74 replies to this topic

[evilbobthebob]

The problem isn't the basic idea or the story scripting itself necessarily. It's just the sheer volume of scripting that's required. Every single ship and upgraded variant would need the new switch included, and every single upgrade for every single ship. Furthermore, it is unknown if the methods used to unlock new ships and upgrades with research will cause problems with the submenu scripting.

[a.fake.name]

As I said, it'd all need to be tested, or someone with the knowledge could confirm it would work.

As for the volume, like I said... templates.

 

Get a standard template made up, and that's most of the work right there.

Although I will admit, in the case of bombers, yes it WILL make more work in that you'd need (for each upgrade model) at minimum a separate file for each loadout it gets, the fact is most of those will be cut and paste, with minimal changes to the values in the text file (IE: swap a torpedo for a bomb). But even then, just standardize the process and it will become easier.

[a.fake.name]

Here's how I see the dependency tree working as for just reducing clutter.

Your standard UI gets (locked to being always the top leftmost on the menu) a new button, lets call it 'yard selector' for now.

So you click the yard selector and 'research' it.

This unlocks an upgrade that changes dependencies that render all current ships unbuildable (allready begun construction would continue on, I think, since if a ship is building when it's upgrade finishes the older one is still what you get).

You then have your TOP build menu.
Under that would be at least seven options. The five yards, plus research. (preferbly the trade station for civilian ships/freighters/transports too) and a 'return to standard' menu.
If you click the yard 1 button, it 'researches' and unlocks your snubcraft.
If you click the yard 2 button, you can build tiny capitals and larger snubcraft.
Well you get the idea.

The idea is to have the craft be dependent on a specefic research being present, and use the UI as a way to turn stuff off and on, and have craft only show up if you're in the standard menu or in a specefic sub-menu.

[johnchm.10]

your ideas are all well and good, fake, but the big problem here is simply that it would take a ridiculous amount of work to change the current system.

honestly, if you want a comprehensive change, you're just going to have to do it yourself. not for nothing, but assuming that my last idea of having half the ships being assigned to the other row, or all the upgrades being assigned to the other row is feasible, i have to assume that it is likely to be easier to implement than something as comprehensive as yours.

don't get me wrong, your ideas seem to be good ones, the way i am imagining them, but they just seem to be too impractical for this mod.

same goes for balta's submenu ideas.

 

remember, only so much can be done when it comes to modding for this game at this point in time. the more simplistic we can keep the changes, the better.

Edited by johnchm.10, 05 February 2014 - 04:11 AM.

[a.fake.name]

Oh, I agree.

The main effort would be, to a great extent, having to re-write so many files.
That said, if a batch script were set up with the proper values for everything then it could automatically compile all of the text based files needing a re-work.

[johnchm.10]

if you want to do that then by all means.

 

again, i find your ideas to be interesting, and given enough work, they'd probably work out very well. its just that it would take too much work for 1.3 i think. possibly even 1.4.

 

oh, and the next person to suggest a UI change here on this thread, if you could instead move it to a new thread, lol. i think 2/3 of this one is now UI issues

 

it also just occurred to me that we could try to throw on a petition or a kickstarter to get petro to release some of their EAW stuff like the engine and or source code.

[a.fake.name]

A kickstarter is the most likely to work, throw money at them and suddenly they'll give a fuck.

As for Imp ships... can we get transports working as ground craft ?

Cause I mean, it'd be a perfect common sense replacement for the LAAT considering they DID replace the LAAT.

It would also give the player a reason to research transports, because I myself never bother.

It could be easily countered with anti aircraft, but would provide a sensible way to move the troops around.

[megabalta]

I did some research on low orbit / aerial transports, and found these as sufficient LAAT replacements

 

official imperial replacement

http://sketchup.goog...59d&prevstart=0

 

MAAT would be another great replacement (some mods have a model)

 

other suitable models (uncanon) 

http://sketchup.goog...e07&prevstart=0

http://sketchup.goog...a71&prevstart=0

 

these last two need some textures, although I could do it if one is to be placed in the mod.

[a.fake.name]

Um why find a LAAT replacement model ?

The Imps have at the Assault Transport, the Stormtrooper Transport (DX-9), and the Sentinel class landing craft.

[johnchm.10]

its not needed, unless you want it for Land mode. but even then, figure that enough LAAT/i's were made to keep it in service for a long time after the Clone Wars, and the LAAT/i is better armed anyway

Edited by johnchm.10, 07 February 2014 - 04:15 AM.

[a.fake.name]

For land mode, why not just use the models of transports already in space mode, don't the two share models anyway ?

[johnchm.10]

probably, but that's not my point. the point is that it would be like going from a CH-47 Chinook to a MH-6 Little Bird. less capable, less heavily armed, (assuming the Little Bird is unarmed, then its only got whatever its passengers are carrying), able to carry fewer troops, but being smaller and more maneuverable. that and Chinooks have been in service for a longer time compared to the Little Bird.

 

which actually isnt that far off. the newer Imp Dropship is smaller, carries a smaller armament, probably a weaker hull, and is able to carry fewer troops, but is likely to be more maneuverable and perhaps better suited for combat in a more urban and built-up environment

Edited by johnchm.10, 07 February 2014 - 07:50 AM.

[a.fake.name]

Um, we allready have specd LAAT replacements ingame, there would be NO loss in specs.
The newer transports may not have the turrets of the LAAT, but they have firepower.

[megabalta]

Yep I was thinking of land battle, and not to replace LAAT, but as a successor after research. I think current LAAT in PR has way too many hitpoints, hence I use it all the time as a flying tank and not really as a transport.

First of all, LAAT's main purpose is armed rapid behind enemy lines troop deployment (I love this tactic, which is why I'm very grateful PR implemented this craft, although with the great disadvantage of not flying over obstacles). Secondly it's a gunship with it's mass driver rocket stuff.

Empire would replace LAAT because of constant R&D, thats what empire does. Imp.dropship transport is probably cheaper, more maneuverable (meaning they could dodge aa rockets, probably with some anti aa system). So even with slightly less self defense armament (it's not really a wartime craft) it's a better choice for the empire for said purposes. (imagine LAAT like MI24, as IDT is like an armed Huey). 

Stormtrooper transports are spacecraft, without wings their maneuverability is probably really bad compared to their size. They are just not suited for behind enemy lines armed deploy actions, and for firepower you have bomber strafing runs and orbital bombardments.

[a.fake.name]

BIG difference between armed Huey and MI24.
Huey's like a light APC (say, M113), MI24 would be more comparable to an IFV like the Bradley or the BMP.

As for the Deltaclass DX-9 Stormtrooper transport, yes they ARE spacecraft (the same as the LAAT).
They use repulsors to hover, and I would imagine that they're a much cheaper peacetime version of the LAAT.

Also, due to the way they mostly just hover on land maps, I doubt maneuverability will be too big an issue.

My way of looking at it, the LAAT likely requires too many crew (all those gunners), to be cost effective on a large scale for the Empire, so they replace them over time with the newer peacetime craft that fill a more direct role for space combat and boarding using a much smaller crew, where the ATR would be more heavily armed and likely have a larger crew, for operations where something heavier than the LAAT is needed.

 

 

But yeah, either way I think we need to get transports out of the clone wars .

[johnchm.10]

The TRN would be a better alternative. Her low sublight speed wouldn't be as much of a disadvantage. She's got enough room for a platoon of stormtroopers or soldiers with all their gear. Strong hull and shields make her pretty much invulnerable to small arms and probably everything up to light lasers could fire until their guns melt down and the ship wouldn't even lose shields. The firepower of the ship is a a bit much, but since it's all in the forward arc, it works out. We also already have the model, textured and outfitted. The only issues I can raise are that of building, upgrading, and spawning.

[a.fake.name]

What issues ?

The ship is allready in game, just set them up so they have (like some units) the ability to fight in space and ground.

Edited by a.fake.name, 08 February 2014 - 12:54 AM.

[johnchm.10]

No, that's my point. Because those 'issues' are the only ones for this case, if a replacement or supplement for the LAAT were used, the TRN would be, in my opinion an optimal choice. The ATR would be too powerful. The Sentinel and Lambda, while themselves landers, are too physically large, with their wings and all.

[a.fake.name]

Hmm, prehaps use the Sentinal and Lambda in the wings up position ?

Have them stick to repulsers, in essence.

As for the ATR being to strong, well... that could be a good argument for adding the rest of the snubcraft to ground maps too.

[johnchm.10]

The lambda only has its guns, and is implied to be more of an executive transport for officers. I'd rather take the Sentinel in that case. Sentinels are slightly less well armed than TRNs in terms of raw firepower, but given that 2 of her guns are heavy repeating blasters, they would be more effective against infantry than lasers. They can also carry nearly twice as many passengers in their standard configuration in addition to heavy gear like e-webs and bikes, or up to 75 troops.
A good comparison here would be ATAT and Juggernaut.