78 replies to this topic

[johnchm.10]

It's simpler than that: the stats are fanon. Why build a modern ship with 80 heavy warhead launchers when the Victory I phased them out 45 years ago? It's backwards.

i think the Warhead Launchers might have been due to the Vong. if you were to load the tubes with fragmentation warheads like Flechette warheads, you could overload their defenses.

[Phoenix Rising]

No, the Majestic was not ready for Thrawn or the reborn Emperor.

I don't remember anything like that with regard to fragmentation in NJO, johnchm.

[johnchm.10]

correction
a missile that fired dozens of decoy projectiles designed to emulate proton torpedoes and distract the Yuuzhan Vong defensive dovin basals

ok so its not exactly like Canister Shot, but i imagine that the projectiles could do some damage by themselves
i guess its more like Window/Chaff-type countermeasures, mixed in with some Claymore-Mine

ripped that of the Battle For Borlieas (Yuuzhan Vong War) page

in this case, the first salvo could fire a few of these Missiles. its either going to distract the defenses, or possibly hit the hull and sting a bit. then a second, full salvo of normal missiles is fired off soon after the decoy missiles.

[Phoenix Rising]

Oh, okay. Yeah, it would be possible to create a bunch of empty missiles to overload a point-defense system or force a ship to burn its jamming... not sure if we'll ever have Vong in-game though.

[johnchm.10]

well, the Vong present their own set of problems.

[Zeta1127]

Kaleb Graff had a draft of an essay on the New Republic Fleet and attached a copy of it in the Thoughts on the Tector thread a long time ago. I edited it awhile back, and recently did some more tweaks when I was working on my Republic and Imperial Capital Ship Development essay. I thought you guys, especially Kaleb Graff, might like to see it.
 NewRepublicFleet.doc   35.5KB   35 downloads

[johnchm.10]

sweet merciful satan that is a well written article. regarding the starfighter rank "Wing Commander," i had a thought regarding it. well, 3 thoughts. the only time i can recall that rank being mentioned is during the 1st act of Dark Force Rising, when Han is being debriefed about the fiasco at Sulis Van, and used to describe Wedge Antillies, the Commanding officer of the Alliance's/New Republic's most Elite Squadron.
in the early X-wing comics, i seem to recall Wedge being a Captain, and he was running Rogue Squadron, and at other points, Captains were running full Squadrons, namely Myn Donos running Talon, Tycho Celchu running Rogue when Wedge was running the Wraiths, and then Garik Loran ran the Wraiths when Wedge took up the official duties of being the commander of all fighter squadrons on Mon Remonda, and likely the rest of the Solo Fleet.
ok, enough with the background.

thought 1: there are 2 Commander Ranks, with Wing Commander being the more experienced of the two as well as likely the most skilled. i am not a fan of that system, as the rank of Colonel has been sufficient to have command of a Fighter Wing (Col. Salm in the X-wing Comics), unless they are the same rank, and Wing Commander is just a Naval Variant, as Colonel is more of a Land-Forces rank.

thought 2: ill try to make this as coherent as possible.

Flight officers are any pilot in an Element or Flight of 2-4 fighters that isnt the Flight Leader. the basic grunt of the unit

Lieutenants are Flight Leaders, or in the event of the Squadron Leader being rendered unable to command the unit, as the squadron commander. that would probably be left up to the Commanding Officer of the Squadron or Wing to decide, or if both the Squadron commander and 1 of the Flight Leaders being knocked out, the second Flight leader gets command of the entire unit until a suitable point in time

Captains are typically Squadron Leaders in most line Squadrons (anything that isnt a training, elite, or specialist squad).
I imagine that there might in fact be a branching off point here

Colonels get the command of an Strike (Bomber) Wing of 2-6 Squadrons, typically on the lower side, with 3 Squadrons being the most common.
historically, in the real world, a Colonel is a rank used by Land Forces (the Air-Forces are typically off-shoots of the Army, so im bunching them in with the Land Forces.) in a strict sense, a Bomber wing is more likely to be used to support Ground Forces, due to their ability to carry more/greater firepower than Superiority Fighters. in this case, a greater number of torpedoes, and a better platform from which to use the torpedoes against a ground target

Wing Commanders get command of a Superiority (Fighter/Interceptor) wing, also of 2-6 Squadrons.
a Commander is a Navy rank. i imagine that the Alliance/New Republic Naval Forces would carry a greater number or place greater emphasis on fighters instead of bombers due to the ability of fighters to take on other fighters and bombers which may try to attack their carrier, as well as using the fighters as light strike craft if they have any heavy weapons like missiles or torpedoes. in addition, Capital Ship-based Fighter detachments would have to be fewer in number than Planetary or even possibly Space Station based Fighter detachments, due to space being a premium on ships (not even going near the Executor on this one, although the Canon description of 144 fighters seems a little low for a ship of such size and importance) so this fits the fact that a Commander is actually a lower rank than Colonel (on the NATO scale, a Navy Commander is the same as an Army or Air Force Lieutenant Colonel)

a General would have command of a Starfighter unit of typically 4 or more Squadrons, or of more than a single Fighter Wing, typically as a Commanding Officer of Starfighter Operations on a Planetary Posting, also having the role of Base Commander, or for Task-Force/Fleet Operations, the Air Boss of a Carrier or the entire Fleet, barring certain occasions. Salm did so when he was the Officer in Charge at Folor Base, having his Defender Wing and Commander Antillies' Rogue Squadron, as well as possibly others

the only problem with this system is that to the best of my knowledge, there is no designation of a unit of fighters larger than a Wing of 3-6 Squadrons, despite several incidents where there were far more than 3-6 squadrons of fighters being commanded by the same officer.

thought 3: a small mistake on the part of the author.

[johnchm.10]

so for the Write-ins, pretty much all thats been asked for are more clone wars hold-overs, which yes would be somewhat realistic, but this isnt a clone wars mod, and i personally regard TCW as the work of Satan, the Strident-class Star Defender, which hasn't stats, the Mediator, also lacking stats, and the Viscount, which im not entirely a fan of, and might have to have some of the basic aspects toned down for balance, as when comparing the stats, she would outclass the Executor by a decent margin in most regards. (everything but shield and hull strengths, sub-light performance, and cost compared to the Executor, which i assume would actually be similar, given that the design is an improvement in most categories). incidentally, how would you go about the fighter compliment on that ship? it states on wookie that the ship is packing 18 Squadrons of late model starfighters of various types. you have nearly 10 times that number for the Executor-class Star Dreadnought. granted that the TIE-series has weaknesses compared to their rebel counterparts, and that the fighters are for the most part early models, would you keep the fighter compliment unchanged, with I or J model X-wings and the like, or would you change the numbers or composition of the fighters?

[Zeta1127]

Clone Wars holdovers doesn't mean TCW. I for one ignore TCW and its derivatives with a passion, but welcome the new toys like the Subjugator-class heavy cruiser.

The Star Defenders, the Viscount and Strident-classes, have been turned into a mess by a war between the authors and RPG material, with the authors apparently intending for the New Republic and the Galactic Alliance to not have dreadnought-analogues, while RPG material wants a counter to a Star Dreadnought.

I am pretty sure PR will just keep the complement of 18 squadrons of advance starfighter variants for the Viscount-class.

[smashedsaturn]

I am pretty sure PR will just keep the complement of 18 squadrons of advance starfighter variants for the Viscount-class.

fighter groups maybe? 4 interceptor groups, 6 multirole groups, 4 assault groups, 4 bomber groups? Each group has 3 or 4 squadrons; so interceptor groups are A wings/ starchasers, multirole are X/E wings, Assault are B-wings (or similar), bombers are Y and K wings

[johnchm.10]

Clone Wars holdovers doesn't mean TCW. I for one ignore TCW and its derivatives with a passion, but welcome the new toys like the Subjugator-class heavy cruiser.

The Star Defenders, the Viscount and Strident-classes, have been turned into a mess by a war between the authors and RPG material, with the authors apparently intending for the New Republic and the Galactic Alliance to not have dreadnought-analogues, while RPG material wants a counter to a Star Dreadnought.

I am pretty sure PR will just keep the complement of 18 squadrons of advance starfighter variants for the Viscount-class.

I am pretty sure PR will just keep the complement of 18 squadrons of advance starfighter variants for the Viscount-class.

fighter groups maybe? 4 interceptor groups, 6 multirole groups, 4 assault groups, 4 bomber groups? Each group has 3 or 4 squadrons; so interceptor groups are A wings/ starchasers, multirole are X/E wings, Assault are B-wings (or similar), bombers are Y and K wings

im for the keeping the 3 wings of advanced fighters. having 48 squadrons of mid-level or advanced fighters is too much.
lol, i want to see a nerd fight
TCW: i was only addressing the request from someone to add pretty much all the TCW ships. and i personally like the Venator and some of the other ships from TCW, but i maintain that this isnt a TCW Mod. having some of the ships for the early rebellion is ok, but not all of them

[Madurai]

I'm really more interested in the early rebellion than the post-Endor era. The more Republic/CIS units with hastily-repainted markings there are running around, the better I like it.

[johnchm.10]

the main issue with adding a lot of former CIS ships in my eyes is that the game may become more of a TCW mod. while yes there are models, and yes the rebellion did use at least a few of the former CIS ships, i cant see them serving after 2-7 ABY, if even that. combat losses, maintenance requirements, performance, and their overall age would limit their service lengths post-TCW. and i doubt that there would have been many ships to begin with, as it probably takes a lot of time and resources to convert the ships into those which can be run by organics.
while yes, having some of the older ships is fine, i only put the older craft as a concession.

even in the Mindor book (im using that book since its pretty recent, yet takes place in 5 ABY), not a lot of the ex-TCW ships are up and running in the years of the New Republic, and those that are are either the Bulwark mk 1, which i bet was considered a strategic asset that was kept out of general combat, the Acclamators, used in their designed roles as troop transporters, Dreadnought-class Heavy Cruisers, which were extremely common, given that the Old Republic Navy saw fit to use 200 of them as a test bed for master control technology, and the various support craft/ starfighters that were low on the replacement chain. im not including the Victory or Imperial Classes because of their constant production by the Empire

Edited by johnchm.10, 30 July 2012 - 09:53 PM.

[Zeta1127]

The reason why I reacted the way I did is because, to me, TCW equals the ridiculous and stupid CGI animated cartoon set in its own AU. The only Clone Wars stories I recognized are the Clone Wars multimedia project and its derivatives, and things like at least some of the TCW ships and vehicles.

Edited by Zeta1127, 30 July 2012 - 10:00 PM.

[johnchm.10]

preachin to the choir, zeta. again, having a few is ok, but these guys who want all the older ships, well only thing i can say is go play one of the CW mods out there

[Madurai]

preachin to the choir, zeta. again, having a few is ok, but these guys who want all the older ships, well only thing i can say is go play one of the CW mods out there

Or just break down and set the main campaign start date later than 18BBY.

[johnchm.10]

very true, madurai

[Kitkun]

Yeah, the main thing is that the sandbox campaigns are set right at the end of the Clone Wars. You don't see a whole lot of those ships in the Thrawn Campaign and Shadow Hand.

[johnchm.10]

so. we now have an issue that we have to resolve.
ive got one idea that may be a bit complex, but i feel it would satisfy everyone.
step 1: decide upon a ratio of ships to have. like for every CW-era craft added, we add 2 "modern" craft, or 2 CW:3 Modern, etc.
step 2: decide which weight classes of ship need upgrades/updates the most.
step 3: have a run-off vote. each round would last for a day or 2. at which point, the ship with the fewest votes gets canned. each ship would have a more detailed description (stats, usage, etc) (each time a ship passes onto the next round, the description will be copied/pasted). in case of a tie, both ships will be put on a back burner and held until the end of adding all ships, and if possible, one of the ships shall be used to resolve the conflict.
step 4: if in the event a tie still exists or the ratio cant be resolved, then whichever of the ships has a model that the PR staff can get it
step 5: this would run concurrently with step 3 and 4: the PR staff shall approve the ship, or if it is denied, then we have another run off vote, but with that ship removed from the list of candidates.

questions?

[Kitkun]

Solution: Add everything that has a good model and then rage at the lag.