337 replies to this topic

[Lauri]

Could I ask what reason you have for using that flag for it? The whole thing looks beautiful, but I'm just curious. I seriously don't know if they continued to use that flag or not.

[njm1983]

Love, love, love it. So great looking. I love the dark gothic look. The flag does seem off. But what would be better? Sauron pretty much managed to get everything that was symbolic of the faithful to be destroyed.

 

Edit: So Id suggest something combining the 2 ideas. Eye of Sauron, and something from the Numenore flag... Maybe a crown with the Eye (smaller) above, and the stars. Im just throwing out ideas here... I dont think the tree should be involved at all since it was cut down and burned.

Edited by njm1983, 07 April 2013 - 07:16 PM.

[Irenë Hawnetyne]

Yeah, I had thought about using this type of thing:

The reason being, the Numenoreans pledged to worship Morgoth, and the Morgoth I made was based on this banner design so it seemed appropriate. Then... I don't know, I just didn't use it, and used the original Numenorean flag because I was under the impression, proud of their heritage, they kept the Tree symbol. I'm having a bad modding week. Meh.

Thoughts on using the above in future as the Black Numenorean standard?

[Irenë Hawnetyne]

And thanks for the supporting compliments guys, too.

[Rider of Rohan]

I like it !

[njm1983]

If I recall right. That is actually the banner of the orcs for minas morgul. I might be wrong since it could be a fan based use of it.

[OverLorD in the Dark]

 

[Irenë Hawnetyne]

No, NJM, the Minas Morgul standards this:

 

The Mordor banners of the Eye, Morgoth and such are interchangeable in different Mordor armies.

 

Though I'm conflicted about the use of the Gondor-Under-Sauron flag. I'd have thought Sauron, using the same logic as that to burn the White Tree, would have had all their Tree-esque symbolism torn down.

[MattTheLegoman]

Yep, it is a fan-based use. I have seen it in one of the Lord of the Rings art and design books. Although I don't think the text provided a description of it.

 

Minas Morgul uses the skull and the moon and the tower.

 

And I think you are free to design your own flag. =p

[Irenë Hawnetyne]

Eventually, this is what I went with, a more royal version of Mordor's banner, completely scratch made:

[MattTheLegoman]

Hmmm, when I said free to design I could have also said that we are all free to criticise what you make as well.

 

I will recommend more symbolism. If they aren't worshiping a tree then it will be something else. We still have seven stars, seven stones, and the crown of Numenor. A face seems a less likely candidate for a new symbol in my opinion (same with an eye) - but you might as well make the design more Numenorean and less orcish.

 

About making the design more Numenorean like: the white tree is made of intricate mix of geometric and organic shapes. The face that you have used looks orcish because the design is a like quick paint brush job, as it is uneven and messy. But that is a really nice flag. ;p

[Irenë Hawnetyne]

It is uneven and messy

Someone's obviously not acquainted with modern art, then 

If they aren't worshiping a tree then it will be something else. We still have seven stars, seven stones, and the crown of Numenor. A face seems a less likely candidate for a new symbol in my opinion (same with an eye) - but you might as well make the design more Numenorean and less orcish.

As aforementioned, the flag depicts (rather crudely, I admit) Morgoth after permanently shedding his 'Holy' appearance. Thus it is, that they are instead worshipping him, rather than the White tree; remember Sauron's erection of the Temple to Morgoth in, I think, Armenelos, in which human sacrifices were made.

However I do agree that I'll have to make it a little more Numenorean, and as you say, geometric, rather like complex minimalism.

[Bofur]

It is uneven and messy

Someone's obviously not acquainted with modern art, then 

I didn't think Numenor was exactly modern...

[njm1983]

I should have clarified my post better. I meant that the design is used as an orc flag. Though I have seen it used as the flag for orcs who came from minas morgul. Not the actual minas morgul flag.

I actually like the eye over tree flag above. But I dont think it works for this application.

 

For some reason something along this line looks nice. probably shrink the stars, eye and enlarge the helmet, but mostly I like this since it has all the makings of Numenore with just a touch of sauron

 

Edited by njm1983, 09 April 2013 - 01:36 AM.

[Irenë Hawnetyne]

God help me for your flagging pedanticism! Who knew there'd be so much bother about a single flag 

I will... think about it (considering you've all go different ideas)

[Mathijs]

It seems to me your towers are not outfitted with hatches.

[Kwen]

This is unacceptable! The lack of hatches will sure bring upon ultimate doom for the Black Numenorians. This must be amended!

[njm1983]

Hehe, opinionated I am about this. Its not a big deal though.

Other ideas I had used morgoths crown with the silmarils. I do think that the eye of sauron would be a bit over the top. Would be too symbolic of him having power over the men of numenor, and their subjigation.

[Irenë Hawnetyne]

No hatches?! I apologize profusely for this breach of T3A law; I shall rectify this at once.

 

(On a side note, I've always wanted someone to say that to me. Little victories, I know.)

[Dreamwalker]

I'm thinking that that Morgoth banner up there would be better for mordor; because after all, Sauron wasn't really an eye yet, was he? Would any kind of eye symbol exist in mordor yet?

 

My two cents: use your banner for Morgoth and get a more "numenorey" one for the black numenoreans.