78 replies to this topic

[johnchm.10]

right so as the poll states, pick and choose what you would want to see. few small rules:
dont hate on the units from the Clone Wars era. i included them because in the aftermath of the war, there probably were a number of ships just waiting to be taken, and there are examples of certain Rebel ships being of Clone Wars vintage, like Fortressa or Rebel One.
for the Write in option, post the ship, as well as the reasoning. dont be like "BIGGER SHIPS NAOW!" or anything like that.
if someone writes in a suggestion, and others agree, click on the like button
if youve got a question about why a unit was or wasnt part of the poll, ask about it and either myself, or one of the PR Staff guys will probably be able to answer it
oh last things, for the write ins ships, try not to have any ships DESIGNED after the end of the Galactic Civil War. UPGRADED ships are exempt from this rule, as seen in the J-series X-wings and the Imperial class Star Destroyer armed with Long Range Turbolasers or Gravity Well Projectors.
last thing. for the write ins, avoid adding Imperial designs. yes, some of the ships have had production lines restarted, or have had major upgrade programs under their new owners. but for the most part, these ships have had Hero commanders. that isnt the point of this poll.

[smashedsaturn]

The Mediator and Viscount classes, however they're models are rare (if they exist at all?) and their stats are weak. This being said they;d be excellent additions to the new republic fleet.

[johnchm.10]

i didnt put the Viscount because its designed to be able to take on an Executor, which implies that it is more powerful than the Executor. as it stands, that warship is almost overpowered. in addition, the Viscount herself wasnt actually built until around 25 ABY. i dont even think they managed to build more than one. ive never seen any mention of a sister ship to the Viscount anywhere. some of the stats are incomplete as well
as for the Mediator, that i didnt put because of the lack of a model, and because there arent complete stats on it.

[Zeta1127]

That is not entirely accurate, thanks to The Essential Guide to Warfare that came out a few months ago, there are two more named Viscount-class Star Defenders during the Yuuzhan Vong War, the Bounty and the Krakana, and the Viscount-class stats are nearly as well documented as the Executor-class, unlike most other dreadnought-scale warships.

Of course, the same TEGtW also sided with R. A. Salvatore's perceived authorial intent from Vector Prime with regards to the Viscount compared to the Mediator, in making the Viscount herself a meager 3km prototype for the 17km main line. I really don't care how big the Mediator-class is at this point, since there aren't even any proper stats for it, while there are plenty of stats for the Viscount-class that support the 17km figure.

I unequivocally chose all of the above, especially the rest of the New Class Modernization Program, and I think PR would love to have all them too, but models are the problem.

Edited by Zeta1127, 23 June 2012 - 06:27 AM.

[Chih]

Right, lets see:

What I feel is missing the most from the Alliance/New Republic is definitely Mon Remonda and her sister ships, MC90's and Providence-class Carrier/Destroyers. The Alliance should be a bit lacking in capitals of course, but by the New Republic I feel more capitals/dreadnaughts is needed than the current ones. The MC90 and MC80B would do wonders for late game capital unit variety. The Providence-class should make a great canonical addition to early Alliance fleets as well. These ships I want to see the most.

What I wouldn't mind, but don't feel is really necessary are the Assassin class Corvette and Nebula class destroyer / Endurance class carrier. Out of these I'd rather see the Assassin class, in both Imperial and Alliance use.

What I'd prefer not so see is the munificient class. I don't feel it is really needed, the Alliance has enough frigates as it is. What role exactly would the Munificient serve that the existing frigates can't?

Lucrehulk I wouldn't mind if it was just the Fortressa, but I don't want to see Lucrehulks as buildable and upgradable ships.

I don't really feel that the YT-2400 is needed either. Maybe as a late upgrade to YT-2000 it could work. But not as a unit of its own.

Edited by Chih, 22 June 2012 - 08:47 AM.

[johnchm.10]

That is not entirely accurate, thanks to The Essential Guide to Warfare that came out a few months ago, there are two more named Viscount-class Star Defenders during the Yuuzhan Vong War, the Bounty and the Krakana, and the Viscount-class stats are nearly as well documented as the Executor-class, unlike most other dreadnought-scale warships.

Of course, the same TEGtW also sided with R. A. Salvatore's perceived authorial intent from Vector Prime with regards to the Viscount compared to the Mediator in making in making the Viscount herself a meager 3km prototype for the 17km main line. I really don't care how big the Mediator-class is at this point, since there aren't even any proper stats for it, while there are plenty of stats for the Viscount-class that support the 17km figure.

I unequivocally chose all of the above, especially the rest of the New Class Modernization Program, and I think PR would love to have all them too, but models are the problem.

ah. point taken about the EGW. i seem to have misplaced my copy

Right, lets see:

What I feel is missing the most from the Alliance/New Republic is definitely Mon Remonda and her sister ships, MC90's and Providence-class Carrier/Destroyers. The Alliance should be a bit lacking in capitals of course, but by the New Republic I feel more capitals/dreadnaughts is needed than the current ones. The MC90 and MC80B would do wonders for late game capital unit variety. The Providence-class should make a great canonical addition to early Alliance fleets as well. These ships I want to see the most.

What I wouldn't mind, but don't feel is really necessary are the Assassin class Corvette and Nebula class destroyer / Endurance class carrier. Out of these I'd rather see the Assassin class, in both Imperial and Alliance use.

What I'd prefer not so see is the munificient class. I don't feel it is really needed, the Alliance has enough frigates as it is. What role exactly would the Munificient serve that the existing frigates can't?

Lucrehulk I wouldn't mind if it was just the Fortressa, but I don't want to see Lucrehulks as buildable and upgradable ships.

I don't really feel that the YT-2400 is needed either. Maybe as a late upgrade to YT-2000 it could work. But not as a unit of its own.

the Providence i put as a counter to Venators. i would love to see one acting as a Super-carrier role (a Super-carrier is just a large carrier carrying a large number of aircraft. the Nimitz class carriers in the US Navy are the prime examples)

the MC80B and MC90 i put just for that reason

Assassin i put because it seems like a evolution of the DP-20 in terms of armaments, and they were common in some of the earlier LA games especially in TIE Fighter.

Nebula/Endurance because they were the end result of a major ship building program

Munificent frigates i put because they have some long range firepower that compliments the Recuscant-class Destroyer, they would have been available in great numbers at the end of the Clone Wars, and you wouldnt need to make them buildable for the Alliance/New Republic

Lucrehulks: good point, there were probably a bunch at the end of the Clone Wars as well, so they could be unbuildable.

the 2400 i put as a possible Fourth-Tier transport because the New Republic would have allowed for increased trade (due to lower taxes and a policy of not blockading worlds (in most cases), meaning more and more advanced trading craft

[Phoenix Rising]

If we added the Viscount, it'd go at Level 5. Even if it is better (it is, at least, much newer), the Empire would still have a huge head start on dreadnaughts. Not to mention, the Sovereign would one-shot kill a Viscount.

The standard Providence (not Invisible Hand) isn't a carrier, so it wouldn't work as a Venator-equivalent. Not sure what to make of the designation, but those are the stats.

[johnchm.10]

yeah that was my fault for not specifying that part. i was implying the Invisible Hand modification, but with somewhat reduced firepower. a hundred Proton Torpedo launchers is too much in of itself.
unless you can think of another Super-carrier style Capital Ship, of course

Edited by johnchm.10, 23 June 2012 - 03:50 AM.

[smashedsaturn]

yeah that was my fault for not specifying that part. i was implying the Invisible Hand modification, but with somewhat reduced firepower. a hundred Proton Torpedo launchers is too much in of itself.
unless you can think of another Super-carrier style Capital Ship, of course

Thats what the Lucerehulk is, they had pretty low firepower but a lot of fighters

The viscount would make a great counter to late game SSD spam, versus a sovereign it would still loose unless the player warped in a bunch of bombers to weaken it before bringing in the viscount

[Chih]

The standard Providence (not Invisible Hand) isn't a carrier, so it wouldn't work as a Venator-equivalent. Not sure what to make of the designation, but those are the stats.

Maybe the the mark 1 version could be a standard providence, and then further upgrades give it a carrier role instead?

Or if it's too much, then there could simply be a few carrier modified Providence class ships at the start of the campaign. Or possibly even just the Rebel One.

[johnchm.10]

yeah that was my fault for not specifying that part. i was implying the Invisible Hand modification, but with somewhat reduced firepower. a hundred Proton Torpedo launchers is too much in of itself.
unless you can think of another Super-carrier style Capital Ship, of course

Thats what the Lucerehulk is, they had pretty low firepower but a lot of fighters

The viscount would make a great counter to late game SSD spam, versus a sovereign it would still loose unless the player warped in a bunch of bombers to weaken it before bringing in the viscount

The standard Providence (not Invisible Hand) isn't a carrier, so it wouldn't work as a Venator-equivalent. Not sure what to make of the designation, but those are the stats.

Maybe the the mark 1 version could be a standard providence, and then further upgrades give it a carrier role instead?

Or if it's too much, then there could simply be a few carrier modified Providence class ships at the start of the campaign. Or possibly even just the Rebel One.

the Lucerehulk version im using, the Clone Wars version, packs hundreds of weapons emplacements. i wouldnt want it buildable, as that would be too much. i would have it as its a Clone Wars Hold-over. the Alliance had to have acquired at least a couple of them.
for the Providence, like i said, if its in, i would scrap a lot of those torpedo launchers. something like 20 tops. they would be in as holdovers as well, as the Invisible Hand-variants with the large fighter capacity. i wouldnt change the capacity, as the Alliance/New Republic has always had smaller fighter wings. maybe a small number of hero vessels get the additional launchers. having anything of the size of the Providence carrying a hundred torpedo launchers is simply absurd. yeah the Victory-1 carries 80 missile launchers, and is smaller, but its got more surface area with which to mount those launchers, and fewer other weapons, as well as systems to interfere with the installation of the launchers

[smashedsaturn]

yeah that was my fault for not specifying that part. i was implying the Invisible Hand modification, but with somewhat reduced firepower. a hundred Proton Torpedo launchers is too much in of itself.
unless you can think of another Super-carrier style Capital Ship, of course

Thats what the Lucerehulk is, they had pretty low firepower but a lot of fighters

The viscount would make a great counter to late game SSD spam, versus a sovereign it would still loose unless the player warped in a bunch of bombers to weaken it before bringing in the viscount

The standard Providence (not Invisible Hand) isn't a carrier, so it wouldn't work as a Venator-equivalent. Not sure what to make of the designation, but those are the stats.

Maybe the the mark 1 version could be a standard providence, and then further upgrades give it a carrier role instead?

Or if it's too much, then there could simply be a few carrier modified Providence class ships at the start of the campaign. Or possibly even just the Rebel One.

the Lucerehulk version im using, the Clone Wars version, packs hundreds of weapons emplacements. i wouldnt want it buildable, as that would be too much. i would have it as its a Clone Wars Hold-over. the Alliance had to have acquired at least a couple of them.
for the Providence, like i said, if its in, i would scrap a lot of those torpedo launchers. something like 20 tops. they would be in as holdovers as well, as the Invisible Hand-variants with the large fighter capacity. i wouldnt change the capacity, as the Alliance/New Republic has always had smaller fighter wings. maybe a small number of hero vessels get the additional launchers. having anything of the size of the Providence carrying a hundred torpedo launchers is simply absurd. yeah the Victory-1 carries 80 missile launchers, and is smaller, but its got more surface area with which to mount those launchers, and fewer other weapons, as well as systems to interfere with the installation of the launchers

Well the best option then is to have several battleship variants be starting forces, and have a buildable squishy version that just carries a metric shitton of fighters to represent converting from freighters, these would then be upgradeable, sort of like the escort carriers

[Chih]

Well the best option then is to have several battleship variants be starting forces, and have a buildable squishy version that just carries a metric shitton of fighters to represent converting from freighters, these would then be upgradeable, sort of like the escort carriers

Considering the impact on GC performance, that is actually the worst option, unless other existing units are cut from somewhere. If there has to be multiple variants, the best approach for it is likely the same as with the Liberty Cargo Cruiser or Reef Home Star Surveyor.

Edit:

Although in general, when adding these new units performance will take a hit if the units were implemented directly. The PR team prolly knows though and will work around it. But still - considering the causes of lag I'm hoping that performance before units takes priority.

Edited by Chih, 23 June 2012 - 06:05 PM.

[Kitkun]

Personally, I'd like to see the Nebula more than anything else. The Republic is decent, but it's not quite a backbone ship, leaving the NR heavily dependent on the Mon Cal ships. Also nice in that it's a late design, whereas most ships in the mod are at techs 1 and 2. Plus it looks awesome. The Endurance is horridly ugly, though.

I also wonder why the Recusant is buildable, but if you have that, might as well have the other CIS ships. YT-2400 is also at least more iconic than the YT-2000. Could replace the 2000 entirely.

Not sure on the Mon Cal ships, though. On one hand, they're important designs. On the other, and again, they already rely on Mon Cal ships heavily, and the Empire doesn't have any newer capitals to compete with them.

In the end, I'm always for more and more units.

Edit: No other place does my spelling and grammar fail, only this forum. Why?

Edited by Kitkun, 23 June 2012 - 07:54 PM.

[Zeta1127]

Kitkun, are you talking about TEGtW version of the Endurance-class fleet carrier, because that is more consistent with the Nebula-class Star Destroyer and looks a lot better than the CTD version. Then again very few things in CTD looked right in the first place. What can I say, I am a major proponent of the New Class Modernization Program, which is why I was disappointed when NJO ignored them completely, when they were the backbone of the New Republic.

[Kitkun]

Yep, I dislike even the newer image. Just about anything is better than most of the pictures in CTD, too.

[johnchm.10]

Personally, I'd like to see the Nebula more than anything else. The Republic is decent, but it's not quite a backbone ship, leaving the NR heavily dependent on the Mon Cal ships. Also nice in that it's a late design, whereas most ships in the mod are at techs 1 and 2. Plus it looks awesome. The Endurance is horridly ugly, though.

I also wonder why the Recusant is buildable, but if you have that, might as well have the other CIS ships. YT-2400 is also at least more iconic than the YT-2000. Could replace the 2000 entirely.

Not sure on the Mon Cal ships, though. On one hand, they're important designs. On the other, and again, they already rely on Mon Cal ships heavily, and the Empire doesn't have any newer capitals to compete with them.

In the end, I'm always for more and more units.

Edit: No other place does my spelling and grammar fail, only this forum. Why?

Kitkun, are you talking about TEGtW version of the Endurance-class fleet carrier, because that is more consistent with the Nebula-class Star Destroyer and looks a lot better than the CTD version. Then again very few things in CTD looked right in the first place. What can I say, I am a major proponent of the New Class Modernization Program, which is why I was disappointed when NJO ignored them completely, when they were the backbone of the New Republic.

Yep, I dislike even the newer image. Just about anything is better than most of the pictures in CTD, too.

Kit, dont worry bout the grammar, lol
well, heres a thought, and feel free to bash me on this one. we make our own modifications to the Endurance. i mean, the basic Nebula-class hull looks good, and it seems like it could be modified without making the ship look dumb, and as long as we keep the overall hull shape it should be fine. i know it kinda goes a bit against Canon, but i think in this case, a little bit of work and the ship could win Ms Universe.

hell, we could make a contest out of this.
whomever can submit the best redesign of the Endurance would get their model in the game. the only rules would be that the revised design has to
a) maintain an overall similarity to the Nebula.
b) concentrate on Hanger Facilities. Communication/Sensor equipment and Command/Control Facilities would be acceptable. like, adding a couple extra Comm dishes or a larger Bridge area is fine. adding a Gravity Well projector, not fine. additional Engines, thats a bit iffy. on the one hand, the Endurance might need a little extra thrust, but on the other, its running all these extra systems, so that might not be a good idea, unless their purpose is for maneuverability. lets see. oh,
c) Cosmetic additions: try to limit them, or make them tasteful. Nameplates are fine. if youre a football fan, and want to put the FC Bayern Munich logo, sure, fine. Nose-art; keep it tasteful. NO NUDITY. different paint scheme, sure, just keep it on the simple side
d) it might be tempting, but having Battle Damage on the ship might make the design a little harder to mod, unless you give a drawing of each side (Port/Starboard/Aft/Forward/Dorsal/Ventral) and the damage is from a different image.
e) if its not modeled, try to have views from all six sides. for those who dont know, those sides are Port (left side), Starboard (right side), Aft (back of the ship), Forward (front of the ship), Dorsal (top of the ship), and Ventral(bottom of the ship). if your modifications are symmetric on Port and Starboard, then you dont have to give both, just indicate so
f) if you are going to model the ship in a 3d modeling program, use what the modders use so they dont have to do that much work.

of course, all of this is dependent on if the modders decide to use the Endurance.

[smashedsaturn]

Well the best option then is to have several battleship variants be starting forces, and have a buildable squishy version that just carries a metric shitton of fighters to represent converting from freighters, these would then be upgradeable, sort of like the escort carriers

Considering the impact on GC performance, that is actually the worst option, unless other existing units are cut from somewhere. If there has to be multiple variants, the best approach for it is likely the same as with the Liberty Cargo Cruiser or Reef Home Star Surveyor.

Edit:

Although in general, when adding these new units performance will take a hit if the units were implemented directly. The PR team prolly knows though and will work around it. But still - considering the causes of lag I'm hoping that performance before units takes priority.

It's not a hit to performance, you have tech 0 be the clone wars battleship, tech 1 be the freighter, and levels 2-4 be the NR battleships

[Chih]

Well the best option then is to have several battleship variants be starting forces, and have a buildable squishy version that just carries a metric shitton of fighters to represent converting from freighters, these would then be upgradeable, sort of like the escort carriers

Considering the impact on GC performance, that is actually the worst option, unless other existing units are cut from somewhere. If there has to be multiple variants, the best approach for it is likely the same as with the Liberty Cargo Cruiser or Reef Home Star Surveyor.

Edit:

Although in general, when adding these new units performance will take a hit if the units were implemented directly. The PR team prolly knows though and will work around it. But still - considering the causes of lag I'm hoping that performance before units takes priority.

It's not a hit to performance, you have tech 0 be the clone wars battleship, tech 1 be the freighter, and levels 2-4 be the NR battleships

You said several variants as starting forces, but what you mean is a regular unit afterall?

Anyway rule of the thumb is the more units and upgrades, the worse the hit on performance.

[skie9173]

Providence class and Lucrehulk class as special starting forces/heroes (Gizor Dellso could use one or the other as an upgrade, Fortressa and Rebel One being other hero units)
Also I'd like to point out that for the Lucrehulk class to be presented porperly its compliment would have to be pretty low grade. Maybe mid level Z-95s, early-mid level wings, early to mid Starchasers. Maybe the earliest X-wings/R-22 Spearheads at higher levels. Fortressa had 500ish X-wings yes but they almost had to be prototype grade or very low quality for the Alliance to have gathered so many after just acquiring earlier.


All of New Class should be added eventually I feel but as of now there are units that can feel the same roles that the New Class vessels serve mainly.
The MC90 conflicts slightly with my write in, the Dauntless Class heavy cruiser. I’ve always liked the Dauntless for some reason. Doing a few rough calculations and estimations give it just a few more turbolasers than the MC90 and more Ion Cannons, but no evidence of Proton Torpedoes and fewer fighter. The Dauntless is a SoroSuub design, thus diversifying the Rebel/NR fleet slightly. Perhaps if it were eventually added (eviljeedi does have a model it looks like) it could be more combat focused with Power to Weapons rather than Power to Sheilds as seen in most Mon Cal designs. Also its “excellent sensors and countermeasure systems” could be represented by sensor pings or jamming respectively. There is a named Dauntless now and at least one is shown at the battle of Yag’Dhul (Vong war so after out time period, but still support for them in Canon)
http://starwars.wiki...s_heavy_cruiser

Edited by skie9173, 24 June 2012 - 09:15 PM.