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Anatomy of a Starship


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#41 johnchm.10

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 08:39 AM

There's a thread in General that you might wish to look at

#42 evilbobthebob

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 08:40 AM

Unfortunately you are correct, it is not possible to code that kind of very specific link between starfighter research and complements. Since a few people have assured me that the tech level can be used to adjust spawning units (using an XML tag previously thought disabled), there will be opportunities there to use upgraded/entirely new starfighter models as garrison units.


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#43 skie9173

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 02:45 PM

Are there revised planetary bonuses to reflect some of these changes? Like Dac gives. Bonus shield points and a slight bonus to absorption? Or access to say Mandalorian Iron (just grabbing a random example) increases armor absorption slightly?

Also if i am reading this right, space battle population is dramatically higher? How does that relate to a vessels Galactic Pop count?
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#44 evilbobthebob

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 04:08 PM

We can't give specific increases to armour or shield resist values. Instead we use the "defense" stat, which is an internal thing that achieves a similar result via a percentage. I think there are some other planets that increase shield points by a certain percentage as well.

 

Yes, space battles are currently set at 400 population. Galactic population is based on crew counts, because plantary population is based roughly on the number of recruitable beings on a world. It acts somewhat like a maintenance stat. So a lot of the Rebel ships show their strength in much decreased crew requirement, especially compared to ships like the Acclamator.


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#45 a.fake.name

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 04:50 PM

So a lot of the Rebel ships show their strength in much decreased crew requirement, especially compared to ships like the Acclamator.

The main advantage of mon cal designs is the ions they bring to the table (well, MC40 and wingless MC80 anyway, MC80B Mon Remoda type too if it ends up added).

The ions make a massive difference in battles since it lets you get thru the regenerating shields and into the hull a lot faster.

That said, the Acclamator is quite useful once upgraded several times due to it's speed, it makes a great vanguard unit to soak enemy fire as a slower main fleet barrels into range.

Very useful for getting a VSD-I fleet into the midst of an AI fleet to bugger it without lube. (especially in the present version where the VSD salvos penetrate shields).


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#46 Aizen Teppa

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 05:46 PM

Unfortunately you are correct, it is not possible to code that kind of very specific link between starfighter research and complements. Since a few people have assured me that the tech level can be used to adjust spawning units (using an XML tag previously thought disabled), there will be opportunities there to use upgraded/entirely new starfighter models as garrison units.

Tough luck, but definitely it is possible to research upgrade(s) for starbases. Of course to build upgraded version player must first sell existing one(s) (and selling orbital facilities was possible even in vanilla). It won't be cheap option - progress never is - but doable.

 

PR team must find some way (except ridiculously buffing basic starbases) to address this. When really big guns start to swarm the galaxy size 5 base or Golan 3 are nothing more than annoying flies. Power to shields & permanent/'triggerable' [with v. fast recharge] missile jammer/interdiction would be nice addition for Golan3 (with tractor beam auto activated).



#47 a.fake.name

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 07:23 PM

I agree, they are way too easy to take out.

Is there some way to add a station research tech tree that auto-updates stations ?

Either way, they need main, secondary, and point defense batteries.

Main batteries: Give them double, quad, and octuple batteries of turbolasers and turboions (some heavies too of course), depending on if a golan I, II, or III

Secondary batteries: A mix of regular turbolasers, with some double or quad ones as well.

Point defense batteries: A few heavy quad lasers, with a decent number of light lasers, and point defense ability with a quicker recharge to allow for more mitigation of salvos.

Of course the key would be to scale up, the bigger the golan, the better the extra stuff.

Past that, better map placement of Golans, as is on many maps you can just end run around them and take them out last... assuming you don't just curbstomp them with tactics.
 


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#48 P.O._210877

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 01:17 AM

It would greatly suprise me to see any of the  the stations' issues addressed in this release but, iirc, the Golans are weaker in 1.2 than what we test with.


If it's hard then it's worth doing.

 


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#49 a.fake.name

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 03:07 AM

It would greatly suprise me to see any of the  the stations' issues addressed in this release but, iirc, the Golans are weaker in 1.2 than what we test with.

Well then, as long as they're not invincible in the test version why not just make that the public version ?


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#50 P.O._210877

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 04:33 AM

Because that would mean violating the non-disclosure promise I made to PR... :thumbsdownsmiley:

 

Look, I'm not writing comments at random, there's a fine line to be threaded here. I'm not taking this personal btw, it's just the reality we've got to live with as testers. :mellowthumbsup:


If it's hard then it's worth doing.

 


- Alcor, Alcor pardonne-moi mais je ne veux pas que tu meurs. Je ne veux
pas que la planète bleue soit mise à feu et à sang par ces monstres. Je
me battrai pour les empêcher de détruire ce qui est devenue ma Terre.
Goldorak m'aidera. Au besoin, j'irai jusqu'au camp de la Lune Noire
puisque c'est là que Véga et ses monstres ont établi leur base. Et je la
détruirai.

 

Actarus


#51 Aizen Teppa

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 06:47 AM

It would greatly suprise me to see any of the  the stations' issues addressed in this release but, iirc, the Golans are weaker in 1.2 than what we test with.

I'm fully aware it's not possible to address this fully with 1.3. It's just another rather big issue for 1.4.

 

As far as NDA goes, it's good to know that at least some improvements will be made in 1.3. That's good enough for me, don't want to hear that PR testing pain-sticks on testers. :evgr:



#52 johnchm.10

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 07:53 AM

If we're talking about modding the Golans, I think we should try to keep the mods simple

Path 1
No upgradable Golans
All I would want here would be some lighter weapons to deal with fighters, maybe as a point defense system. Chih's submod increased the range of turbo lasers, and I change my compliments anyway, although I feel like the stock compliments seem a bit light.
Other than those, leave the stations as they stand.

Path 2
Upgrades. If you wish to get upgrades for them, then I recommend that the number be kept to 1 to 3 upgrades per stations, to minimize the amount of work that would need to be done, and because these are basically stationary capital ships. Imo, upgrades would be for everything but the primary guns, and adding anti fighter guns. The final upgrade would be to make the single mount guns dual mounts.
But their overall strength when maxed out would be either the equivalent of, or just below the stock station above it.

Since we're on the subject, perhaps we could consider upgrades to the trade stations. Weapon upgrades could be focused on increasing the power of the guns as opposed to their number, like heavies, multiple mounts or both.

Anyway, back to Golans. I know that there was no canon mention of any weapons other than turbos, torpedoes, and tractor beams, but it seems like the Golans should have at least a few anti fighter guns. Even if only some light lasers or even some E-webs. (side note - bolt together 4 e-webs, kinda like the quad 50 cal M16 half-track back from ww2. Awesome idea, no?)

#53 Aizen Teppa

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 08:43 AM

Of course I don't expect we'll get 9 upgrades for starbases. 3 will do nicely. But defo I would go way past basic anti-fighter capabilities. By definition (in any sci-fi universe) single starbase was a serious obstacle to any fleet, and few starbases would cause serious problems for attacker and serious boost for defender.

 

Golans in particular. It's just daft to assume that military installation which cost Ms of credits was lacking any point-defense capabilities to deal with enemy fighters. (I admit it's one of the most puzzling things about SW universe for me - nobody build battleships without means to defend against planes - namely AA).

 

Where I would also improve is Space Colony. It needs some anti-starfighter love. Some point-defense or missile jamming and few laser cannons.

 

 

BTW: any hope -in the future versions- we will see Empress-class bases deployable in tactical mode (just like these 'vanilla' lame missile launchers/laser cannons)?

 



#54 P.O._210877

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 09:00 PM

I honestly don't know what are the long term plans for the station system so I really can't help you there.


If it's hard then it's worth doing.

 


- Alcor, Alcor pardonne-moi mais je ne veux pas que tu meurs. Je ne veux
pas que la planète bleue soit mise à feu et à sang par ces monstres. Je
me battrai pour les empêcher de détruire ce qui est devenue ma Terre.
Goldorak m'aidera. Au besoin, j'irai jusqu'au camp de la Lune Noire
puisque c'est là que Véga et ses monstres ont établi leur base. Et je la
détruirai.

 

Actarus


#55 megabalta

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 09:37 PM

You probably noticed the shield/armor absorbtion simulation on ships in the description. This new system is pretty good at showing why most bigger ships are designed without point defense in SWU. Simply put, they are nearly invulnerable to small arms fire, that is their defense. Without bombers, you'll need dozens of fighter squadrons to destroy a bigger target. Against bombers you can deploy fighters or dedicated AA escort ships, Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this applies to Golans too. 


Edited by megabalta, 28 June 2014 - 11:08 PM.


#56 P.O._210877

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 11:30 PM

You're pretty much on the spot!

 

In SW the strength of fighter size units equipped with missiles/torpedoes is really dependent on the concept of surgical bombing. Hitting a much larger ship "where it hurts" and not slowly draining it's defenses. If your units are incapable of achieving this, in this case because the HPs are indestructible and the whole structure must collapse before any system stops working, then it is no longer meant for it's former role.

 

This fact implies changes in how some units must be perceived and what type of missions to assign them to.

 

I'm sure this will become less cryptic in future news posts.


If it's hard then it's worth doing.

 


- Alcor, Alcor pardonne-moi mais je ne veux pas que tu meurs. Je ne veux
pas que la planète bleue soit mise à feu et à sang par ces monstres. Je
me battrai pour les empêcher de détruire ce qui est devenue ma Terre.
Goldorak m'aidera. Au besoin, j'irai jusqu'au camp de la Lune Noire
puisque c'est là que Véga et ses monstres ont établi leur base. Et je la
détruirai.

 

Actarus


#57 johnchm.10

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 05:04 AM

I am getting the sinking feeling that subsystems are coming back

#58 P.O._210877

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 06:31 AM

You mean hardpoints? No idea, it's not something that was seriously discussed on the testing forum.


If it's hard then it's worth doing.

 


- Alcor, Alcor pardonne-moi mais je ne veux pas que tu meurs. Je ne veux
pas que la planète bleue soit mise à feu et à sang par ces monstres. Je
me battrai pour les empêcher de détruire ce qui est devenue ma Terre.
Goldorak m'aidera. Au besoin, j'irai jusqu'au camp de la Lune Noire
puisque c'est là que Véga et ses monstres ont établi leur base. Et je la
détruirai.

 

Actarus


#59 johnchm.10

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 08:00 AM

If it wasnt discussed there, then I can infer that it is unlikely to return soon. And if adding light weapons is out, than we do the simplest solution. Compliment changes. Easiest way would be having most of the fighters be interceptors armed with missiles, A-wing mk2s, or in the case of the empire, a larger number of ties and or better ties, figure mark 4 interceptors. As of 1.2, their weapons suite of 4 light lasers and 2 additional blasters gives them a slightly greater amount of firepower than the c-model x-wing, which aside from mk2 or later e-wings, mid to late model b and k wings, is about as powerful as its gonna get. Slightly different method: add transports to their compliments. I'm thinking Sentinel 3s and yt1300b or c models. The transports could go on ahead and fire off the initial salvo of missiles and engage with their medium lasers from a greater range than opposing fighters. After the first strike, you could pull back the transports to let them reload or keep them safe should the fighters run into new opposition, or let them go into the furball. Im using those transports because Barlozes need to be upgraded to very late models to give them missiles (as of v1.2), lambdas only have 1 weapon that isnt locked forward, iirc, and even early model skiprays and yt2000 are too powerful for the job, and the atr is designed to go after capital ships so her weapons aren't great against fighters and bombers. I don't really want to add anything larger than transports unless a case could be made for it, not counting the ipv

#60 Sûlherokhh

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 11:04 PM

Like a.fake.name said, glad to see some of my suggestions finding a way into PR.

 

Especially the following made me happy:

 

...

 

Acceleration

 

With the change to the new space combat mechanics, we have moved towards a more "realistic" approach. While ships still have a capped top speed, it is directly proportional to their acceleration. This is measured in terms of G-force, the acceleration experienced by a being on the surface of a planet with standard gravity, roughly 10 m/s2.

 

...

 

 

:thumbsupxd:


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