Javascript Disabled Detected

You currently have javascript disabled. Several functions may not work. Please re-enable javascript to access full functionality.

Non cheating AI...

Started by Lion, Aug 29 2004 01:24 PM

Prev

Next

Please log in to reply

48 replies to this topic

#21 Akkrand

New Members
61 posts

Location:Melbourne, Australia

Posted 02 September 2004 - 01:56 AM

How do you get them to go for each derrick? I'm eager to know...

And if your AF AI can still do that when/if it gets to the point where it gets exactly zero cheat money, then I take off my hat to you, but still don't see any reason why you would 'dumb it down' because of that. If it rocks, it rocks.

EDIT: Inspired by your non-cheating general, I have begun a series of very large changes to Vanilla USA, in the hope of making it a much tougher AI.
I figure why try to tweak Airforce/Demo/Nuke if you are already working on (and making great strides on) these generals? So instead I have started on Vanilla USA, I might work on Vanilla GLA next, or possibly Tank Gen. But right now all my energy is going into USA, as I think they present the best 'balanced' force available, letting my indulge in a little bit of airforce, and a serious ground attack to back it up. My only problem I can find with the USA factions is the Particle Cannon, is there any way to make it stop that stupid 'S' attack, and move directly from one target to the next???
I would work with SupW gen, but she seems a bit too reliant of Aurora Alphas, which I find a little bit cheesey, as they are quite overpowered, and I spent all that time working out my Advanced Dynamic Attack Paths, it would seem a waste to only use them on MD Humvees...

Cheers,
Lord Akkrand

Edited by Akkrand, 02 September 2004 - 02:25 AM.

Back to top

#22 Lion

New Members
50 posts

Posted 02 September 2004 - 02:42 AM

Well you need more than one oil derrick team(2 max number). that will get you a little result, by luck most of times...
Then two separate teams, one moving to the nearest derrick on the combatzone and the other in skirmish world, will assure it will get the ones close to base as well as ones in middle of map at same time, which is a little better, working excellently on many maps but so-so on others....
Then you can try brainstorming like i am a better way, which would be 100% accurate and could work for as many derricks as possible but ill keep it under wraps until i find out if the conditions/actions even exist to do such a hack, as well as some testing!...
Ill be working on it a bit later, but ill let you know if it works!

The S shaped pattern seems to be hardcoded, so i have no idea how to fix it... it at least KILLS SOMETHING... now go and look at the spectre AI? it plain sucks and doesnt even use its howitzers! I think that one might be possibly fixed however so fear not!

As for the AI im sure i can make an absolute kickass AI with very little cheating (its a reality already), but NO CHEATING WHATSOEVER is seeming extremely hard, at least to provide it with a decent challenge, my original intent for the AI, and im liking the current results so im just going to tone cheats down as far as possible without compromising the challenge/fun factor

Back to top

#23 Akkrand

New Members
61 posts

Location:Melbourne, Australia

Posted 02 September 2004 - 03:12 AM

What is 'skirmish world'? Sounds useful.
Is that an area like 'CombatZone' or '[Skirmish]MyOuterPerimeter'?

Cheers,
Lord Akkrand

Back to top

#24 [MoD]Cha0s C0ntr0L

title available

Project Team
1,340 posts

Not here

Posted 02 September 2004 - 08:40 AM

i kno how to do AI for Half-Life, not c&c

Back to top

#25 Mithril

496

Hosted
1,386 posts

Location:UK
Projects:Heh! You're not going to ask me that question.

Posted 02 September 2004 - 08:41 AM

SkirmishWorld is an area on a map (not on many maps though) that encompasses the entire playable area.

About the S particle beam attacK: I'm pretty sure this is hardcoded into the AI engine together with the spectre..hmm.. now is this biased or what?! I mean, EA was keen on getting the USA AI to work properly - they explicitly coded the AI engine to work with the particle cannon and spectre.. WHY didn't they look at the frenzy or GPS scrambler then? Argh, so biased..

Hmm I'll better find time to write the tutorial about advanced dynamic attack paths..

Command & Conquer: Red Alert - ReGeneration

"Not the faintest clue =\"

-ComradeJ

Back to top

#26 Guest_Guest_*

Guests

Posted 02 September 2004 - 09:41 AM

In the code for the Particle Cannon you could try to change the SwathOfDeathAmplitude to 0, it'll make it go straight but I think it'll be even more ineffective than now.

Back to top

#27 Allied General

C&C Guild

Hosted
6,922 posts

Location:United Kingdom
Projects:AGSA
Modder

Posted 02 September 2004 - 09:51 AM

cheating is wierd cos it some ways it needs to ...

a human player builds multiple war factories, an a.i. will hardly ever use secondary functions or build far away.

the a.i. should be dirty, aggressive and painful, its muc better then a A.I. which has the intelligence of a goldfish :grin:

Back to top

#28 Lion

New Members
50 posts

Posted 02 September 2004 - 03:33 PM

Indeed but cars should fly, be 100% safe and take no fuel as well... Good AI is easier said than done...
We are trying hard though :grin:

I see 9 downloads (some of which mine for testing) but no replies about it :( ah well lol

Edited by Lion, 02 September 2004 - 03:33 PM.

Back to top

#29 Mithril

496

Hosted
1,386 posts

Location:UK
Projects:Heh! You're not going to ask me that question.

Posted 02 September 2004 - 03:48 PM

In the code for the Particle Cannon you could try to change the SwathOfDeathAmplitude to 0, it'll make it go straight but I think it'll be even more ineffective than now.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What does SwathOfDeathAmplitude do? I don't think Lion wants to edit the game itself..

Command & Conquer: Red Alert - ReGeneration

"Not the faintest clue =\"

-ComradeJ

Back to top

#30 Mastermind

Server Technician

Undead
7,014 posts

Location:Cambridge, MA
Projects:MasterNews 3
The Man Behind the Curtain

Posted 02 September 2004 - 03:59 PM

I believe that is what defines the amplitude of the path that the particle cannon follows. It uses some type of generated trig wave, and the amplitude is the multiplier.
:grin:

Well, when it comes to writing an expository essay about counter-insurgent tactics, I'm of the old school. First you tell them how you're going to kill them. Then you kill them. Then you tell them how you just killed them.

Too cute! | Server Status: If you can read this, it's up |

Back to top

#31 Lion

New Members
50 posts

Posted 02 September 2004 - 07:04 PM

hmm it doesnt really matter, no good player in his right mind spends 5k on a PCU let alone when you cant aim it right..
if only we could pick WHERE to send that s shape

Back to top

#32 Akkrand

New Members
61 posts

Location:Melbourne, Australia

Posted 02 September 2004 - 11:49 PM

A wave like all those things I (dimly) recall doing in Maths Methods in year 11 & 12? I wonder if it would be better not as a straight line, but with a higher amplitude, so it concentrates more on the middle of where it fires... I've seen a PC fire at a group of base defenses that were slightly spaced apart, and miss every single one of them! Or 3 times in a row I saw the computer PC fire at an Internet Center and not kill it, as the first few and last few seconds weren't on the building. Even if it didn't move at all, just hit the center of the target, would be better than now.

Where is this variable?

Cheers,
Lord Akkrand

Back to top

#33 Lion

New Members
50 posts

Posted 03 September 2004 - 03:18 AM

Thats why I rather have my AI spend that 5k in auroras and kill their CC or tech center...
However it will build a SW if it has loads of money to spare...

Back to top

#34 Mithril

496

Hosted
1,386 posts

Location:UK
Projects:Heh! You're not going to ask me that question.

Posted 03 September 2004 - 08:20 AM

Hmm I wonder what would happen to the PCU if you tell the AI to use commandbutton ability on nearest <whatever> instead of telling the player to fire the special power..

I'd wager that it would simply FIRE it and not move it, BUT that is what players have to do sometimes isn't it?

Command & Conquer: Red Alert - ReGeneration

"Not the faintest clue =\"

-ComradeJ

Back to top

#35 Mastermind

Server Technician

Undead
7,014 posts

Location:Cambridge, MA
Projects:MasterNews 3
The Man Behind the Curtain

Posted 03 September 2004 - 04:19 PM

Yeah. If I need to kill something that takes two PCU's I will launch the first one, not move it, and then fire the second to kill it.
:grin:

Well, when it comes to writing an expository essay about counter-insurgent tactics, I'm of the old school. First you tell them how you're going to kill them. Then you kill them. Then you tell them how you just killed them.

Too cute! | Server Status: If you can read this, it's up |

Back to top

#36 Lion

New Members
50 posts

Posted 03 September 2004 - 04:34 PM

Ill just get 6 auroras (price of the power + 2 pcus) instead and blow his whole base up with them...
they are also guaranteed delivery, dont show up on the map revealing your base, doesnt have a little clock that lets enemies know when they will be attacked, can hit multiple targets for the same price, deliver payload to more targets in a shorter time and can be used as soon as they get built, as well as being upgradeable unit that requires no power and gets experience from pilots or by itself!
Unless we manage to come up with a SMART targetting algorithm I cant see the point in PCUs for AI other than display and something to do in late game when they have too much money to even spend it on units (which by that time the AI will have just about won already)

By me i mean also my AI...

Edited by Lion, 03 September 2004 - 04:35 PM.

Back to top

#37 thudo

Wacko AI Guy!

Division Leaders
12,166 posts

Location:Lemonville North, Canada
Projects:DoW AI Scripting Project
Division:DoW
Job:Division Leader

Posted 03 September 2004 - 09:41 PM

Uhmm.. PCUs don't reveal themselves on the map: the stupid Strategy Center does (another dumb implementation from EA). I find the AI actually does use the Particle Cannon Superweapons quite well overall. I mean, its the only weapon that you can customize its path of destruction - telling the AI how to use it in a custom path would be tricky if not impossible. I'm sure the elongated "S" shape it does is predetermined but I'm generally satisfied that that pattern is highly successful compared if it were just a straight line or circle.

I like AgMLauncher's v1.03 Community Patch update for the Alpha Auroras to make them less god-like but reducing splash damage. As it stands, they are wayyy overpowered and needed to be balanced like he did.

I hoping yer keeping your 5 PCUs for the SupW General. The AI does use them decently and many times I've been stung by those "bast*rd" rays o Death! heheh

Advanced Skirmish AI Team Lead for the coolest Warhammer40k PC RTS out there:

Dawn of War Advanced AI Headquarters

Latest DoW Advanced AI Download!

Back to top

#38 Lion

New Members
50 posts

Posted 03 September 2004 - 11:05 PM

Uhmm.. PCUs don't reveal themselves on the map: the stupid Strategy Center does (another dumb implementation from EA). I find the AI actually does use the Particle Cannon Superweapons quite well overall. I mean, its the only weapon that you can customize its path of destruction - telling the AI how to use it in a custom path would be tricky if not impossible. I'm sure the elongated "S" shape it does is predetermined but I'm generally satisfied that that pattern is highly successful compared if it were just a straight line or circle.

I like AgMLauncher's v1.03 Community Patch update for the Alpha Auroras to make them less god-like but reducing splash damage. As it stands, they are wayyy overpowered and needed to be balanced like he did.

I hoping yer keeping your 5 PCUs for the SupW General. The AI does use them decently and many times I've been stung by those "bast*rd" rays o Death! heheh
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was talking about normal auroras... for the SWG i should add more PCU's as i, so it should build more of them as it works out a lot cheaper and its 25% more powerful if i remember right!
The community patch has some nice stuff but overall its unplayable, the AFG has absolutely no chance against an infantry general and is much worse overall... however Alphas do need to be fixed!
Now if you compare a PCU with a nuke or scud storm (even with timers taken into consideration) it quickly becomes obvious why i dont like them...
All USA gens will build them but they wont have as much priority as the other SWs

I thought they did reveal, like any superweapon AS WELL as the strat center... ah well dont matter pcus still smell!

Back to top

#39 Mastermind

Server Technician

Undead
7,014 posts

Location:Cambridge, MA
Projects:MasterNews 3
The Man Behind the Curtain

Posted 04 September 2004 - 03:23 AM

I love the Superweapon Gen's particle cannons. They are awesome. I'm playing through the challenge mode again, and I more or less turtle and use particle cannons to win.
:sad:

Well, when it comes to writing an expository essay about counter-insurgent tactics, I'm of the old school. First you tell them how you're going to kill them. Then you kill them. Then you tell them how you just killed them.

Too cute! | Server Status: If you can read this, it's up |

Back to top

#40 Mithril

496

Hosted
1,386 posts

Location:UK
Projects:Heh! You're not going to ask me that question.

Posted 04 September 2004 - 08:31 AM

I thought they did reveal, like any superweapon AS WELL as the strat center... ah well dont matter pcus still smell!

I thought so too..I thought the FS_SUPERWEAPON made it reveal itself..

*checks*

It does! At least in my ZH it does.

I think one of our limitations is that we simply cannot get the AI to use particle cannons properly. We can probably get it to fire at an enemy structure by using the "team<SkirmishAmerica,probably> use commandbutton ability on nearest enemy object of type '???'" instead of telling the player to fire the special power.

However, this may only be effective in combination with another big weapon, e.g. a group of auroras.

Command & Conquer: Red Alert - ReGeneration

"Not the faintest clue =\"

-ComradeJ