61 replies to this topic

[Nazgûl]

New renders posted!

...what are you planning to make the difference between light and heavy armor be?

Same as the Uruks... In LA we'll hide some of the armor parts - probably leg guards and perhaps even the arm guards.

[KingElessar2384]

Love the new renders But if the Easterling Spearmen are going to be the elite, then I'd consider renaming them maybe to "Guards of the East" or maybe for lore accuracy "Balchoth Warriors."?
Btw, can't wait for renders of Kataphratks and Wainriders;)
Thx

[Nazgûl]

Kataphraks are coming up as soon as we have them rigged... (somewhat trixier than units as the horse has armor, etc). We have the same problem with Wainriders... the horse's "armor", or the cloth hanging on the sides, is not rigged well enough (for my high standards, lol) and the anims are a bit jerky... We'll see what we can do (as in not me, but the team's modelers)

[Predi]

Nice! Very nice models. But I think the archers should have somewhat lighter armor. I don't know why - considering the gondorian archers have the same armor as the soldiers - but I think they should not have those big shoulder plates, or to have a lighter helm or no helm at all for better sight. Don't know what, but something feels odd.
Besides if you are really make Rhún and Harad separate factions, then Rhún will be a very boring faction if all the units wear the same armor...

[Nazgûl]

Gondorian solders all wear the same armor indeed... Swordsmen, Archers and Spearmen. Support troops differ though, like the rangers. The same setup goes for Rhûnic soldiers, and the Khandish troops will differ in style. I understand your point though, but I doubt we'd make any major changed to these units.

[yams in a can]

OHHHH William of Orange an army of these Easterlings would be glorious to look at . I loved how Gondor soldiers all like each other, so I would not mind ^^.

[isledebananas]

This might be a bit of personal thing of mine that no one else shares but just for consideration. I know that you you said the shielded sort of spear guy is the elite and then the just spear guy is the spearmen. However, what if you changed things around a bit. In Gamesworkshop the regular spearmen have a shield as well, but a spear like the SEE spearmen. Whereas the elite guys seem to have the unique weapon only and nothing else. Perhaps if you switched those two around to match the Gamesworkshop version.

Before saying you don't want to copy GW I noticed something in that usually the elite units of all factions in SEE only have weapons, and don't possess any shielding at least now that you scrapped the previous Isengard elite. It kind of makes them easily identifiable and shows their combat prowess in that they don't need any special defensive implement. One last thing is that I believe they should be reskinned to once again make them stand out a bit since its a quality possessed by most elite faction units except orc ones since they aren't big on art and design. Not anything complex under this is an example.

[KingElessar2384]

Don't the Rohan Royal Guards have shields?(wrong topic)

[Nazgûl]

The short one is SPEAR, the long one is a PIKE! Google the difference =)

Here's a little more in depth regarding these weapons...

The Easterlings had three principal weapons, the halberd, the scimitar, and the recurved composite bow (for they were known to be skilled archers). The steel-bladed wooden halberd came in two sizes: the nine-foot halberd was used for porcupine formations and phalanx marches, while the five-foot one was used as a basic soldier's weapon. All halberds were spiked on the top(on the five-foot one it had a pike on the bottom too)and had downward-curving, serrated axe-blades, and below that halberds were backed by a curved spike; on the nine-foot one it was used to trip enemy horses while on the five-foot one it was used for piercing armor and deflecting if not disarming enemy blades. The axe blade featured a hole creating the curve; on the nine foot one it was used for gripping enemy horses' legs to bring them into their comrades' pikes, on the short one it was used for disarming the opponent. This was a truly versatile weapon that could be used both offensively and defensively.

More HERE!

[Námo]

That 'wikia' is not a reliable source, and the section on weapons is pure fantasy, speculation without any foundation in the lore of Tolkien.

[NewErr]

I kinda had the same feeling .

[Námo]

About the only reliable on-line source with general information is The Thain's Book. Every entry has complete references to the sources, which usually is a hallmark of quality.

The Thain's Book's entry on Easterlings

The Encyclopedia of Arda is also accurate, but with short entries, and have no references to sources.

[Gfire]

I love Thain's Book.

[KingElessar2384]

The Easterling Pikemen (with the long ones) should be called Easterling Halberdiers (isn't it a halberd or a poleax?)

[Gfire]

Described as a polearm, nothing specific afaik.

[Nazgûl]

Yeah well, it's "just a name", we could change/edit that at any time =)

[Gfire]

(= yup.

[isledebananas]

Well I'm not really familiar with melee weaponry enough to correctly identify all sorts with the proper names and subtypes, but that wasn't my point. I just thought the elite units of Rhun should look more unique and stand out just like unique units in other factions(sans Isengard). Most either have a size difference, better looking armor, or a weapon difference and are easily identifiable compared to the regular units which are more uniform. Since the helm and armor is basically the same I thought if their main thing was a weapon only(similar to other elites) and a slightly different skin it would be enough to make them stand out.

So I guess I'm saying is maybe give the pikemen a shield, and then remove the shield from the elites and let them just two hand wield their spear. Also, a tad of a reskin like I suggested. I think that would make the normal units look mostly the same and the elite unit look more unique as it should be.

[Nazgûl]

Well, you should know this...

- For every least bit of change in any model (not including skin/textures) the model will have to be re-binded (aka "rigged") to a proper SKL (skeleton) once more, which is very tedious work.

This is because each time we import a W3D model into a 3D program, it looses its texture mapping AND rigging. The SKL is what detirmines what anims the model will use btw. For the chosen elite unit - the "spearmen" - they use the BFME1 Easterling anims (SKL), same as the Gondor spearmen use. These come with a shield - mening they're designed to be used with a shield. The anims for the "pikemen" (the long weapon) use the BFME2 Easterling anims, and they are not adapted for use with a shield. The reason I find the pikemen to be amongst the regular units, is cause they look like the weapons of the large army that entered Mordor in RotK, except that they did indeed carry shields. Also, the anims of the spearmen are not as good (and MANY) as the anims of the pikemen, so since the elite are limited in numbers, you wont get to see it as much ;p

Removing the helmet, say for the archers is a good ide, but once again, the model would have to be rebinded. Adding a cape to the elite might be cool - once more, rebinding is required AND another SKL is needed, that suports animation of a cape.... etc etc

I wish modeling wasn't so tedious, but it is. That's one of the reasons many modelers quit/leave after making a couple of models, or even less. The task is not as fun as it may seem, and it also makes it hard for me to be picky in my role as "director", as I don't wanna scare ppl off with too many edits

[KingElessar2384]

I think you shouldn't remove the helmet from the archers, because they actually had those helmets in the movies, so yeah, you can keep the model the way it is right now:)

Edited by KingElessar2384, 08 December 2010 - 03:24 PM.