI. When tank general is building his base he runs out of locations the AI considers acceptable to build in. This causes the worst of the lag stutters.

Is this AI-basebuilding area set per map? If it is, maybe a 4-player map the size of a 6-player map with larger base areas would do the trick?

Or maybe not...

[Capt.Drake]

Well it is infact done for each map individually

[PeeWee]

So would that maybe work as a workaround?

[Pendaelose]

the problem goes a little deeper...

The AI has 4 commands that let it build it's base.

The first is just "Build x". It checks a file in the mod to pull the location (relative to the starting command center) and will build on that spot, or as close to that spot as it can. A Fully developed base is actually much larger than the build area on many small/medium maps, so while trying to use this the AI will often flip out a little and build overlapping structures etc. While looking for a build spot the system lags terribly.

The second command is "Build x on Front" and the third is "Build x on Flank". These both do essentially the same thing. The AI tries to place the building on the edge of it's build zone in the direction assigned. This works somewhat, but once you've built until the front or flank is full it can start having issues. Tank General has a problem with this because he never stops building. (The loading screen is an AI built base)

The fourth command is "Build x near a supply source with x resources remaining". This is intended in the source code as a way to make the AI build a supply center near a supply dock. Now, having seen all 4 commands, you'll notice this is the only command that can tell it to build in a location other than the default start base (which runs out of space quickly). A robust, durable, AI needs to build at least one expansion base and a backup of every core building in an alternate location. The "Build near resources" command is the only one that can do this, but Resource locations can have random amounts of space, sometimes it's a whole new spawn area with room for 2 bases, sometimes it's a nook where you couldn't fit a base defense. The AI struggles with trying to figure out how to place it's buildings around the supply dock. If it builds just one of each extra building it's not too bad... this is what AirF general does, and while he creates some lag it's not as bad as Tank general, who never stops trying to build.

The final solution... I have to re-script the base building behavior on Tank general, and possibly AirF general. Demo general builds no extra buildings, making his base extremely frail. So he needs to be re-scripted too... A compromise somewhere between Demo and AirF generals is the way to go.

[MasterZH]

Thanks this is answer for my question...
Anyway its good to have good ai to practic or yours to challenge but dont waste too much time on it. Balance and mp is priority

[phenom1989]

cool to know Pend

that sounds nice.

anyaway. i got an bug when i play on 8 players map or 6 or somtimes 4,

2 or 3 of the enemy didn't build all, only Barracks and comand centerand war factory, sometimes i takes 1 hour then he building Palace Scud storm etc etc

p.s ignore the cheats
here i uploaded an screenshot ->

Attached Files

•  sshot040.bmp   2.25MB   58 downloads

Edited by phenom1989, 03 January 2011 - 03:44 PM.

[Pendaelose]

cool to know Pend

that sounds nice.

anyaway. i got an bug when i play on 8 players map or 6 or somtimes 4,

2 or 3 of the enemy didn't build all, only Barracks and comand centerand war factory, sometimes i takes 1 hour then he building Palace Scud storm etc etc

p.s ignore the cheats
here i uploaded an screenshot ->

2 things can cause that... one is Tournament mode. The other is if certain buildings are destroyed in the Demo General's base it has a very hard time recovering. It doesn't always replace structures, especially if it considers the area where they were lost still dangerous.

It's also worth note when I build and test these AI's I only use 1-3 in a match at the most. More than 3 AI's and your BEGGING for a system crash. They build too many units and cap the game out. The AI was designed for 1vs1 and does best in that environment. I always felt like if you need more than 2 AI's against you than you should be playing a harder difficulty.

[alax]

<!--quoteo(post=828288:date=Nov 17 2010, 12:28 AM:name=ConscriptVodka)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ConscriptVodka @ Nov 17 2010, 12:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=828288"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hey, i found a glitch when playing with the Superweapon general's long arm Heavy missle launchers:

When you deploy them to fire, they they act and fire their missle normally, but when you mobalize them and then click on deploy again, they imediatly reload. I thought it was a graphic glitch but it's not. I got just one of them to fire about 25 misiles in just a few seconds, and you can do it witha group of them.
I thought you might want to know, especillaly since those are some potent missiles.
( you might also want to check the other artillery peices with deploy to make sure they dont either)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


It's caused by the way the game handles switching weapon sets through "riders". It's a great way to change the movement rules and weapons quickly, essential for a strict "deploy" button but it does have a few problems too, in this case an exploitable flaw. If used "as intended" theres no issues, and we're really counting on people to not be douche bags in multiplayer.

Rider swaps are used in several other places in the mod, but this is the most noticable. A related bug/workaround... rider units cannot gain rank... it makes then explode :(

I am looking into alternatives for deployed weapon code, but I haven't seen one I'm happy with yet, so probably not in the next release, but if I do another bug fix patch after that it will probably be included.

what about simply automatically deploying to fire and remaining like that until ordered to move, with out needing the toggle button? like the nuke cannon would do in normal ZH (cant remember if it had a deploy button though)

and also now i finally know why some artillery doesnt gain rank

[Pendaelose]

what about simply automatically deploying to fire and remaining like that until ordered to move, with out needing the toggle button? like the nuke cannon would do in normal ZH (cant remember if it had a deploy button though)

and also now i finally know why some artillery doesnt gain rank

The problem is units constantly find reasons to move just 3 inches, and the guns are packed back up for no reason... then when enemies come in range it has to redeploy. It was bad enough that I simply refused to use them in classic ZH... they were never deployed when I needed them, even if I specifically told them to deploy and wait.

[alax]

what about simply automatically deploying to fire and remaining like that until ordered to move, with out needing the toggle button? like the nuke cannon would do in normal ZH (cant remember if it had a deploy button though)

and also now i finally know why some artillery doesnt gain rank

The problem is units constantly find reasons to move just 3 inches, and the guns are packed back up for no reason... then when enemies come in range it has to redeploy. It was bad enough that I simply refused to use them in classic ZH... they were never deployed when I needed them, even if I specifically told them to deploy and wait.

oh i never really had that problem myself
i always ordered them to guard an area, waited for them to deploy then ordered them to stop so they are deployed where i want them and wont move unless they are blocking the path of something of mine moving through the area

Edited by alax, 03 February 2011 - 08:40 PM.

[Striker26]

Assault Gen's Troop Crawler says that it comes with flamethrowers while it does not.
Airforce Gen's Satellite does not reveal hidden enemies, even though it says on description that it does.
Stealth General's Hero attacks Infantry as slow as he attack vehicles

Edited by Striker26, 09 February 2011 - 12:03 AM.

[Blockhead]

Hi!
Great mod.I'm waiting for next release with all AIs working, hope that you will fix them cuz right now there too many lags, AI is building constantly and just rush infinitely to the extent when 2 AIs build 2-4 buildings on the same spot.

[Commander Def]

Hi, it's really good, but when talking about AI... I understand the insane AI should be challenging, but have all upgrades without upgrading, have all ranks and use all atacking ranks in the beginning.

And they are not balanced, for example, one aggresive Airforce crush two aggresive Tanks like an insect.

well, I have crushed insane tank with infatry heaps, but I want to see any commander who defeated insane airforce, as AI, he has the laser too quickly - complete immunity agaist tank hunters and minigunners are slow to create and no in the beginning

[olli]

Insane AI's are designed to annihilate a single player. They are designed to be for 2 players and up to take on. The AI in the current public version was the "first draft" so to speak.

The next public release will have full AI and it will be re scripted.

The AirF AI aggressive is a bit too aggressive, Pendaelose was experimenting.


@Blockhead

The buildings on top of each other was actually a bug in the original ZH. It's not really Remix related. The problem existed before hand. Pendaelose will explain more.

[Commander Def]

yes, very nice experiment... we must be three to defeat USAF insane AI. Very good job

but in the next version, can you make it not hacking so much? I think AIs should do their upgrades at least for some time period and choose technologies from ranks, not use everything, or something like they will have strategic escalation, but not global and it will take 50% required time to upgrade it

Edited by Commander Def, 18 February 2011 - 04:57 PM.

[Pendaelose]

yes, very nice experiment... we must be three to defeat USAF insane AI. Very good job

but in the next version, can you make it not hacking so much? I think AIs should do their upgrades at least for some time period and choose technologies from ranks, not use everything, or something like they will have strategic escalation, but not global and it will take 50% required time to upgrade it

After a lot of trial and error I found that most AI's, even insane AI can be rushed in the early game and defeated by one or two players with minimal effort... the only fix was to give the AI a HUGE starting advantage in the first 30 seconds. If you have even a snowball's chance in hell of defeating the Insane AI in a 1vs1 it just isn't hard enough. I've made them to be a hard fight for 2-4 experienced Remix players. When I player Comp-Stomp with my friends we play vs Insane, so I honestly know exactly how hard they are, especially AirF general. If it's over the top for you I recommend fighting the Aggressive AI's.

[Commander Def]

well, take out insane USAF is a challenge... now I can choose the map, can choose opponent and he still has his base so earlier than me...

I'll try it until I would won, or until the new contra will be released and I will do it alone!