54 replies to this topic

[TheWankBank]

Mental Omega really offers some amazing campaign missions, as I'm sure most of you know, many of these have intense micro-management, especially on Mental difficulty.

 

I was thinking, since we've played so many of these, the rest of Act Two missions should focus on ally support and base building maybe? don't get me wrong, these escort missions and commando missions are fun, but we have too many of them, I would love to see Act Two being concluded by each three sides have like an ally fight against them in a gigantic base building battle against a tougher bigger opponent? I always loved having allies or supporters in C&C campaign missions, as they make you feel like you're not the only one doing the heavy lifting, take for example the mission Red Dawn from Act One.

 

Also, Foehn could be entirely based on micro management missions, as lore wise they cannot take Epsilon head on and expect to win, they are limited in numbers.

 

Then again, these are just my opinions, what do you think?

[Scud]

I understand why missions are that way most of the time, 'cause if they don't, they campaign will be like a regular skirmish. Still, I did like to see more base building missions too, specially if we could chose were to deploy our MCV like in "Ghost Hunt" missions with big map like that have great replay value with all those techs bulding around.

[Solais]

I don't think it would be just regular skirmish. Sure, its engine is super flexible regarding all this, but I think Starcraft 2 managed to make probably the most varied RTS campaign ever, and it managed to do so with most missions having base building.

[TheWankBank]

What will separate it from skirmish is the fact that your enemy is way stronger, you either need strong mental focus to defeat him, or you lose.

 

Make the missions like Firewalking, it doesn't feel like skirmish at all, because you just landed in your MCV on a small amount of land, while the allies and epsilon don't attack each other, as far as I've seen, it's still a good balance so they don't overwhelm you within seconds, when you play that mission, you know it's not Skirmish due to the fact in Skirmish, matches are balanced equally, but in campaign, you have to micro, focus from the start or else you're dead.

 

It would be amazing to have allies helping you though. 

[Solais]

I wouldn't say Firewalking is a good example, considering I think the mission is broken and is the only mission from Act2 I didn't complete.

 

Seriously, Starcraft 2 IS the best example to look at. No other RTS game did campaign as good as that one.

 

In MO, missions like Godsend and Bottleneck are really good. And they are not even base building missions, even though I like those best. Juggernaut was a base building mission I really liked.

Edited by Solais, 20 February 2017 - 06:43 PM.

[CLAlstar]

They do attack each other. And think about this, 2 sides fight about teritorial control when suddenly...
-Player 3 has joined the party!-

Its obvious what will happen if they ignore you. Two dogs fight for a bone and third runs away with it. For that reason they want to immediately elliminate potential threat.

 

I mean, come on, there are even scripted events showing the fight between those two and Allies are going full desperate when you are close to capturing it.

[Martinoz]

Surely Allies are enthusiastic to see Soviets back again at Chicago that was nuked by them.

[Solais]

It's still weird that they practically gang up on you. It should be a free for all, instead of them basically allying against you and giving you no quarter to even move an inch.

[CLAlstar]

Its not even that hard, esspecialy considering the fact of how broken (for player advantage) it is. My defense against Allies = 2 bunkers, sensor tower, tesla coil and smoke turret. I dont get how people are destroyed there. Epsilon is usually stopped by tech bunker.

[Solais]

I've been repairing that tech bunker, even repairing garrisonable buildings and all that to help it out, I've surrounded the base with bunkers, couldn't stop them.

[Handepsilon]

It's a little too hard when everyone just swarms you on every direction, both ground and air.

Right on the very beginning Allies paradrops their troopers on the corner, then followed by Epsilon on the other end of the base. Then Abrams or Warhawks come to harass your miner, or your machine shop, sometimes with company of cryocopters. Then at the same time Virus start to snipe the hell out of your well placed desolators and flak troopers who are handling other threats. Then while you're handling said Virus, SEAL came on the other direction and starts bombing your base.

On top of that, I can barely notice my Russian reinforcement until it's all too late

This was all on Easy btw. At times sometimes I suspect that Easy and Mental were somehow swapped, or had no difference AI wise

Edited by Handepsilon, 21 February 2017 - 01:16 AM.

[Solais]

Don't forget the endless Dune Riders that outrange all your defenses.

Edited by Solais, 21 February 2017 - 08:27 AM.

[X1Destroy]

I have to spam 10 Desolator Catastrophes to defend on that map. There isn't any base defense that can live long against the siege cadres+riders spam.

Figured that rushing to the bridge and hold it with Catastrophes and Buratinoes was the way to go. As long as the oil derricks stand still there's money to build up more tanks.

The SCUDs must be kept alive at all cost, because there's that god damn artillery bunker over the river.

I won, but I had to ignore the US base. Because there was no time left.

Edited by X1Destroy, 21 February 2017 - 09:52 AM.

[Damfoos]

Looks like in your guys case RNG was a dick. When I was playing, the initial force was more than enough to handle US assaults (around 4 Desolastrophes + Flak troopers and some mortar quads), and the tech bunker filled 50/50 with Conscripts and Flaks was enough to stop Epsilon attacks. Viruses and Duneriders didn't appear until late, when US base was under my control already. From all the defences I've only built a bunch of bunkers to fill them with Flak troops and Conscripts. Don't waste money on Flak cannons, they are useless garbage against paradrops, better have more flak troopers for the same money. The only possible reason to build them are Invaders, but Flak troopers handle those just fine. Have some dogs in your base to kill those who've managed to land, and try to build a strike force of Desolastrophes ASAP - they can reliably kill anything, unless Adepts come their way. But those can be countered too. It is also important to keep your first harvester alive early, so focus on defending that ore field. Don't capture tech buildings unless you can secure them, and remember: capturing the US base not only stops the paradrops and assaults, but also gives you access to a large ore field.

I'll try to complete this mission without capturing that base to see how difficult it will become.

Edited by Damfoos, 21 February 2017 - 11:32 AM.

[Solais]

Didn't someone do a test that showed how the AI is basically completely random on the mission? Like, if you play the mission from going from the previous mission to that mission, the AI is more difficult, but if started from the launcher, it is -sometimes- not that difficult, but sometimes even more... it's like the AI difficulty changes based on random things you do. Hmm... maybe I'll try sacrificing a goat, maybe that will make it easier.

[Speeder]

Surely Allies are enthusiastic to see Soviets back again at Chicago that was nuked by them.

 

I like this explanation.

[Handepsilon]

We don't really need any explanation on why the Allies are so against us. We need the explanation on why the Allies would form alliance with Epsilon and only attack each others to maintain impression that they're enemies just like Pacific Front and Chinese did.

Sure that's not true lore-wise... but gameplay-wise, this is what happened to me most of the time.

Edited by Handepsilon, 21 February 2017 - 04:42 PM.

[Wayward Winds]

At the very least, you'd think the Allies would try and stop that Psychic Amplifier before it mind controlled them.  Even it was just a "Oh Sh**, we've got 5 minutes left!  Quick lads, let's stop that thing, then we'll finish giving those Commies the boot!"  You know, a last minute mass attack on Yuri's base.  Maybe just through reinforcements arriving next to the Epsilon fortifications - not along likely invasion routes the player would use (so the top left?).  Hey presto, appearances are kept up, and it's late enough that if you aren't already moving in on the Amplifier yourself then you'd lose anyway, Allies or no.

[Solais]

I think it would be better if the Epsilon didn't attack at all, just be the defender, with the Allies occasionally attacking them (maybe through scripts) and also the player. It would feel more like a race, as it is said in the briefing.

 

In SC2, there are often missions where every x minutes, there's a scripted event where a separate "player", allied or enemy, suddenly builds a strike force of their own, and it is even announced to the player via a message and a ping on the map. Maybe the Allies could do that, every x minutes, they would send a taskforce against the Epsilon base, which gets stronger each time, which in itself is a warning to the player to hurry up. The last US taskforce at the end would be strong enough to break through the already weakened defenses and capture the Amplifier, and the player losing.

 

I think this could even serve better than the tight countdown the mission got right now.

Edited by Solais, 21 February 2017 - 09:27 PM.

[CLAlstar]

 

 

Difficulty mental. For more safety you are good enough to keep your catas from start of mission alive you can use them to reinforce. Either way, those defenses were enough.