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January 25th Update: Mordor Spellbook, Part II


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#21 Nertea

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 06:06 PM

The Balrog and AoTD are interesting because they don't fit with EA's general design paradigm for units, which emphasizes survivability and customization. This is done through the huge focus on unit leveling and upgrades. The issue I have with both of the faction nukes is that they are nukes, and completely invalidate upgrades and levels. Games that use leveling systems reward their players for preserving troops, and BFME does, until the nukes hit the field. At this point it's possible for players to circumvent the leveling and upgrade system entirely. This is made even worse by the fact that both powers act as bombs too, killing everything the're summoned on. So you frusturate the player who has worked hard to preserve and level troops.

A usual counter-argument is that the AoTD/Balrog are reasonably slow and can't chase ALL your units. This is not a good argument! If the single option for a threat is running away from it, then it becomes boring to the player and frusturating to the player using the superpower. I think it's just bad design, honestly. The only reason the stock game gets away with it is because of the rule of cool, even I must admit that the work EALA did with the Balrog is excellent (not so much the AoTD).

Hence, we're getting rid of them. I think late game powers should give a player more options and a distinct advantage, but not one so strong that he can best an opponent's veteran troops instantly with no thought.

I'll add info on other factions' final powers as I get to them.

Edited by Nertea, 27 January 2011 - 06:07 PM.

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#22 yams in a can

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 07:28 PM

That explains it, and I agree!
;)

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#23 Námo

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 08:02 PM

I do fully agree, too ... and apart from the gameplay arguments, this is really much more in accordance with Tolkien's lore than EA's version.

Also, still from the lore point of view, the implementation of Sauron as the Dark Tower Power is simply pure genius. Beautiful and very well done.

Edited by Námo, 27 January 2011 - 08:02 PM.

... elen síla lúmenn´ ómentielvo ...
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#24 Dúnedain76

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 04:02 AM

Definitely looking forward to this. ;)

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#25 SoulFox

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 03:54 PM

My God!!! ;) You're very super good.
I love Dark Tower Spellbook!!! We shall farewell Balrog? ;)
But Isengard faction get an new tower Orthanc? ;)
But Gondor and Rohan get new Spellbook called Light Tower?
I very impress Nertea work high-res skins and models for citadel and structures!
It is sure better than EA's building is not nice! :huh:
I can ask you Nertea. I do not nag you. :lol:
1) Evil faction's resources building the is both two resources. Shall be separate from faction Mordor is Slaughter House and Isengard is Furnace?
2) Good faction's resources building the very like skins farm not nice. Can color building Gondor farm is white stone and Rohan farm is wood?

Right or Wrong?

#26 Baki

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 06:55 PM

Evil faction's resources building the is both two resources. Shall be separate from faction Mordor is Slaughter House and Isengard is Furnace?


No. Both buildings give seperate advantages for both factions, for instance Wargs become cheaper for Isengard and Trolls/Muamkil become cheaper for Mordor the more slaughterhouses you build.
Also keep in mind that you can't build a furnace on an outer economy plot (where you can only choose between a mill and sh).
The question concerning farms:
I doubt that Nertea would do an overhaul, there's really no need for it.
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#27 SoulFox

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 08:18 PM

You are Right!!! Now I am Idiot! I don't konw in Evil faction need more warg and troll from train.
But problem for nummur 2 color for farm.
I very hate EA is suck is bad! :lol:
I remember was I work mods for GTA San Andreas. I make skins safehouse new color rich, gold and more. I work mods in 2005 longer past.
Now end work me. So I can't approved The 3rd Age. Sorry I try get mini mods so I makes color and skins and model for buildings.
I am Skins and model only buildings.
Your will view my mods http://www.thegtapla...nton-safe-house
But I very hopefull future new another new RTS from Warner Bros.

#28 Guest_Der Eremit_*

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 10:04 AM

What happens to the tower's leardership when Isengard casts rain?

#29 {IP}Solstice

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 11:28 PM

I'm guessing that it would be disabled until the freezing rain stops?
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#30 _Haldir_

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 12:26 AM

I'm pretty sure freezing rain/darkness in vanilla BFME only affects leadership for about 3 minutes or so. After that, the leadership stuff wears off, though the visual effects stay there until another weather power is used ;).

The mod is the same, so i'd imagine freezing rain would negate the dark tower leadership for only a few minutes after it's used.

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#31 Guest_Insurance Salesman_*

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 02:50 AM

Just wondering - what incentives will be in place to keep Mordor players building units like orcs, orc archers and haradrim warriors once the dark tower is up? It would be a shame to see such cool (and spammy) units disappear entirely in favor of their far stronger cousins once the game has reached a certain point.

#32 Nertea

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 06:00 AM

Well, Orcs are always free for one, so their role doesn't disappear completely. The distinction between Orcs/Morgul Archers is a bit more fluid however - as I recall, Orcs are still cheaper, but Morgul Archers do more damage. From the Haradrim Palace, Skirmishers still have their anti-infantry bonuses and Poison Arrows, which makes them unique in that respect. Easterling Archers have longer range and are a lot tougher, but can't get any arrow upgrades at all, so they lose out there. Hopefully there are enough safeguards in place to make building the older unit types useful. To some extent though, the DT units are an answer to other factions' late game upgrades.

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#33 Guest_Onodrim_*

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 01:14 PM

Just wondering, in the post you said that any camp or castle outpost could be upgraded to dark tower, but what about outposts? In most maps this would be a pretty stupid thing to do, but what about in maps that only have outposts? I'd hate to see Mordor's greatest weapon become useless.

#34 Guest_Onodrim_*

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 01:15 PM

*Camp or castle citadel.

#35 _Haldir_

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 10:44 PM

Only camp and castle citadels can be upgraded. I'm fairly sure Enedwaith is the only outpost-only map, so I don't think it's a huge problem. And other than making the DT always available for outposts too, there's not really a way around it.

But really, when playing on outpost-only maps, you're most likely going to play offensively, seeing as you haven't got as many buildplots, or a strong base to defend from. In which case, most of mordor's other abilities (eg slave fields of nurn, scavenger, castellan, call the horde, darkness etc) will be even more valuable than usual.

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#36 m@tt

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:54 AM

Only camp and castle citadels can be upgraded. I'm fairly sure Enedwaith is the only outpost-only map, so I don't think it's a huge problem. And other than making the DT always available for outposts too, there's not really a way around it.

But really, when playing on outpost-only maps, you're most likely going to play offensively, seeing as you haven't got as many buildplots, or a strong base to defend from. In which case, most of mordor's other abilities (eg slave fields of nurn, scavenger, castellan, call the horde, darkness etc) will be even more valuable than usual.


Gollum's Cave and Khazad-dum are also outpost only, though Enedwaith was the only vanilla map with just outposts. I may have done another one, but I can't remember.
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#37 Nertea

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 01:11 AM

We'll see how it works. If it's causing problems, I may change it.

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#38 _Haldir_

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 01:29 AM

Gollum's Cave and Khazad-dum are also outpost only, though Enedwaith was the only vanilla map with just outposts. I may have done another one, but I can't remember.

Ah yes, i'd forgotten about those two. Embarassing.

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#39 Nertea

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 02:08 AM

Haha, y'see, Khazad-dum is somewhere that I don't want the DT at all :p.

One thing about outpost maps - Good factions don't get their castles, Isengard doesn't get part of their final power.. it's only fair that Mordor lose something as well.

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#40 Guest_Onodrim_*

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 02:34 AM

I guess if you think about, outpost maps generally aren't that large of battles anyway, so I guess most of the time you wouldn't be able to buy the power in the first place.




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