264 replies to this topic

[Roderick]

As I said, I regret to not have more free time to dedicate this month. My ambitions to SWs are mid to grand, so that my plans were to tweak and fix art details during november. As I see that the project has a) become compatible with ucs and b) added new mechanics, the art upgrade may wait for a next iteration. It's unfair to wait just for the visuals. 

 

From now on you can use these colour schemes, basically the same ones you have there but with the badges. 

 

https://www.mediafir...SW_20171014.zip

 

 

You have to notice that the SW compatibility with the objective points mod is half-baked. By this I mean that while the SWs has a distinctive flag, it is borrowed from an unused race, the Deathwing, which of course will not appear anymore since it is integrated in DA mod. My guess it's that the flag texture can be replaced by a SW banner, a common one until getting an updating of the flag 3d models for the new races.

Edited by Roderick, 14 October 2017 - 05:41 PM.

[fuggles]

If you are sure. It would be good to release a slew of mods to get onboard unification. Not to say we can't work on them further.

Equally though there is no rush, so we could wait.

Edited by fuggles, 14 October 2017 - 06:22 PM.

[caesar10044]

After playing few match vs SW as BA and DA (played normal setting and 2 players maps.

The balance seems good; SW are hard to kill (expecially in the initial part of the game) but is balanced by the fact that they can not reinforce.

I have problem, many "NO NAME" unit... but in  all the local folders  is present the SW ucs file. How can i fix it? 

[fuggles]

You running it combined with an old night lords build or anything else? What language you using?

If using moddb night lords then you need new version.
https://www.mediafir...Lords_07_27.zip

Edited by fuggles, 16 October 2017 - 10:23 AM.

[caesar10044]

You running it combined with an old night lords build or anything else? What language you using?

If using moddb night lords then you need new version.
https://www.mediafir...Lords_07_27.zip

 

Oh i use the  old version and i play steam version (eng)... thank you!

[Roderick]

No rush for these ones. I think I can do something along the next weeks. Some concrete ideas indeed.

 

I have played a little and noticed some changes: squad cap of 1 for some squads instead of 2, faster build time maybe? Are these changes intended, mostly the first? 

Which is currently the role of the bloodclaws, I mean: is it still more viable to build a barracks and get some scouts or is it better to get squads of BC for the first flags? Do they become useful along the game or can they be shadowed by the skyclaws variant?

Is the number of members per squad arbitrary? All squads start at full but with less members than a standard SM one. I suggested to increase the number as they upgrade in the tiers, like the guard; this could be make more useful the BC for the late game in case they need it. 

 

I have not thought so deep the balance so that take my comments as mere questions rather than even suggestions.

 

Iron Priest: I see that you have solved straigthforward the issue with two type builder/repairers, got the new model (cool) and put them as techmarines. However the iron priests are more than mere techmarines. I think that they are more able in combat or powerful in a broader sense. For example, what if instead of four you got only a couple but they build faster than a standard techmarine? Or another option, instead of repairing specific, they got an aura of repair as a passive or they got an aura of repair as an active inchantation.

 

- For the iron priest I have seen that they don't use the omnisiah axe but a pole-hammer. I think the Grey Knights models has that kind of hammer (not the daemonhammer). If it is in the same hand I think it could be FFE'd. If it belongs to the left hand, then leave it to me and I will try to replace in the 3d model (unless FFE also allows some trick).

 

 

Pack leaders: Do they need to get both rally and howl? I think they are too similar and could be merged. They howl, then they rally and additionally they scare the enemies nearby.

 

I like the leaders and heroes being faster than usual!

 

 

As a general remark, I think that somehow the balance is going the right way. The early game can take the upperhand almost brainless but if you cannot exploit that advantage, the middle and late game is balance enough to avoid steamrolling with them. All in all you need to be more aware of your troops or alternatively, creating more of them. I think the Orbital has a more important role for them than for other marines, hence I approve to have more variety of troops available from it.

Edited by Roderick, 17 October 2017 - 02:37 PM.

[Roderick]

Idea: Is it me or is it possible to have a taunt ability to attract enemies towards a certain unit? I think I have seen it somewhere but I cannot remember.

 

I think the lone wolves could have this ability to become a "tank" and making other squads go free to to engage and move in the battleground.  

[Gambit]

...to attract enemies towards a certain unit?

I think this is impossible...

Unless there is a specific extension (like squad_fear_ext), no modifier can achieve this.

[Roderick]

mmkay... maybe I just dreamed it. 

[fuggles]

You dreamed it. You could probably scar it...

So, you can't increase minimum squad size which means squad number scaling is out as you can't reinforce. They do get more health from upgrades than vanilla though.

Blood claws are heavy t0. I would still rely on scouts to cap, but small squad so not heavy lifters. Standard Bo is wolves, lord, claws, 2x scouts.

Claws are hard hitting melee, especially early game but obviously losses are significant.

Sky claws are slightly heavier with jetpacks. Coat more, need an armoury.

I may have left an old ucs as howl doesn't rally as that failed in coding. Howl just scares dudes.

All non reinforceable squads are cap 1. Otherwise you have a one man 2 cap squad. The squad sizes are based on trying to have them reduce through the tiers in line with lore, whilst balancing build time and power. Dropping 10 dudes at once was problematic.

Iron priest. Yeah, he can build faster or have more powerful melee, no dramas. I have a feeling he is commander armour? Can have daemon hammers unless you can recall the model. I think the vanguard have them now I think of it.

[fuggles]

0.72 (so far)

Iron priest now has a hammer. Big DPS nerf as it was crazy, but does stun.

IP can now join squads and rally.

IP costs more 100 > 160

Commander now has modified melee weapon - just about works!

 

Hoping to get a theme tune from Damnatus, but such is life.

[fuggles]

Ok, 0.72

https://www.mediafir..._Wolves_072.zip

 

Minor changes in line with the above. Unless anyone feels passionately opposed, this could be uploaded?

[thudo]

So quick overview on the backend..

 

Sound issues..

Failed to preload patch ''
    sound_storm_bolter_fire
    art/ebps/races/space__wolves/troops/razorback
Using default patch for

Know how to fix that so just need to update the razorback.whe.

 

AE issues:

Duplicate value for 'armour_type' 'tp_vehicle_med' in 'armour_piercing_types', data:attrib\weapon\space_wolves_plasma_pistol.rgd
Duplicate value for 'armour_type' 'tp_vehicle_high' in 'armour_piercing_types', data:attrib\weapon\space_wolves_plasma_pistol.rgd
Duplicate value for 'armour_type' 'tp_vehicle_med' in 'armour_piercing_types', data:attrib\weapon\space_wolves_plasma_variants.rgd
Duplicate value for 'armour_type' 'tp_vehicle_high' in 'armour_piercing_types', data:attrib\weapon\space_wolves_plasma_variants.rgd
Duplicate value for 'armour_type' 'tp_vehicle_low' in 'armour_piercing_types', data:attrib\abilities\wolves_ability_immobilise.rgd
Duplicate value for 'armour_type' 'tp_vehicle_low' in 'armour_piercing_types', data:attrib\abilities\wolves_eldritchstorm_fx.rgd
Duplicate value for 'armour_type' 'tp_vehicle_high' in 'target_filter', data:attrib\abilities\wolves_smite.rgd
Duplicate value for 'armour_type' 'tp_vehicle_high' in 'target_filter', data:attrib\abilities\wolves_smite_stormcaller.rgd
Modifier modifiers\morale_rate_squad_modifier.lua can't use squad_target_type modifiers with an application type of type_modifierapplicationtype\tp_mod_apply_to_entity.lua, data:attrib\abilities\wolves_banner_wargear.rgd
muzzle is the same as origin for weapon 'weapon\chaos_dummy_weapon.lua'. Setting muzzle to 1 metre in front of the origin, data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_exterminator.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_apothecary.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_assault_marine.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_assault_marine_vanguard.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_blood_claw.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_chaplain.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_dreadnought.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_dreadnought_hellfire_variant.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_evil_librarian.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_exterminator.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_force_commander.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_grey_hunter.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_grey_knights.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_land_raider.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_land_speeder.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_librarian.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_librarian_test.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_lone_wolf.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_njal_the_stormcaller.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_predator.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_rhino.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_sergeant.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_sergeant_assault_marine.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_sergeant_blood_claw.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_sergeant_wolf_guard.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_servitor.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_skull_probe.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_space_marine_grey_hunters.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_space_marine_sternguard.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_space_marine_tactical_bolter.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_sternguard_marine.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_techmarine.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_tempest.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_terminator.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_terminator_assault.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_terminator_flamer.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_terminator_sergeant.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_thunderhawk.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_vanguard_marine.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_venerable_dreadnought.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_veteran_sergeant.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_veteran_sergeant_assault.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_veteran_sergeant_assault_marine.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_whirlwind.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_wolf.rgd
Loading error in event_manager_ext.  Unknown modifier type(ability_laud_hailers_foeaura_event)., data:attrib\ebps\races\space_wolves\troops\wolves_wolf_guard.rgd

That is considerably less than I imagined so if you wish I can fix those also.

 

And finally art-related:

FX -- Texture 'DATA:ART/FX/0' is missing, using default!
FX -- Texture 'DATA:ART/FX/' is missing, using default!

And yes I know how to correct that also even though it looks quite vague.

 

That is exceptionally clean, good sir! Although I don't mind if it were even more insane as I've back-end cleaned up all of UA almost 2 years ago.. shheshhhhh... that was.. insane!!!

 

I did notice the SW AI gets hung up just as it reaches T2 and starts accumulating req/power but not teching or continuing the BO so assume that needs tweaking as when the DoW1 AI stops progressing that is to do something in the buildbasestrategyinfo it cannot fulfill. Again, I can take a peek.

 

Also, is there no HEROES integration? Do you want that also?

[Roderick]

I think I can provide you the "Damnatus" things, but wait for the Monday. It is not urgent, isn't it?

 

How did you do the hammer thing?

Edited by Roderick, 19 October 2017 - 07:27 PM.

[fuggles]

Oh buggeration. Stupid Razorback.

No urgency just not a lot more I can do. I see wolf lords was going to use one of the tunes as their menu song so thought I would do likewise.

Hammer was already part of the model, so text change! Ffed the force commander, I think it just about works.

All fixes appreciated gang!

This and Renegades seems pretty done.

[thudo]

I got the Razorback and those missing two FX corrected in project. I'll do the AE fixes now. Standby..

 

Very impressed with this project! WOW.. love the custom Wolf models...

 

So what about AI and HEROES? SW AI still falls to SM HARD AI all the time but noticed now it got to T3 so might need either some BO work or SW needs to be a tad stronger, balance-wise.

[fuggles]

Map dependant - small maps wolves win. Bigger maps, they have a harder time. I mostly test on mom Vs hard space marines.

Nature of the race, if the erratic AI manages to accidentally preserve its troops it wins. Plus multiple Bo's. It's not my experience they fail every time they are strong, possibly op. If you think you can improve it...? It does get to t4, so may be one erratic bo.

I just forgot to do heroes!

Edited by fuggles, 19 October 2017 - 08:26 PM.

[thudo]

Yeah I tested with 2p_Meeting_Of_Minds and 2p_Frostbite_River with Hard SM AI in Player0 and SW Hard AI as Player1 (best case for testing new mod or test factions). On the first map they had real difficulty keeping the map while on the winter one they are able to get to T3 but still get steamrolled. Thats ok.. this is the initial test phase so just wanted to throw that out there.

 

Do you want to do Heroes integration?

[Roderick]

Why is the best case that player assignment? Is it relevant?

[thudo]

Because Player0 (P0) has always been represented by a human, not the AI so that slot makes the AI do odd / unreliable things where Player1 (P1) and up is more representative of what a true DoW1 AI will do since its their natural slots. I simply find P0 AI was never 100% under the same instance as P1 and up slots hence why I always test vanilla SM AI as P0 then P1 is meant for the testing faction AI. If P1's test faction AI can defeat P0 SM AI too easily then I ramp it up to see if vanilla Tau as P0 can defeat P1 testing faction AI as we allllll know how soooo well balanced vanilla Tau is...