5129 replies to this topic

[JackoDerp]

Stop trying to overhaul PsiCorps for gods sake.
They don't need to change really at all, maybe with the exception of a minor shift between positioning play with Magnetrons and DPS units from the current Meta of spamming Masterminds and just throwing them at stuff.

Also PsiCorps vs Haihead is not as one-sided as you may think, with the only truely broken tool being Magnetic Satellite.

FinAlize are insanely resistant to damage, even if you freeze them on a spot with Magnetrons. If they're in range of each other it takes *multiple* Libra and/or Virus shots to finally remove them.
Magnetrons are tricky to deal with but getting Shadrays/Diverbees/Alize into range or Confusing them can get them picked off quite easily
Masterminds are annoying for sure but Alize does stupid-high damage to them and Railguneers are also expert at mopping them up.
You can't mob them with infantry because Fin Deletes them just by being near them
And finally Shadrays do more than enough damage to level chunks of PsiCorps light armour very quickly, which is pretty much everything that isn't a Mastermind.

And besides, MO is full of really shitty faction matchups including (but not limited to):

Latin vs Scorpion Cell
Euro vs Coronia
China vs USA

is PsiCorps vs Haihead really as bad as those?

[Drezalnor]

Stop trying to overhaul PsiCorps for gods sake.They don't need to change really at all, maybe with the exception of a minor shift between positioning play with Magnetrons and DPS units from the current Meta of spamming Masterminds and just throwing them at stuff.Also PsiCorps vs Haihead is not as one-sided as you may think, with the only truely broken tool being Magnetic Satellite.FinAlize are insanely resistant to damage, even if you freeze them on a spot with Magnetrons. If they're in range of each other it takes *multiple* Libra and/or Virus shots to finally remove them.Magnetrons are tricky to deal with but getting Shadrays/Diverbees/Alize into range or Confusing them can get them picked off quite easilyMasterminds are annoying for sure but Alize does stupid-high damage to them and Railguneers are also expert at mopping them up.You can't mob them with infantry because Fin Deletes them just by being near themAnd finally Shadrays do more than enough damage to level chunks of PsiCorps light armour very quickly, which is pretty much everything that isn't a Mastermind.And besides, MO is full of really shitty faction matchups including (but not limited to):Latin vs Scorpion CellEuro vs CoroniaChina vs USAis PsiCorps vs Haihead really as bad as those?

Not bad,Jacko.But Railgunners would have some trouble taking on Masterminds.Besides,Shadrays are a terrible choice against Magnetrons.

Infantry rushes are equally worthless against WoC and LB when they get T3 infantry.Zorbs literally eat infantry for breakfast,lunch and dinner and Giantsbanes,well.....

Uhh..you forgot to mention that Megalodons eat Masterminds as appetizers.

As for the matchups,well,LC v SC is basically two hit'n run factions facing off in an ambushing contest.Both of them have practically the same combat doctrine(with different tech to execute it).

As for EA v WoC,well,the Archon is the only reliable AA that EA has(the Thor can be a tad unreliable).

[Divine]

 

 

Would you agree to have PsiCorps completely reworked

No I won't. Imo, PsiCorps' unique gameplay style is not something that should be thrown down the trash bin. The current one tech they have does just fine, there's really no need to take them all down.

Also, nah. Your idea defies the doctrine of most PsiCorps tanks that relies on not getting hit in the first place. That sounded more like a tank for a powerhouse faction. Not even HQ has tanks that relies on getting close. Besides, your idea is really impossible to work with because you will need the tank to fire next to the tank instead of towards the tank. Plus Libra's flipping mechanic is very prone to friendly-fire

 

Magnetron is fine, it's just that the limitation that causes it to pseudo-EMP infantries that I have a problem with.

 

I think you misunderstood me, I did not mean a melee range unit, just not artillery-tier like the Magnetron. Something like 8-10 range. The inaccuracy that is necessary for flipping to work properly could be done with a flak scatter or cluster warhead mechanics. Basically the TK tank would focus its power on a target, creating the gravity anomaly at the target's location, or rather, next to it.

[JackoDerp]

Stop trying to overhaul PsiCorps for gods sake.They don't need to change really at all, maybe with the exception of a minor shift between positioning play with Magnetrons and DPS units from the current Meta of spamming Masterminds and just throwing them at stuff.Also PsiCorps vs Haihead is not as one-sided as you may think, with the only truely broken tool being Magnetic Satellite.FinAlize are insanely resistant to damage, even if you freeze them on a spot with Magnetrons. If they're in range of each other it takes *multiple* Libra and/or Virus shots to finally remove them.Magnetrons are tricky to deal with but getting Shadrays/Diverbees/Alize into range or Confusing them can get them picked off quite easilyMasterminds are annoying for sure but Alize does stupid-high damage to them and Railguneers are also expert at mopping them up.You can't mob them with infantry because Fin Deletes them just by being near themAnd finally Shadrays do more than enough damage to level chunks of PsiCorps light armour very quickly, which is pretty much everything that isn't a Mastermind.And besides, MO is full of really shitty faction matchups including (but not limited to):Latin vs Scorpion CellEuro vs CoroniaChina vs USAis PsiCorps vs Haihead really as bad as those?

Not bad,Jacko.But Railgunners would have some trouble taking on Masterminds.Besides,Shadrays are a terrible choice against Magnetrons.

Infantry rushes are equally worthless against WoC and LB when they get T3 infantry.Zorbs literally eat infantry for breakfast,lunch and dinner and Giantsbanes,well.....

Uhh..you forgot to mention that Megalodons eat Masterminds as appetizers.

As for the matchups,well,LC v SC is basically two hit'n run factions facing off in an ambushing contest.Both of them have practically the same combat doctrine(with different tech to execute it).

As for EA v WoC,well,the Archon is the only reliable AA that EA has(the Thor can be a tad unreliable).

Toplel
1. Railguneers have Range, do strong damage to vehicles and have poor damage against themselves and other infantry, these traits are what make them excellent counters to mind control, in the same way that Pyros and Borillos are an excellent counter to Adepts/Alites.
2. Shadrays and Magnetrons mostly ignore each other, sure the Shadrays get stuck but they still have good range and crazy damage.
3. Infantry Rushes are super important when dealing with Last Bastion, as Mastodons tend to eat your vehicles very quickly indeed, also Giantsbanes vs infantry? what? Only *real* threat is mass Kingsframe/Gharials, or Duplicants.
4. Megalodons *could* eat Masterminds, but remember those are the units that are hurt the most by Magnetrons.
5. Latin super counter Scorpion Cell just because they match them at the time that SC is supposed to be winning the game and/or establishing dominance, not to mention that unstoppable desolators (and by that I mean DesoCata) will hardcounter the entire Cell lategame army (outside of JUST Malver) just by being there. (And I'm not even going to begin on the broken tool that is Foxtrots)
6. lol. EA stomps WoC. Everything good about Coronia gets countered by one uncrushable dude with a Rocket Launcher, not to mention that Thors are one of the strongest AA in the game that not only counter every Air unit that Coronia has, but every infantry unit too.
Not to also mention that Siegfried is literally unkillable and can clean up all of your defenses by himself. Almost every lategame Euro unit is pretty much untouchable to them.

Edited by JackoDerp, 06 November 2018 - 12:55 PM.

[GuardianGI]

 

Stop trying to overhaul PsiCorps for gods sake.They don't need to change really at all, maybe with the exception of a minor shift between positioning play with Magnetrons and DPS units from the current Meta of spamming Masterminds and just throwing them at stuff.Also PsiCorps vs Haihead is not as one-sided as you may think, with the only truely broken tool being Magnetic Satellite.FinAlize are insanely resistant to damage, even if you freeze them on a spot with Magnetrons. If they're in range of each other it takes *multiple* Libra and/or Virus shots to finally remove them.Magnetrons are tricky to deal with but getting Shadrays/Diverbees/Alize into range or Confusing them can get them picked off quite easilyMasterminds are annoying for sure but Alize does stupid-high damage to them and Railguneers are also expert at mopping them up.You can't mob them with infantry because Fin Deletes them just by being near themAnd finally Shadrays do more than enough damage to level chunks of PsiCorps light armour very quickly, which is pretty much everything that isn't a Mastermind.And besides, MO is full of really shitty faction matchups including (but not limited to):Latin vs Scorpion CellEuro vs CoroniaChina vs USAis PsiCorps vs Haihead really as bad as those?

Not bad,Jacko.But Railgunners would have some trouble taking on Masterminds.Besides,Shadrays are a terrible choice against Magnetrons.

Infantry rushes are equally worthless against WoC and LB when they get T3 infantry.Zorbs literally eat infantry for breakfast,lunch and dinner and Giantsbanes,well.....

Uhh..you forgot to mention that Megalodons eat Masterminds as appetizers.

As for the matchups,well,LC v SC is basically two hit'n run factions facing off in an ambushing contest.Both of them have practically the same combat doctrine(with different tech to execute it).

As for EA v WoC,well,the Archon is the only reliable AA that EA has(the Thor can be a tad unreliable).

 

Railguneers having trouble against masterminds? You must be out of your mind.
 

Sure, Megalodons eat Masterminds for breakfast, but Marauders + magnets eat said Megalodons for breakfast.

LC is a hell of a matchup against SC because Desos and Catastrophes just ruins everything almost instantly, and the adepts the SC player can muster will be burned to ashes by the Buratinos. Also, Foxtrots exist.

[Drezalnor]

Jacko,you forget that there is an annoying chance element in Duplicants.If the chain reaction doesn't work out,Duplicants are as good as dead.

I forgot for a second that EA now is the Allied version of PsiCorps.(nearly as broken).

[Drezalnor]

Stop trying to overhaul PsiCorps for gods sake.They don't need to change really at all, maybe with the exception of a minor shift between positioning play with Magnetrons and DPS units from the current Meta of spamming Masterminds and just throwing them at stuff.Also PsiCorps vs Haihead is not as one-sided as you may think, with the only truely broken tool being Magnetic Satellite.FinAlize are insanely resistant to damage, even if you freeze them on a spot with Magnetrons. If they're in range of each other it takes *multiple* Libra and/or Virus shots to finally remove them.Magnetrons are tricky to deal with but getting Shadrays/Diverbees/Alize into range or Confusing them can get them picked off quite easilyMasterminds are annoying for sure but Alize does stupid-high damage to them and Railguneers are also expert at mopping them up.You can't mob them with infantry because Fin Deletes them just by being near themAnd finally Shadrays do more than enough damage to level chunks of PsiCorps light armour very quickly, which is pretty much everything that isn't a Mastermind.And besides, MO is full of really shitty faction matchups including (but not limited to):Latin vs Scorpion CellEuro vs CoroniaChina vs USAis PsiCorps vs Haihead really as bad as those?

Not bad,Jacko.But Railgunners would have some trouble taking on Masterminds.Besides,Shadrays are a terrible choice against Magnetrons.

Infantry rushes are equally worthless against WoC and LB when they get T3 infantry.Zorbs literally eat infantry for breakfast,lunch and dinner and Giantsbanes,well.....

Uhh..you forgot to mention that Megalodons eat Masterminds as appetizers.

As for the matchups,well,LC v SC is basically two hit'n run factions facing off in an ambushing contest.Both of them have practically the same combat doctrine(with different tech to execute it).

As for EA v WoC,well,the Archon is the only reliable AA that EA has(the Thor can be a tad unreliable).

Railguneers having trouble against masterminds? You must be out of your mind.
 
Sure, Megalodons eat Masterminds for breakfast, but Marauders + magnets eat said Megalodons for breakfast.

LC is a hell of a matchup against SC because Desos and Catastrophes just ruins everything almost instantly, and the adepts the SC player can muster will be burned to ashes by the Buratinos. Also, Foxtrots exist.

If there were any friendly vehicles nearby,the MC-ed Railgunners would cause trouble for me.I had misphrased it.

Make that LC v PC and you get to see the opposite.

[GuardianGI]

LC vs PC? Mass Desos for anti-ground + Foxtrots to take out Libra + Viruses and you are good to go.

And with respect, your first point is moot. (I can explain it but it's just gonna end with "elitism biasedness" discussions and what not, and I really don't want to bother with that)

Edited by GuardianGI, 06 November 2018 - 02:29 PM.

[Handepsilon]

Mastermind would die before it even reaches Railguneers

Also again, situations in pvp differs. You'd only be able to rarely dish out all your arsenals unless the game takes noticeably long, or you start with a flippin 50k.

[NorthFireZ]

If only MO was a card game, then all this theory crafting will actually turn out to be true somewhat. 

 

The only real way to settle anything around here is to put it into practice I suppose. 

 

So how about it Drezalnor? You prepared to put your money where your mouth is? 

[LunaMoon]

 

 

Infantry rushes are equally worthless against WoC and LB when they get T3 infantry.Zorbs literally eat infantry for breakfast,lunch and dinner and Giantsbanes,well.....

Uhh..you forgot to mention that Megalodons eat Masterminds as appetizers.

As for the matchups,well,LC v SC is basically two hit'n run factions facing off in an ambushing contest.Both of them have practically the same combat doctrine(with different tech to execute it).

As for EA v WoC,well,the Archon is the only reliable AA that EA has(the Thor can be a tad unreliable).

 

Railguneers having trouble against masterminds? You must be out of your mind.
 

Sure, Megalodons eat Masterminds for breakfast, but Marauders + magnets eat said Megalodons for breakfast.

LC is a hell of a matchup against SC because Desos and Catastrophes just ruins everything almost instantly, and the adepts the SC player can muster will be burned to ashes by the Buratinos. Also, Foxtrots exist.

 

 I think it's more about positioning, unit combination and micro and how you build your army rather than comparing units of one faction to another's.

I think there should be a mechanism to keep track of each faction's win rate in PVP. When we have the numbers, then we can tell exactly which faction is the most OP (and need a nerf).

Edited by LunaMoon, 07 November 2018 - 02:30 AM.

[Polaris Starnor]

On the subject of a tracking mechanism, I don’t think it’s doable, and even if it is, it might include things like multiplayer PvE, or ignore how much a faction is played/ who plays a faction, and overall would probably be too much work alongside working on the end of act 2, thus it won’t be reliable if possible at all, and even if we knew which factions were the best at winning, we wouldn’t know why, in the end feedback from PvP players is our best option, there are just too many factors to make it as simple as “hey this faction has a lot of wins, let’s hit it with the nerf hammer”.

[Tathmesh]

A statistics system would be nice, and we need to keep in the mind the following issues:

 

There's like 350-400 players in MO, but like Polaris Starnor said, some of these are PvE players.

 

You can filter PvE players, if the MO client can feasibly make the following checks, before recording the statistic. 

• There are no bots in the game. 
• There are at least 2 human players.
• There at least 2 different teams (*)

* I'm not sure how this one would be checked, because in-game alliances exist.

 

It would also be more reliable if we sampled from some kind of Ranked ladder for MO, because you also have to filter for situations like "people who only play with their friends non-competitively", which wouldn't reflect how a subfaction would play at the highest skill level. 

 

Even if you do all of the above, we need to take statistics with a grain of salt. There are certain details that might be overlooked.

 

For example, in League of Legends, the champion Yasuo requires an incredibly high skill to maximize his potential and works best in specific scenarios and team compositions. But this champion is an infamous noob magnet, because of his edgy samurai theme, so his popularity causes him to be overused in terrible match-ups. Something similar could happen with the popularity of subfactions, e.g., Foehn being the Yasuo of MO. 

[Drezalnor]

NorthFirez,MO will never be anything like Hearthstone.

Besides,let's talk about a LC v PC fight.

GGI said he would use mass Desolators for anti-ground.But he forgot that Epsilon has Stingers,which would murderfuck Desos like flies.Not to mention Duneriders,which are fast enough to evade their Rad Cannons and lob a few Toxin Shells in the process.Oh,and Viruses will simply pick them off.Whoa-I forgot that Magnetrons can lock them in place.

Foxtrots are broken as hell.The best one can do is to have some Gehennas around,and Gat Tanks,maybe.

Besides,how would you deal with Magnetrons and Masterminds other than using Foxes?Marauders can buy a few seconds of time for Magnetrons to freeze practically any LC vehicle.And Masterminds,supported by Repair Stingers can simply MC them(even the Catastrophe).And tbh Morales is useless aganist Stingers(they are robots) and Magnetrons(they are T3 and anyway,their drivers can't be killed).

Bomb Buggies cause the initial hiccups,but get hardcountered by Magnetrons.And Buratinos come way too late to be of any use whatsoever,what with getting butchered by Marauder+Magnetron.Vultures are screwed up by Dybbuk Interceptors and Gat Tanks.And Spooks,they can detect Arsonists,so no sneak attacks there.Steatlth detection is there in the Stinger as well.Fury Drones can create problems,yes,but not enough to overly trouble PsiCorps.

PS-These were only some of the ways PsiCorps can make life hell on earth for LC.

[Polaris Starnor]

If this conversation just keeps going on about how to counter the other factions counter to your counter, this’ll go in loops, I’d much rather if these would be put to the test to see how it goes. It would be easy to say “I’d hope they’re be some jaguars to deal with these stingers by T3 when desolators come out” or “Cata’s won’t outrange masterminds but Desos inside will, allowing hit and run”, it would be better to just see how it goes in a match, thus I’d rather you take north’s challenge on the matter.

[LunaMoon]

@Drezalnor. I'm a Psicorp main, and I have had my bloody nose against Haihead or Latin Confederation players. Although I'll admit that because I mostly play PVE so I suck in PVP.  Personally, I think Foehn is OP. But maybe because I'm not used to them yet. 

 

Back then in RA2, there was the tech service depot. It can repair vehicles. It can attack both air and land unit. Can we have it back in MO? maybe not the vanilla version but some tech turret that has a multi-purpose missile battery to defend against both land and air threats? 

Edited by LunaMoon, 07 November 2018 - 10:36 AM.

[JackoDerp]

GGI said he would use mass Desolators for anti-ground.But he forgot that Epsilon has Stingers,which would murderfuck Desos like flies.Not to mention Duneriders,which are fast enough to evade their Rad Cannons and lob a few Toxin Shells in the process.Oh,and Viruses will simply pick them off.Whoa-I forgot that Magnetrons can lock them in place.

That is genuinely the funniest thing I've read this week.
Stingers get OHKOed by Catatrophes
Stingers get squashed by even Conscripts if poorly controlled
Also Desos outrange Duneriders, so thats not happening.

Foxtrots are broken as hell.The best one can do is to have some Gehennas around,and Gat Tanks,maybe.

Besides,how would you deal with Magnetrons and Masterminds other than using Foxes?Marauders can buy a few seconds of time for Magnetrons to freeze practically any LC vehicle.And Masterminds,supported by Repair Stingers can simply MC them(even the Catastrophe).And tbh Morales is useless aganist Stingers(they are robots) and Magnetrons(they are T3 and anyway,their drivers can't be killed).

Bomb Buggies cause the initial hiccups,but get hardcountered by Magnetrons.And Buratinos come way too late to be of any use whatsoever,what with getting butchered by Marauder+Magnetron.Vultures are screwed up by Dybbuk Interceptors and Gat Tanks.And Spooks,they can detect Arsonists,so no sneak attacks there.Steatlth detection is there in the Stinger as well.Fury Drones can create problems,yes,but not enough to overly trouble PsiCorps.

PS-These were only some of the ways PsiCorps can make life hell on earth for LC.

Masterminds can be destroyed with Desolators fairly easily (Since desos don't attack each other)
Viruses are extremely easy to pick off with Morales, Vultures or Buratinos
Mortar Quads also work if you scatter them enough so Magnetrons don't stick them all
And finally you have the most OP tool in the game, Good Ol' Iron Curtain.

PsiCorps vs Latin is still PsiCorps-sided, but there are things you can do about it.

[Drezalnor]

At the very best,LC can delay their defeat against PC,nothing more.

And HQ is another tale-I don't want to get started on that.

[Tathmesh]

This is like when Aristotle sat in his armchair and thought really hard with his mighty, throbbing brain, and believed that heavy objects fall faster than lighter objects.

Then Gallileo put it into practice and disproved him.

Edited by Tathmesh, 07 November 2018 - 01:17 PM.

[NorthFireZ]

https://clips.twitch...PeanutAllenHuhu 

 

What did the actual fuck happen to that Pandora Hub? It just... changed upgrades????