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CnC: Crimson Dawn


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#221 Mr. Painless

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 11:03 PM

Well I like to stay away from this whole issue, but here is what I think:

I suggest people start realizing that for now, if not forever, CD is just as PlanetCNC put it "Zero Hour in-production mega-mod".

And could we keep the flames down please(meaning you spiderman)?

Edited by Mr. Painless, 11 January 2005 - 11:06 PM.


#222 spider-man_2099

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Posted 12 January 2005 - 12:13 PM

I'm not at all flaming, I'm the only that didn't actually comment on the "game" thing, simply because I couldn't get care less, all what I said is that the models look bad, this is called "criticizing" which you probably have heard of before. Afaik you're doing good thing things with the code, anf if that's true, the graphical competence is by far outmatched.

If you want to actually improve the mod, you'll have to improve your designs, and modelling ability. I don't know which is causing the horrible graphics, but right now it seems to me like both :\.
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#223 Allied General

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Posted 12 January 2005 - 02:49 PM

r you comparing it to derelict studio productions?
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#224 Mr. Painless

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Posted 12 January 2005 - 03:38 PM

LOL!
CD looks like shit, I don't know how it plays, but if something looks like that, I wouldn't even care to try how it plays :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I was refering to this comment. And I dont know what you are looking at, but I think the models we have are looking pretty sweet. Could you point me to a specific one please?

I think CD's models are fine, and would put them on par with Imperial Assault's models. And you are correct in that I have heard of criticizing, but most of your comments are far from constructive. Perhaps try to come off as being respectiful instead of a complete ass?

And as a last note, as the head of Crimson Dawn's PR, I wiish that EVERYONE consider that CD is, as it has always been, a Total Conversion, or mega mod as I like to call it :D . IF it develops into something more, that would be pretty damn cool but only time will tell.

Edited by Mr. Painless, 12 January 2005 - 03:45 PM.


#225 Allied General

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Posted 12 January 2005 - 03:49 PM

"mega mod :)"

hyping = bad

also thats site kinda good as there not PR everywhere until its beta or game is ready ....

The PR kinda gave CD a bad rep in the 1st place and leaves a distasteful feeling in people's mouth

Edited by Allied General, 12 January 2005 - 03:51 PM.

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#226 Mr. Painless

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Posted 12 January 2005 - 03:51 PM

That should be considered a quote. Let me get the whole thing from PlanetCNC...

Crimson Dawn Updates Comment!
Saturday, January 8, 2005, 20:36 | HeXetic
Zero Hour in-production mega-mod Command & Conquer: Crimson Dawn has three new images for everyone today as well as the announcement that the team has completed a launcher tool.


Well I didnt start this topic here in the first place. A member of the CD forums did. Im just here to clean this mess up.

Edited by Mr. Painless, 12 January 2005 - 03:54 PM.


#227 Allied General

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Posted 12 January 2005 - 03:53 PM

like i said hyping is bad, very, very few games fulfil the hype and even if they do there is always minor problems e.g. Steam registration and loading times
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#228 Mr. Painless

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Posted 12 January 2005 - 03:55 PM

Hey man dont shoot the messenger. Im just taking the quote from the news post of someone else. I just like to call it that, not that you have to. Just an opinion mate.

Hehe, but I do agree with your comment on Steam :)

Edited by Mr. Painless, 12 January 2005 - 03:59 PM.


#229 AdmiralGT

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Posted 12 January 2005 - 04:36 PM

I like you Mr. Painless, and because of this I'm willing to give you a chance. I think the main problem of Crimson Dawn is the lack of communication. When I say communication, i'm talking about the transfer of information from one person to another. While a lot of information has been transferred, there has been a severe lack of understanding from those receiving the information due to some members lacking grasp of the english language. Because of this people may have came to a conclusion which may not have necessarily been intended.

However, this lack of communication appears to stem from Gideon's own inability to communicate with the community. I have spent the last 15 minutes reading back over this thread and its 220 odd replies. Apparently back in July 2004 we could expect a demo in a month's time. Studying physics, my maths skills are quite good, and it appears said demo is 5 months overdue. Secondly, we appear to be going in circles as to whether Crimson Dawn is a mod, or a game. Initially brought to this forum, described as a new game, on August 13th 2004 we finally established it as a Total Conversion. that? had great delight that from now on it would be considered a TC. However, we then reverted back to it being an entire new game, only to get go back to it being a TC once again.

Now, I can understand the initial confusion, but to change you mind 3 times over the course of 5 months is rather impressive to say the least. Not only that, but Gideon has been in contact with EA for what would now appear to be 5 months now since he began correspondance back in August. Now i've dealt with many companies and I can almost assure you that within 5 months EA would have a definite answer as to whether you could remove the CD checking software from Generals or not. Personally I believe it would take less than a day to return an answer of certainly not.

Then we have the discussion on the tank with the drill. Now I know I gave this a lot of criticism, which I feel what just criticism for something that clearly had no operational functionality at all. Were these comments taking on board or thrown away and ignored by the entire team. We had some opinions on the Mech unit saying that it wasnt frightening or practical. Again did anyone take note? It instead appears that the approach of "If you don't like it don't say anything" was in order. Surely if you are making something for the community then the opinions of the community matter?

I'm a modder myself, and understand the will to create something based on what you want to achieve, and this is why all my mod work has been kept personal by me. I created a mod the way I wanted the game to be played. If I wanted to release my mod, I would need to listen and respond to the comments of the people playing it and those who are likely to play it. This is where I feel Gideon is lacking in skills. I have to commend his coding and modelling ability, it is far greater than I could do, but the way he distributes what he has is vastly lacking. He's making something for the community, but refuses to take anyone elses comments on board. There are many skilled individuals here who can offer a great deal of ideas, criticism and help to projects, the community is able to offer a vast array of ideas and the community knows what it wants. Gideon is trying to provide something for the community, without actually understanding what the community is saying.

Crimson Dawn will most likely not suceed unless communication is vastly improved. This is where I hope you can offer a great deal of experience Mr. Painless. You can communicate ideas in both directions, and clarify issues that arise during the project. It is no good giving the community what you want to give it, you need to give it what it wants.

Apologies for the rather long post, I just wanted to say what I felt needed to be said.

Edited by AdmiralGT, 12 January 2005 - 04:57 PM.


#230 Mr. Painless

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Posted 12 January 2005 - 04:48 PM

Holy crap, July 2003? Lol have I really been around the community this long? :)

Even so I see your point, and fully agree with all that is stated.

And GT, please dont let this little topic ruin our friendship :D I still wish to work with you on The Sith War.


  I like you Mr. Painless, and because of this I'm willing to give you a chance. I think the main problem of Crimson Dawn is the lack of communication. When I say communication, i'm talking about the transfer of information from one person to another. While a lot of information has been transferred, there has been a severe lack of understanding from those receiving the information due to some members lacking grasp of the english language. Because of this people may have came to a conclusion which may not have necessarily been intended.


I also see this lack of communication a problem. Some of the members(Im not using names) dont fully have the grasp on the English language, and I wish that they wouldnt try to do a job which is in the capable hands of myself. I dont know if I would have pushed this topic/arguement to the lengths it has grown(like 12 pages). It is unessicarry and just looks bad.

However, this lack of communication appears to stem from Gideon's own inability to communicate with the community. I have spent the last 15 minutes reading back over this thread and its 220 odd replies. Apparently back in July 2003 we could expect a demo in a month's time. Studying physics, my maths skills are quite good, and it appears said demo is 5 months overdue. Secondly, we appear to be going in circles as to whether Crimson Dawn is a mod, or a game. Initially brought to this forum, described as a new game, on August 13th 2003 we finally established it as a Total Conversion. that? had great delight that from now on it would be considered a TC. However, we then reverted back to it being an entire new game, only to get go back to it being a TC once again.


I was not the one to call it a game. It is a goal, a dream. I myself many a time have called Crimson Dawn, and tell you now, as it has always been in my eyes, a total conversion mod. Also as for the member, that?, I suggest that you not think that anything he says is official and or 100% correct without seeing someone on the team say so. Let us also not forget that modding is one of the best things for people who wish to become a developer. Perhaps some of you remember the Desert Combat Mod creators, now hired by EA. Who says that down the road EA couldnt do what Valve did for Counter Strike and Day of Defeat and support Crimson Dawn. It may be a long shot, but nothing is impossible.

Now, I can understand the initial confusion, but to change you mind 3 times over the course of 5 months is rather impressive to say the least. Not only that, but Gideon has been in contact with EA for what would now appear to be 5 months now since he began correspondance back in August. Now i've dealt with many companies and I can almost assure you that within 5 months EA would have a definite answer as to whether you could remove the CD checking software from Generals or not. Personally I believe it would take less than a day to return an answer of certainly not.


/agree. I didnt realize that we were to be using our own exe file. Certainly it falls under copyright infringement, and if it so does, I shall stop me support of the illegal activity. I was still believing that we would require Zero Hour's CD to run.

Then we have the discussion on the tank with the drill. Now I know I gave this a lot of criticism, which I feel what just criticism for something that clearly had no operational functionality at all. Were these comments taking on board or thrown away and ignored by the entire team. We had some opinions on the Mech unit saying that it wasnt frightening or practical. Again did anyone take note? It instead appears that the approach of "If you don't like it don't say anything" was in order. Surely if you are making something for the community then the opinions of the community matter?


Sorry, I never saw this topic after my last reply, which was directly after I posted the tanks pic. I assumed this topic had died . If I had seen it, I would have broght it up with Gideon, but realize, all I do is the PR stuff. Not much in terms of administration/work. Anyway about that tank. I assumed it was just CD's remake of Tiberian Sun's Tick Tank. So it would just burrow half way into the ground and shoot. I believe that video I posted showed it doing that. I will say you bring up some good points now that I have read your post, and if in charge would revise it. I shall bring it up though with Gideon.

I'm a modder myself, and understand the will to create something based on what you want to achieve, and this is why all my mod work has been kept personal by me. I created a mod the way I wanted the game to be played. If I wanted to release my mod, I would need to listen and respond to the comments of the people playing it and those who are likely to play it. This is where I feel Gideon is lacking in skills. I have to commend his coding and modelling ability, it is far greater than I could do, but the way he distributes what he has is vastly lacking. He's making something for the community, but refuses to take anyone elses comments on board. There are many skilled individuals here who can offer a great deal of ideas, criticism and help to projects, the community is able to offer a vast array of ideas and the community knows what it wants. Gideon is trying to provide something for the community, without actually understanding what the community is saying.


I see your point. But I believe the reason that gideon doesnt read and take everything into consideration is because he has a very busy real life. The reason he is so good at modeling/coding is because he is a proffessional I believe. And having said that, it doesnt premit him a lot of time to be online. I talk with him everytime I get the chance, but we cant expect him here all the time can we? But he should ask the public more. Try checking out the CD forums. Most of the fans submit ideas in a huge topic made for ideas, and they are all looked at.

Crimson Dawn will most likely not suceed unless communication is vastly improved. This is where I hope you can offer a great deal of experience Mr. Painless. You can communicate ideas in both directions, and clarify issues that arise during the project. It is no good giving the community what you want to give it, you need to give it what it wants.


/agree. Glad I could take the time to have this discussion. I hope it clears things up for everyone, and you can be sure this will be read by the Team.

Edited by Mr. Painless, 12 January 2005 - 05:44 PM.


#231 AdmiralGT

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Posted 12 January 2005 - 04:56 PM

And GT, please dont let this little topic ruin our friendship :) I still wish to work with you on The Sith War.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Of course not, I will work on The Sith War for as long as needed and hope our friendship will continue much beyond the age that The Sith War will prosper. I really do hope you can bring the needed PR experience to the team. No one likes to see mods fall by the wayside, or mods not to reach their full potential, and I sincerly hope you can get Crimson Dawn to achieve that. I'll admit I don't think CD is a mod for me, but just because of that I don't want it to do badly. I give my opinion to help, not to hinder, I just want to see people achieve what they really can. Sometimes we all need a kick in the backside to get us to where we need to go.

Also, having the crappy New Year I keep forgetting its 2005 and last year was 2004. Will now amend my original post to reflect the actual date it was, rather than my imaginary date.

Edited by AdmiralGT, 12 January 2005 - 04:57 PM.


#232 Mr. Painless

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Posted 12 January 2005 - 05:21 PM

And GT, please dont let this little topic ruin our friendship :) I still wish to work with you on The Sith War.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Of course not, I will work on The Sith War for as long as needed and hope our friendship will continue much beyond the age that The Sith War will prosper. I really do hope you can bring the needed PR experience to the team. No one likes to see mods fall by the wayside, or mods not to reach their full potential, and I sincerly hope you can get Crimson Dawn to achieve that. I'll admit I don't think CD is a mod for me, but just because of that I don't want it to do badly. I give my opinion to help, not to hinder, I just want to see people achieve what they really can. Sometimes we all need a kick in the backside to get us to where we need to go.

Also, having the crappy New Year I keep forgetting its 2005 and last year was 2004. Will now amend my original post to reflect the actual date it was, rather than my imaginary date.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


/agree

Also anyone so desires, I am still updating my other post. Keep reading if you want.

edit: Finsihed my huge reply.

Edited by Mr. Painless, 12 January 2005 - 05:45 PM.


#233 spider-man_2099

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Posted 12 January 2005 - 06:33 PM

I was refering to this comment. And I dont know what you are looking at, but I think the models we have are looking pretty sweet. Could you point me to a specific one please?

I think CD's models are fine, and would put them on par with Imperial Assault's models. And you are correct in that I have heard of criticizing, but most of your comments are far from constructive. Perhaps try to come off as being respectiful instead of a complete ass?

And as a last note, as the head of Crimson Dawn's PR, I wiish that EVERYONE consider that CD is, as it has always been, a Total Conversion, or mega mod as I like to call it :) . IF it develops into something more, that would be pretty damn cool but only time will tell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


First of all I was talking to that?, and this seemed to be the most appropriate language to use with him atm if you read all his posts regarding CD.

You obviously have much better communication skills, and a team member too. So I'll give you some "constructive" criticism as you put it.

First of all, the quality of your art is by far inferior to that of imperial assault, I don't know how can you even compare between them.

Texturing is pretty bad everywhere, too repetetive, too much tilling, too plain, and sometimes errors like on the cannon thingie.

Models are made mostly out of simple primatives, nothing impressive at all. Just the designs are making them ugly I guess.

Designs are the worst, not only are they ugly, but also look highly ineffiecent, and unfunctional (I study engineering, so I know a thing or two about how things work), and "this is the future, with really different metals and stuff" won't really cut it, there are simple, fixed, rules of physics that everything has to obey.

As for CD being a TC thing, which I normally avoided, but since you brought it up, check out your home page, sais "GAME progress".
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#234 ComradeJ

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Posted 13 January 2005 - 11:44 AM

I totally agree with Spidey on the things of physics and designs. The designs of the units/buildings are absolutely horrible, although I can't exactly put my finger on it.

That, and the story seems awful. It claims to be the next C&C, but there's no link at all to WW's masterpieces. If you want to use you own ideas, fine, but don't claim it's related to C&C in any way to get more attention, because the atmosphere is obviously very different.

Whew, am I glad (that?) has been 'replaced' now...
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#235 Allied General

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Posted 14 January 2005 - 09:39 AM

story is wrong, the whole space travel, altering the classic logos and making CABAL look like the borg ...
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#236 Destroyer

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Posted 14 January 2005 - 05:30 PM

That, and the story seems awful. It claims to be the next C&C, but there's no link at all to WW's masterpieces. If you want to use you own ideas, fine, but don't claim it's related to C&C in any way to get more attention, because the atmosphere is obviously very different.


Well, EA did it with Generals, so I guess they figured they should too (not saying that it's a good idea to follow EA, though :D )

#237 ComradeJ

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Posted 14 January 2005 - 06:11 PM

A bit, but at least EA only used the name. It's story, sides and units were completely independent.
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#238 Mr. Painless

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Posted 14 January 2005 - 09:45 PM

That, and the story seems awful. It claims to be the next C&C, but there's no link at all to WW's masterpieces. If you want to use you own ideas, fine, but don't claim it's related to C&C in any way to get more attention, because the atmosphere is obviously very different.


Well, EA did it with Generals, so I guess they figured they should too (not saying that it's a good idea to follow EA, though :D )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lmao. I have gotten a lot of feedback with the story, but since it is still pending, I am sure if enough of you want the change, then it will be revisited.




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