50 replies to this topic

[Huhnu]

Why exactly are you, Creator, limiting the Second Economy? That has got to be one of the worst changes in 008.

[Therevenage]

Not only limiting , but x10 the outpost of Supply docks , think about how bland gameplay will be when all your doing as china the entire game is spamming tanks since the secondary economy is basically gone, and Supply docks give to fast an amount of money.

and the fact early on supply docks and trucks are x2 the cost?

Stop making balance changes for personal achievement of victory

[Hostile]

Yikes, harsh words for a person who created a mod for you for free?! He's just a human being...

[Huhnu]

Yikes, harsh words for a person who created a mod for you for free?! He's just a human being...

I don't quite see harsh words in my post, if you are taking it that way. I'm asking a simple question. :/

[Flip1299]

Maybe have a 3 tier secondary supply system?

1st tier is cheap and has a low limit.
2nd tier is expensive and has a moderate limit.
3rd tier is very expensive and has no limit.

Could remove 2nd tier for a 2 tier system. As long as there's no limit to rate of income, few will complain.

Edited by Flip1299, 21 July 2010 - 08:51 PM.

[ApOcOlYpS]

The reason for doing so is to remove the type of gameplay I hate (no I didn't present the idea):

One person sits behind defenses and spends all extra cash on black markets/SDZ/hackers. Because of this, they have a near unlimited supply (for when they are building things) and defenses that are extremely hard to penetrate. The game crawls to a stand still since the other player can't breach the defenses but the defensive player can't attack (yet). Then the game becomes a spam war of who can overwhelm their opponent with units, which in my mind is extremely dull.

[lil tasman]

Going along with that, if you are doing a 4v4 or something like this, one player can rack up the cash and give it out to other players for them to build endless amounts of units and defenses to attack the enemy. As said above, it ends up in a scenario of who has more units.
It was either limit the supplies, or the units

[Huhnu]

The reason for doing so is to remove the type of gameplay I hate (no I didn't present the idea):

One person sits behind defenses and spends all extra cash on black markets/SDZ/hackers. Because of this, they have a near unlimited supply (for when they are building things) and defenses that are extremely hard to penetrate. The game crawls to a stand still since the other player can't breach the defenses but the defensive player can't attack (yet). Then the game becomes a spam war of who can overwhelm their opponent with units, which in my mind is extremely dull.

Defenses are easy to penetrate, you have artillery and super units for a good reason.

[Therevenage]

the fact is C&C universe is about games Long and serious like that , During my vZH online days that was never a problem at all , You did not have to remove the Supply thing and nor did you need to restrict the unit building to , the Money sharing thing is the main problem , and afaik a player spamming supplies in the back was NEVER EVER a problem in vZH. and so can be not a problem in contra. Players should earn there money equaly

[Creator]

Why exactly are you, Creator, limiting the Second Economy? That has got to be one of the worst changes in 008.

Many games go this way:
1st stage: people rely on supply centers and gather resources.
2nd stage: people build money generators.
3rd stage: supply docks are empty and people rely on money generators only. They build 20+ Black Markers, 10+ Internet centers and so on.

The game goes normaly on 1st and 2nd stages. But when 3rd stage comes, players sit behind their defenses and build large armies. There is no any stimulus of going somewhere and fighting for something. Such game ends with disconnect the most of times because game engine can not sustain thousands of units.

My aim is to prevent disconnects and make the game more dynamic. I increased ammount of recources in supply docks to make them almost infinite. In addition, I made oil derricks respawnable. So, there will be reasons to hold oil derricks and supply docks. There is no way to increase money income infinitely without going out of you base. So, the game will be more dynamic. The more space you control - the more income you have. Overall money income is limited too. Ammount of money generators is limited for each player and ammount of supply sources is limited on the map. Units building speed was lowered too. Thus, players will not be able to build thousands of units quickly because of money income limit and building speed reduction. And hence, disconnect will come much later. The most probably, players will attack and end the game before disconnect.

PS: In addition, we found the way of how to increase multiplayer game reliability and lower mismatch and disconnect probability. So, all these measures together will give reliable multiplayer gameplay.

and the fact early on supply docks and trucks are x2 the cost?

Becaue of rushes. It is too easy to rush and win the game in 3 minutes in Contra 007. But supply centers and trucks cost more now and rushers will have less money to build an attack team. Hence, rush will come later and will be weaker. In addition, supply centers have 2 times more armor. Hence, it will be more difficult for rushers to bring much harm. Rush will stay useful anyway, but will be harder to implement. And thus, games will last longer than 3 minutes.

Edited by Creator, 23 July 2010 - 08:09 AM.

[dcesarec]

I am ok with that, but can something be done with china hackers because they are used in combat as well as money generators. SO my suggestion is, dont make them limited. But disable money stealing option when they are not in centers. So they will be used in combat only, and when they enter in center, they supply money. Is this possible?

[Arcadian Daze]

how about 2 types of hackers?

i rarely use them in combat though

[Creator]

I am ok with that, but can something be done with china hackers because they are used in combat as well as money generators. SO my suggestion is, dont make them limited. But disable money stealing option when they are not in centers. So they will be used in combat only, and when they enter in center, they supply money. Is this possible?

Hackers will not be used in combat any more. Their vehicle disabling ability was moved to Jammer trooper.

[Su8perkillr]

and the fact early on supply docks and trucks are x2 the cost?

Becaue of rushes. It is too easy to rush and win the game in 3 minutes in Contra 007. But supply centers and trucks cost more now and rushers will have less money to build an attack team. Hence, rush will come later and will be weaker. In addition, supply centers have 2 times more armor. Hence, it will be more difficult for rushers to bring much harm. Rush will stay useful anyway, but will be harder to implement. And thus, games will last longer than 3 minutes.

This has got to be a fail. I meank, rushes are hard to use and most of the time easy to defend from. So I dont see why you would make it more expnsive.

[Casojin]

More expensive supply would only be good for rusher because the player who is rushed would waste double of very-hard-to-acquire money on the supply to sustain themselves. They have little chance of recovering from such rush with everything slowed down.

[PeeWee]

All this whyning on 008 makes me sick. Contra is possibly the best mod out there and you should all just be incredibly thankful , since Creator makes this mod in his spare time for himself and us!

I have full faith in that whichever direction with whatever changes Creator decides to make will in the end make the gameplay better and better!

If you don't like it, why not just stick with 007?

[Casojin]

I proposed 007/2 before if it happens that we don't like 008. That would require Creator permission in any case.

[dcesarec]

I have faith in Creators ideas too, but clear mind is telling me "Maybe it wont be the best if you spend 4000 on supply center, and few terrorists which are allowed at game start, and cost all together about 1000 will destroy my 4000 cost structure".

Dunno, the best and easiest way is to wait, and play it

[Creator]

Read once more:
In addition, supply centers have 2 times more armor. Hence, it will be more difficult for rushers to bring much harm.

[Therevenage]

Making supply drops carry 500000$ and limiting the secondary economy really blands out the game as a whole , think about it as china all i have to do is create 2 warfactorys and 2 supplys and spam tanks for 180~ mintues just achieve victory (With a few tech ups here and there) the thing is the mod at that point blands out zero hour on a whole new level , Most players can't stop rushes because they don't take the pateince to try and figure out how to stop them , instead blame a certain element Rage and quit.

Edited by Therevenage, 23 July 2010 - 07:49 PM.