5260 replies to this topic

[ApOcOlYpS]

Well....it was going well, then I ran into a major crash issue. I'm working with Creator to get it sorted.

For the next release (which I plan for end of September) I want to have Airforce and Tanks using tech tree upgrades to unlock units, and I want Superweapons to have her two tech specializations implemented. And of course I want everything that I included balanced, which at this point is really just costing upgrades appropriately. I think that's an attainable goal because I should have Airforce and Tanks finished before I go back to school on Monday, and so then it's just adding a few new models to Superweapons, tweaking some command sets and that's about it.

I might (MIGHT) push back that date to fix some AI issues. With the changes I've made, the AI is probably pretty broken. So I'd go through and patch it up so it works again for airforce, cyber, tanks and demo. It depends on how long things take.

[Tomeister]

Cool;) is that including the new super weapon an rail guns your giving her?

[ApOcOlYpS]

That's the hope. The main thing I expect to set me back (other than the crashes I'm dealing with now) will be adding new generals powers. I just feel those will take longer than I'd like, but we'll see.

[ApOcOlYpS]

Right, I have a question for people. Airforce has 4 different styles of air combat: Fighters, bombers (and other large aircraft), helicopters and VTOL (orcas and the like). The reason to take fighters is they're quick, cheap, and are great against single targets. The reason to take bombers is because they can kill groups of enemies and provide good support for a ground force, or even for other planes. The reason to take helicopters is because they're adaptable, being able to stay fighting in the field without going to base to reload. Why would you take VTOL?

I'm entirely open to new suggestions for this, I don't just want responses from what's in the game at the moment. Should they be in general longer range than other aircraft, able to shoot at enemies from relative saftey? Should they combine the resilience of bombers with the speed of fighters, sacrificing in firepower? Any suggestions for a new VTOL craft (an interceptor perhaps? Or one armed with a lot of machine guns for killing infantry?)? I need ideas!

[ApOcOlYpS]

The only problem with that is helicopters already sort of hold the "swarm with lots" thing, and certainly fit it better since they're lower tech than VTOL craft. VTOL craft are also constrained by the number of hangars you have, and so can't do swarm well.

[Thats me!]

maybe make them have more armor then fighters,but less speed(more then heli's tough),also they shall fire a missile at a time(making them easier to micro,as fighters empty their salvo in one go),also longer range will make them a viable option.
so VTOL will be kind of ''jack of all trades,master of none''

[SEX^^PAWELPM7]

Get to work boy
and finish up that mod with light speed ahahah ))

[Blockhead]

i have suggestion for tank gen super weapon
make it like big lightning ball shot from sattelite, it should be able to destroy single warfactory and then from not so big explosion errupts 5-10 chain lightings they can jump 2-3 times on nearby units and each time damage like lighting tank would do.
so like this you can destroy single building and lots of enemy units if they are nearby, but if there no units then it would only damage single building
something like this would look great i think

[ApOcOlYpS]

I'm hesitant towards adding new Superweapons. I'm willing to do so for Superweapons general because it's in her name, but I don't want the game to become focussed on them. Tanks is better off focusing on building superior tanks, and having support powers for that (I may even remove the nuke, although having such a weapon is extremely helpful, especially for clearing defenses and the like, we'll see).

Any more ideas on VTOL? I won't be implementing them right away to be sure, since that'll be quite a few models I have to build, but any other suggestions for what their schtik should be would be helpful.

I am still working, although there's still a crashing problem that Creator and I are trying to sort. I got my text hunter working a bit better so that will hopefully help square some of these issues (or all of them...I like all of them, let's aim for that). Hopefully with all the bug fixing I've been doing the game will be more stable as well. We'll see when I get a release out. It's already mid september, and I don't think I'll be able to meet an end of September deadline, mainly because I do want to return the AI to some extent and I don't know how hard that'll be, plus having to add new models and effects to Superweapons is going to be a bit of a pain. I'll see what I can do.

[Tomeister]

What about VTOL almost be stealth like units. So they are weak, but fast and stealthed? Or loads of ammunition, so they have long runs before going in, but little firepower.

Everything else sounds good, keep up the good work.

[Thats me!]

What about VTOL almost be stealth like units. So they are weak, but fast and stealthed?

helicopters already fit that role imo.
i still think they should be like a heli/fighter hybrid (orcas from tiberian series comes to mind)

@ApOcOlYpS:take your time

[ApOcOlYpS]

I don't wanna take my time! I want to get this working again (although the fact that I can't seem to find this error makes working a daunting task, and hard to get started. But I'll get there!)

And actually, fast and stealthed units are fighter's area. So let's try and take a look at what each thing does. Maybe that'll help get an idea for VTOL. These are also generalizations as there will be some exceptions (but maybe there shouldn't be, we'll see).

Fighters: Fast, strong against single targets.

Bombers: Slow, armored, very strong against groups of enemies

Helicopters: Staying power (most useful pushing an advance or holding an area). strong against single targets.


Now while it seems that, since there are two groups that shoot single targets and one that shoots groups that VTOL should be anti-group. However I don't agree with that. I think that anti-group should be a subclass of each of the other types. For example, fighters have the f-44 Rapier's high explosive missiles that can kill small groups, or the littlebird caller for helicopters (don't know if I want to keep caller choppers though). I'm also planning on adding an upgrade that gives the F-18 a small cluster bomb instead of its missiles (it's kind of like a small version of the B-1's bombing run). Helicopters have rocket pods, and the cobra can kill small groups of infantry. As it is, VTOL has the sea lion which can kill small groups with high explosive missiles.

So, VTOL should focus on single targets, and what seems best is to make them a mid ground between fighters and helicopters. That said, it may be best to make them the most expensive of the bunch, but give them superior weapons to both as well. So VTOL will be as fast as fighters (before Impulse Engines upgrade), have more staying power due to a high ammo capacity, and be about as strong firepower wise, probably with longer range. I'm also thinking of having a VTOL interceptor, but I don't think I'll actully do that. Leave intercepting to fighters.

So, with VTOL being in general better than the other classifications, why would you take fighters or helicopters (bombers still win out with massive damage over a large area, so they have their own thing)? Well, eventually fighters get quite a bit faster, making them more survivable because they start to outrun enemy tracking. Fighters also get access to larger hangers, meaning you have more jets. Fighters also are in general stealthed, making them even harder for an enemy to deal with since they cannot see your jets attacking. Fighters also will reload faster (smaller payload so quicker to fill it), making them better at fighting truely large groups. While VTOL is better at staying around and killing small/medium strike forces, they'll have a longer reload time making them do less overall damage. This is of course in addition to VTOL being more expensive.

You would take helicopters because they have the true staying power. In addition, they will be in general cheaper and more adaptable. I'm thinking that VTOL jets will be specialized, just like fighters and will have their set targets (except for, maybe, the really high tier ones). Helicopters on the other hand could have a machine gun as well as their missiles, making them true generalists. Helicopters also don't require a hangar to land at.

But you'd still take VTOL because they have the highest alpha (so to speak) against single targets of the bunch, and have much more staying power than fighters due to a large payload.

I think that's the route I'll take, and then balances or weapon changes or whatever can take place afterwards. Also, I think this means I need to slow helicopters down (I think they're close to fighter speeds as is and I want a bit more of a discrepancy). But of course, all this will be dealt with AFTER I get the crash issue fixed.

Also, after a whole bunch of testing, I'm reasonably assured that the cause od the crash is NOT a typo....which actually makes it harder to find because I don't know what I'm looking for.

Edited by ApOcOlYpS, 25 September 2012 - 05:28 PM.

[Thats me!]

i like what you are planning.
also as i said above make them(vtol) fire one missile a time,instead of their full salvo,will make them a little easier to micro when in groups.

[ApOcOlYpS]

I'm going to give them weapons with a relatively slow rate of fire and high weapon speed. This means their shots hit their target shortly after they shoot, so there should be very little wasted ammo.

[ApOcOlYpS]

I think Creator implemented some thing where, if a set of missiles are targetted on a unit that is killed, they change targets. I'll look into that. However changing the rate of fire on jets wouldn't really be of any use, and in fact would make them a lot worse for those of us who micro manage them (or if I were to compensate damage, they'd be vastly over powered for those of us who micromanage). Really to use jets best, you HAVE to select them individually and give each a target. If you don't want to do that, well that's what bombers and helicopters are there for.

[Tomeister]

Hey. Found that crash yet?

[ApOcOlYpS]

Still working on it. I don't really have a plan to keep searching for it though. So instead I've been redoing most of my changes (trying to keep them as minimal as possible) to test it again. HOPEFULLY it'll work this time, and then I can move on making the other changes one by one to see when it crashes. Since I'm keeping a lot more of the standard upgrades in I'm expecting it to go well...but we'll see. I hope to get these changes done by Saturday night, which is a very realistic goal, so I'll let people know what happens then.


Edit: Okay, I think 'shit' is an applicable word for this time. I'm about half done with the second round of the renaming process when I decided to do a test of what I had. I still have the same crash despite changing FAR fewer upgrades...it's possible there's still only one or two hard coded upgrades that I don't know about and were I to find those I could just leave those in place, but that's a LOT of effort to figure out, though I have a few suspects. Still....I'm going to need a bit to figure out what I'm going to do now.

Edit2: So I did some more testing, and now I'm almost positive the reason for the move crash is because I removed an upgrade I'm not allowed to. So, I'm going to go through the upgrade file and remove upgrades one by one to find out which it is. Then, I SHOULD be able to simply reinstate it, and everything will work again. At least, that's the hope. I won't have a chance to work on it until tonight or tomorrow though, so I'll have news then.

Edit3: IT LIVES!!!! I got the damn thing working again! Now I can get back to work on REAL mod stuff! Expect to hear more from me as I get new upgrades implemented, new units, whatever! As a note, I'm aiming for a release that includes the updated Superweapons and tech trees for Airforce and Tank general (as upgrades) by the end of November (I know, pushing it back AGAIN). However, I promise that by the end of December, there WILL be a release including the above (and I hope quite a bit more).

Edited by ApOcOlYpS, 14 October 2012 - 12:12 AM.