2870 replies to this topic

[mevitar]

A Rhino, a Tier 1 tank having 420 hp.

An Abrams, a Tier 3 tank having 450 hp while costing 1450.

Why??????? Is this some kind of joke?

Rhino Tank, a Tier 1 tank having 420 hp and medium armor.
Abrams Tank, a Tier 3 tank having 450 hp and heavy armor.

Now, send a group of Rhinos against T3 base defenses, then send a group of Abramses. Tell me which ones survived (or don't, i already know).

Also, Tesla Cruisers might have more hp, but they are absolutely worthles against structures. Unlike Abramses, which are good against everything, only much lighter. How does that make them better in every aspect?

[LargoJMK]

can we add build limits to all Tier 3 units and defense buildings?    so that Tier 1 and Tier 2 will not be neglected? 

[X1Destroy]

 

A Rhino, a Tier 1 tank having 420 hp.

An Abrams, a Tier 3 tank having 450 hp while costing 1450.

Why??????? Is this some kind of joke?

Rhino Tank, a Tier 1 tank having 420 hp and medium armor.
Abrams Tank, a Tier 3 tank having 450 hp and heavy armor.

Now, send a group of Rhinos against T3 base defenses, then send a group of Abramses. Tell me which ones survived (or don't, i already know).

Also, Tesla Cruisers might have more hp, but they are absolutely worthles against structures. Unlike Abramses, which are good against everything, only much lighter. How does that make them better in every aspect?

 

AT weapons like rockets and flak rounds are effective against both medium and heavy armor,. The difference isn't all that big.

The Abrams will survive, but they will die easily to persuers as they're already running very low on HP at that point. And they're too expensive to replace unlike Rhinoes.

Tesla cruiser can live longer and kill more stuffs before they're dead, that's why.

Most of the times you won't be able to get the Abrams inside an enemy base to wreck havoc, because 2 hits from a Tier 2 defenses is enough to make it go boom!

You get it to fight enemy units, not for destroying buildings. And sure as hell Tesla Cruiser is better.

Currently I'm using bulldogs spam since they can get away faster, and it doesn't matter if a tank or two is gone.


 

Edited by X1Destroy, 24 January 2014 - 02:40 PM.

[Protozoan]

 

A Rhino, a Tier 1 tank having 420 hp.

An Abrams, a Tier 3 tank having 450 hp while costing 1450.

Why??????? Is this some kind of joke?

Rhino Tank, a Tier 1 tank having 420 hp and medium armor.
Abrams Tank, a Tier 3 tank having 450 hp and heavy armor.

Now, send a group of Rhinos against T3 base defenses, then send a group of Abramses. Tell me which ones survived (or don't, i already know).

Also, Tesla Cruisers might have more hp, but they are absolutely worthles against structures. Unlike Abramses, which are good against everything, only much lighter. How does that make them better in every aspect?

 

 

I would rather use Basswaves against Base Defenses since, y'know, they outrange them... And I won't lose any units that way... I guess if the opponent's base were completely defenseless, and their forces were elsewhere, incapable of getting back to the base in time before some severe damage is caused, then they would probably be effective. In this one, particular scenario. Because anywhere else it seems to be outclassed by it's opponents forces, being too expensive for it's ability to be somewhat effective against infantry and somewhat effective against vehicles, and to be slightly faster than most tanks.

[mevitar]

You get it to fight enemy units, not for destroying buildings. And sure as hell Tesla Cruiser is better.

No, you don't get Abramses to fight enemy units, Tesla Cruisers are for that (and solely for that). If you want to use them as Tesla Cruisers, play Russia. Abramses are anti-everything, and because of that, they are weaker than other T3, dying in a 1vs1 vs a Tesla Cruiser. And while being weak is one thing, saying that Abramses are useless if they can destroy enemy structures while Teslas can't is another. Enough stuff was already said about Abramses being weak, no need to exaggerate on this one. Whatever buffs they receive (if they receive any, because that's not for me to decide), they will never be on equal footing with a Tesla Cruiser, or any other T3, because they weren't made to be equal.

There's also the thing that i apparently play differently than you, and i hardly ever see an enemy base that has no way to get my units inside (most of the time people don't even build base defenses, or build them only on one side, but have an army of units instead). I don't need artillery at all in most of the games i play, and Abramses work well then (again, this doesn't mean they aren't weak).

BTW, Abramses take half damage from T3 defenses than what Rhinos do (same for all stuff with heavy armor).
 

can we add build limits to all Tier 3 units and defense buildings? so that Tier 1 and Tier 2 will not be neglected?

There's no way for us to make those limits really balanced, we can only approximate. For example, if Abramses would end up having a limit of 24, Nuwas might get 12, but it to be honest, those Abramses would still die to 12 Nuwas. And what build limit would a Mastermind have? 6? 12? 9? After all, even 3 of them can take over all of those Nuwas! Not to mention how abusable it would be if an ally would mind control over those 12 Nuwas, then you would build another 12, and the ally would then lose the Masterminds, giving you back your Nuwas (24 Nuwas! imagine that!).

In the end, it might end up in an even worse mess balance-wise, because build limits like this are best to be included since the design phase of the unit, and then unit balanced around the build limit, not the other way around (at least that's my opinion).

I would rather use Basswaves against Base Defenses since, y'know, they outrange them...

Except Basswaves are slow, and before they get to the spot, the enemy can intercept them. This is why Abrams anti-structure is so important here, because like for the Confed, USA doesn't even need to build their artillery units if they have a lot of T3 tanks (the difference here is that Confed can steamroll with Catas, and USA can't engage enemy forces unless they're outnumbered). Of course, it also depends a lot on the map.

Edited by mevitar, 24 January 2014 - 05:35 PM.

[Petya]

Abrams Tank is spammable anti-infantry and anti-armor unit. While it really sucks in 1v1s it is also easier to produce in high numbers.

[X1Destroy]

No, you don't get Abramses to fight enemy units, Tesla Cruisers are for that (and solely for that). If you want to use them as Tesla Cruisers, play Russia. Abramses are anti-everything, and because of that, they are weaker than other T3, dying in a 1vs1 vs a Tesla Cruiser. And while being weak is one thing, saying that Abramses are useless if they can destroy enemy structures while Teslas can't is another. Enough stuff was already said about Abramses being weak, no need to exaggerate on this one. Whatever buffs they receive (if they receive any, because that's not for me to decide), they will never be on equal footing with a Tesla Cruiser, or any other T3, because they weren't made to be equal.

That's actually fine by me. It doesn't need to be able to beat a Tesla Cruiser 1 on 1. It just need to be cheaper like $1300 and a little bit faster, 7 or 6.5 is enough for a spammable multi purpose tank. As its current state, it is not cost-efficient to produce them in massed. Bulldog + Warhawk is still a much better choice.
 

 

There's also the thing that i apparently play differently than you, and i hardly ever see an enemy base that has no way to get my units inside (most of the time people don't even build base defenses, or build them only on one side). I don't need artillery at all in most of the games i play, and Abramses work well then (again, this doesn't mean they aren't weak).

The thing is even if the enemy didn't build heavy base defenses, he would still have heavy units loitering around and they would decimate the Abrams when ever they are detected. USA don't even need to tech up to tier 3 if a player want to win in the first few minutes, and if it have to tech up then that's means the enemy have won the tech race and is using alots of nasty stuffs. Wolfhounds for example.

Edited by X1Destroy, 24 January 2014 - 05:57 PM.

[someonebutnoone]

A Deceiver Tank for the PsiCorps that can make up to three psionic clones of each unit. Those psionic clones have low health, and if ever destroyed, they can stun them for a few seconds.

[someonebutnoone]

Porpoise Mini-Submersible (Kinda the Dolphin for the EU)
 "We're all here in a mellow submarine."

-Porpoise operator

The Dolphins in the European Alliance have finally been retired because of fears that they might go extinct. This is their fast anti-naval scout now, a slightly slower but stronger Dolphin, but it's a sub.

Has two modes: scout mode (moves slightly faster, but slight damage decrease) and defense mode (moves slower, but higher damage)

(Voice is female, she's a British fangirl of the Beatles)

Edited by someonebutnoone, 25 January 2014 - 09:08 AM.

[I_Download_Stuff]

Porpoise Mini-Submersible (Kinda the Dolphin for the EU)

 

The Dolphins in the European Alliance have finally been retired because of fears that they might go extinct. This is their fast anti-naval scout now. (More to come)

 

Mini-submersibles will only go to shallow waters and emerges to attack, similar to Piranha 

[delulytric]

If the Act 2 missions aren't completed... then maybe the MO staffs could take a look some of my mission ideas... Even if the timeline or stuffs are wrong, you can try to improvise it. 

 

[Allies] Air-raid Siren

Background story: When Yuri has finally commenced his first combined Soviet-Epsilon weapon protocol against the Soviets at Leninsk Cosmodrome, the world was initially shocked that there was an unidentified third faction army. Soon, the world found themselves being surrounded by the third faction's weapon protocols - unidentified flying objects like the Invader begins to eradicate humans and floating Epsilon Adepts trying to mind control the very defensive forces sent to attack them. Air raid sirens began to call, back in the war-torn America too. 

 

What remnants of the Americans in the American soil have banded themselves in several outposts to defend against the Soviets, and now they'll have to deal with the Epsilon. These Americans have developed the prototypical Basswave system which uses a deadly sound frequency to knock out structures and infantries to counter against the Hammer system developed by the Soviets. Now, with the Epsilon invasion of America, the remnants of the United States army must work together and deliver the Basswave prototypes and the blueprints away to the United Kingdom. The Euro Alliance back in Europe has responded to the pleas of the Americans units and Siegfried has ordered the troops to rendezvous at a certain point where he will warp these troops by using his Chronosphere technology.  

 

Mission idea mixture of: Epsilon 10 - Focus Shift, Allied 11 - Panic Cycle, Epsilon Co-op 5 - Brain Reset

Mission Nature: Escape with limited base defenses

Mission Objectives:

1. Usher remaining troops alongside with the prototypical Basswaves to the rendezvous point.

2. Restore the devastated Allied outpost to full power at the rendezvous point.

3. Guard the Allied outpost until the Chronosphere can be activated back in Great Britain.

NOTE: At least one Basswave must survive the whole ordeal.

 

Mission players:

You (United States of America)

Allied AI - Controls most remnants

Soviet AI - Attacks everyone on sight, but specifically on your Basswaves

Epsilon AI - Attacks everyone on sight

 

Mission Outlay:

Your initial units are all elites (star-ranked), with 3 GIs, 3 Guardian GIs, 2 Medics, 2 Humvees, 5 Engineers and 1 Stryker IFV. You begin with full map vision in a small outpost with several AI controlled attack dogs and GIs combating against parachuted Epsilon Initiates and Soviet Conscripts, and with 3000 Credits. The outpost contains several camps with some Patriot missiles, pillboxes, 1 power plant and 1 strategy centre. There are three player controlled prototypical basswaves (Health: 400, Speed 4, Armor: Heavy - it's prototypical yo) and deliver them to the rendezvous point on the other side of the map.

 

Along the way, you will see some Tesla Coils with Pyro and Rhino Tank patrols (3 Pyro, 2 Rhino) by the Soviets along the American city. (Imagine it as a urban battle with lots of cities and the Soviet has set up lots of Tesla Coils and patrols to force the Americans to surrender). However, there will be Epsilon ambushes "helping" you when they parachuted Lasher tanks and Initiates to combat against the Soviets. 

 

There will be continuous parachutes like what was shown in Epsilon 10 - Focus Shift where shitload of stuffs happen. When you reach at a certain outpost, there is an Allied runway, and you are granted with 2 Stormchild and 2 Warhawks to bolster your initial forces. However, the amount of Flak troopers and Archers will increase beyond that outposts. Slowly, one by one, the American outposts fall and it became apparent that the Americans will lose very quickly for sure. Only the last Allied outpost with some form of base defenses and buildings remain. 

 

Once your remaining troops arrive at the final outpost (You must have at least 1 basswave surviving!), there will be a 15 minutes counter to defend against any Soviets or Epsilon that chanced upon your base, otherwise they'll scrabble against themselves. Your final outpost is heavily breached and there left with few defenses and is badly damaged. There are 3 power plants with power turbines which are badly damaged, 1 Barracks, some pillboxes, some patriot missiles, and several troops at your disposal (some GI, some Guardian GI, 2 Bulldog light tanks and 1 Abrams Tank). There are also some capturable Tech Artillery and Guns at your disposal (your 4 engineers can capture it). The wave will get seriously brutal at the last 5 minutes, where the Epsilon introduces their Basilisk warship and the Soviets sending out their Kirov.

 

When the timer is up, the Chronosphere will be activated and mission accomplished. (And the rest of your troops gets slaughtered by the massive Soviet + Epsilon onslaught).

[Malekron]

I have a suggestion for Rahn in which if deployed Rahn's attack turns infantry in to flying mutant heads called Bubbles that suicide attack air units exclusively instead of anti-surface Brutes. Can alternate fire modes to Brutes or to Bubbles.

[I_Download_Stuff]

I have also have a mission in mind for Act 2 if you folks in Mentalmeisters are listening and just like delulytric if there are any timeline grey spots just fix em

[Epsilon] Red Alert (The old mission name was Riot Control)
Location: Alcatraz Island, San Francisco City
Mission Background: With Yuri being of complete power, he proceeds with phase two of his plan. Activation of the Psychic Dominator around the world, starting in San Francisco. The message about Yuri's betrayal has reached the ears of the Soviets and Allied in San Francisco, but are completely unaware of the new device. It's only a matter of time before they become alert.

 

Mission Nature: Protect a specified structure with limited defenses
Mission Objectives:
1. Protect the Psychic Dominator from Soviet and Allied attacks.

Mission Players:
- You [Psicorps]

- Allied AI [U.S.A.] (They'll send naval fleets, fight through the soviet navy and send Barracudas on the Psychic Dominator)

- Soviet AI [Russia] (They'll attack the Barracudas and attack the allied fleet but will send still Dreadnoughts and Kirovs on the Psychic Dominator)

Mission Outlay:

You have a Nuclear Powerplant as your only power source and 8-10 Gatling Cannons placed around the Psychic Dominator (the Gatling Cannons reduce in number as mission difficulty increases) and 8000-10000 credits only used and an engineer used for repairs (the available credits reduces as mission difficulty increases. You have no engineer in mental difficulty). You begin with full vision of the map, as the Soviets did the favor of doing the recon before the Epsilon defected, and you'll be introduced to the Invader (4-6 Invaders depending on difficulty) and the Piranha (8-10 Piranhas depending on difficulty)

There's a 15 minute counter so you can succeed the mission, on the first 2 minutes the Gatling Cannons will do all the protection as waves of Barracudas fly to destroy the Psychic Dominator, some will be shot down by the Seawolves on the water. After the first 2 minutes, the Invader reinforcements will arrive and that's where more Barracudas start to appear while some still end up being shot down by Seawolves there will still be a handful of Barracudas to deal a significant damage to the superweapon. This will happen in an interval of 1 minute until you reach the 6 minute mark (9 minutes remain), once you hit the 6 minute mark, that's when the allied navy will appear and try to blast through the soviet navy and send their aircraft carriers and as the allied navy fights through the soviet navy, you'll be introduced to the Piranha to eliminate pesky Hornets or Ospreys that try to kill your minisubs. The allied fleet will fight through, but inevitably few survivors will reach the dominator as the soviet decimates them, until you reach the 10 minute mark on where the Soviets will act against you more than going against the allied navy. During the last 5 minutes of your defense, you'll be raided with Dreadnoughts, Kirovs, Battleships and Aircraft Carriers but you'll be reinforced with more Piranhas and Invaders (the amount is only half of the first reinforcement) and this is the most gruesome time, as they will also try to destroy your Nuclear Powerplant to disable your Psychic Dominator. When it's times up, you succeed the mission. Then a number of Barracudas will surely destroy your Psychic Dominator, thus leading to the YR storyline.

*PS; Can somebody tell on how to do a spoiler tag

Edited by I_Download_Stuff, 26 January 2014 - 12:51 PM.

[Tyhednus]

I have yet another suggestion. This time one about the Confederation.

The Buratino is not the best siege unit against structures. It is good against infantry.

Then there is the Vulture. I rarely use it. The guns are not that strong. The smoke cannon is useful, but no damage.

I suggest transforming the Vulture back into the Siege Chopper. It will be the ultimate harassing unit for Confederation. Confederation is all about harassment and sabotage. However, there are not many Confed. units in that category. So the Siege Chopper would be a perfect addtion to their arsenal.

 

P.S. You might say it would ruin the balance, but would you say the Buratino is balanced? Not really.

Edited by Tyhednus, 26 January 2014 - 01:40 PM.

[X1Destroy]

IMO Vulture is best at gunning down other aircrafts like Invader and Rocketeer. It's machineguns aren't good at killing mass packs of infantries, especially ones that can shoot back at the Vulture like GG.I.

Buratino in a group of 4 can burn buildings well.

Though, without a doubt that it is inferior compared to things like Prism tank and SCUD.

 

Edited by X1Destroy, 26 January 2014 - 01:44 PM.

[Tyhednus]

IMO Vulture is best at gunning down other aircrafts like Invader and Rocketeer. It's machineguns aren't good at killing mass packs of infantries, especially ones that can shoot back at the Vulture like GG.I.

Buratino in a group of 4 can burn buildings well.

Though, without a doubt that it is inferior compared to things like Prism tank and SCUD.

 

Yeah but then there is the accuracy of the rockets. In a heated battle there is not much time to place them well. I will try to use those Vultures against aircraft.

Edited by Tyhednus, 26 January 2014 - 01:46 PM.

[Atomic_Noodles]

Discussed earlier in the IRC... Since Soviets don't have information warfare (Epsilon has Chimera's, Allies have Gap Generator) We suggested the Soviets have access to a Building that spawns Fake Units. The LC being the one which has access to 3 versions. T1, T2 & T3.

 

The Fake Units all die in 1 hit.

 

Basically something like this:

 

T1 Spawner:

Russia : 5 Conscripts 3 Flak Troopers 5 MBTs

 

T2 Spawner (LC Only)

5 Ivans, 3 Bomb Buggies 5 Borillos

 

T3 Spawner (LC Only)

5 Buratinos, 5 Catastrophe

[someonebutnoone]

Discussed earlier in the IRC... Since Soviets don't have information warfare (Epsilon has Chimera's, Allies have Gap Generator) We suggested the Soviets have access to a Building that spawns Fake Units. The LC being the one which has access to 3 versions. T1, T2 & T3.

 

The Fake Units all die in 1 hit.

 

Basically something like this:

 

T1 Spawner:

Russia : 5 Conscripts 3 Flak Troopers 5 MBTs

 

T2 Spawner (LC Only)

5 Ivans, 3 Bomb Buggies 5 Borillos

 

T3 Spawner (LC Only)

5 Buratinos, 5 Catastrophe

 

Could be unique to Latin Confederation IMO

[Protozoan]

Discussed earlier in the IRC... Since Soviets don't have information warfare (Epsilon has Chimera's, Allies have Gap Generator) We suggested the Soviets have access to a Building that spawns Fake Units. The LC being the one which has access to 3 versions. T1, T2 & T3.

 

The Fake Units all die in 1 hit.

 

Basically something like this:

 

T1 Spawner:

Russia : 5 Conscripts 3 Flak Troopers 5 MBTs

 

T2 Spawner (LC Only)

5 Ivans, 3 Bomb Buggies 5 Borillos

 

T3 Spawner (LC Only)

5 Buratinos, 5 Catastrophe

 

I think it should be limited to just basic infantry, tanks and possibly the bomb buggy imo, Catastrophes & Buratinos are a bit much.

 

This would greatly increase their capacity for harassment.

Edited by Protozoan, 27 January 2014 - 09:35 AM.

[I_Download_Stuff]

Okay in continuation of the Epsilon's Missions (only the 10th, 11th and 12th)

[Epsilon] Mission 10: Blizzard Storm
Location: Antarctica

Mission Background: The Soviets and Allied found the secret Antarctic base of the Epsilon and the Epsilon Headquarters have been alerted of their presence, as the Proselyte, Yuri has appointed you to lead the defense of the Antarctic and working alongside with you, the Headquarter's new creation, Rahn. Defend the Antarctic at all costs, failure is not an option. You must not let Epsilon technology fall under the Soviets nor the Allies.

Mission Nature: Protect a specified structure
Mission Objectives:

1. Defend the MCV and Pandora's Hub until the Irkalla is built
2. Destroy all remaining enemy forces.
3. Rahn and the Irkalla must survive

 

Mission Players:
You [Epsilon Headquarters] - Main Defenders

Epsilon AI [Epsilon Headquarters] - Base Owners
Soviet AI [Russia] - Will attack from the air and sea and use superweapons

Allied AI [U.S.A.] - Will attack from the air and ground and use superweapons

Mission Outlay:

The mission begins with the Epsilon outposts, way out of the main base, becomes attacked by the Soviet and Allied Forces then sets up a base. As a response, you become the operator of most of the main bases defenses, 2 Barracks, 4 Warfactories, 2 Ore Refineries and 1 Naval Shipyard plus Bio Reactors and the main defenses throughout the base, you will be introduced to Rahn as a group of Allied infantry try to get by him you'll see that his attacks turns infantries into brutes. There will be a 45 minute timer so that the Irkalla will be built, during that time, you have no control of the main forward base and it's completely inadvisable to attack the enemy bases as you only have a radar spire and no Pandora's Hub.

The first 5-6 minutes of the game will become a grace time for you to set-up your defenses, you will lose shroud of the outer Epsilon outposts but still maintain vision of half of the map, there are huge ore fields inside and outside the base, after the 5-6 minute grace time, the Soviets will attack with Submarines, Dreadnoughts and make a military landing near your base while the Allied will attack using Bulldogs, Stormchilds, Warhawks, Abrams and Basswaves to make ease against your defenses. The first 10 minutes of the game will be tough and most of the outer defenses might end up being destroyed or badly damaged. Another 5-6 minute grace period is given to the player to reinforce the base once more after that, the Soviets and Allied forces will attack with the same units only more in numbers and this is time where Airborne and Bloodhounds drop to the MCV and Tank Drops near the Pandora's Hub after 10 minutes of the second wave of units. The Soviets and Allied will make their superweapons, the Epsilon will now grant you control of the Psyhic Dominator and Genetic Mutator and when the timer's up, just the exact time where all offensive superweapons are cooled down, the Irkalla will appear in the base and you will be granted immediate control of most of the base, some parts of the base will help you defend the area for you, the Nuke Silo and Weather Storm will be targeted to your short-lived granted MCV but still you have the 1st Objective complete, just create a new MCV, now that you have control of superweapons and the base now grants you better units, the Soviets and Allied will go full force on your base in a last ditch effort to destroy you, there's a chance that your base will be left half destroyed or not, depending on your defense skill. Then you are given orders to finish the rest of the enemy forces.
 

*I will add the 11th and 12th Missions later, still can somebody tell me how to make spoiler tags, PLEASE

Edited by I_Download_Stuff, 30 January 2014 - 07:38 AM.