94 replies to this topic

[thudo]

Creator! Thats exactly what we tried! The problem is though that when you do that, the generic transport overlord gets no bunker graphics and 100% health again when the upgrade is completed - as well as probably loosing veterancy and such.

Okie.. I've created two teams and I've set the Overlord to build ONE ATTACK WAVE before the troops do. Essentially, the Overlord rolls off the WarFactory and moves around a little, then in a short duration the troops are created, the Overlord gets the Bunker then nothing happens. It obviously looks cleaned compared to before so now I'll try adding the TRANSPORT options and telling the troops to "garrison in transports" rather than "in a building".

Right now, however, I'm more concerned in designing a universal base layout so the AIs no matter where they start on the map have enough room to build ALL BUILDINGS in whatever orientation they can. I believe I have an idea what the prob is. :tocol: This is critical as what good is an AI player if he can't build his 3+ Superweapons! If he can build those then all base-building scripts have "fired-off" correctly.

[thudo]

Damn Creator! Fabulous! I do however like the idea of an Overlord coming out with a Bunker already although the object types for the OVERLORD are still considered as STRUCTURE. I would prefer a GARRISION IN TRANSPORT far more than a BUILDING. I don't think the problem is in the timing now of the Bunker being built but the Overlord+Bunker attributes.

I could add all that in.. Quite o bit mind you.

[Mithril]

It's not only the graphics. The overlord's health will be replenished to 100% when you buy the upgrade, plus you will loose all veterancy..

[thudo]

It's not only the graphics. The overlord's health will be replenished to 100% when you buy the upgrade, plus you will loose all veterancy..

Hmm.. maybe we just need to create a Bunkered Overlord right out of the WarFactory. Still, that doesn't negate the fact that the Overlord's upgrades are considered as STRUCTURES so thus the GARRISON BUILDING still applies although still does not work.

Anyone wanna try Creator's method to see if the troops do garrison and the Overlord heads off with the troops firing from within the Bunker?

[Mithril]

I've tried that, remember? It worked. The only problem was that the two I have mentioned... heh, we're not done here yet after all!

[thudo]

I've tried that, remember? It worked. The only problem was that the two I have mentioned... heh, we're not done here yet after all!

Gawd what a pain! This and BombTruck-related scripting is super-advanced! Like trying to pull teeth outta the Sage Engine where teeth don't exist! :so:

Hell.. I'm still trying to tweak the base configs so no matter where they start, all buildings are placed. Talk about BS! Convinced that "RotateSkirmishBases=Yes" is better than "=No". With "=No" the bases are rotated at 45 degrees so any base defenses around the edge are cut off. Gawd damn pathetic! Everything would have been perfect but a SKirmish AI without proper base defenses is an AI ready to be fodder and I didn't come all this way to see my AI be fodder!

[Mithril]

So RV's method didn't work? Damn... what did you do to those build lists!


Man we are generating problems so steadily its scary! The back of my mind is still working on the bomb truck while the lower right corner is doing this overlord garrison, the other one sits there idle..

[thudo]

So RV's method didn't work? Damn... what did you do to those build lists!


Man we are generating problems so steadily its scary! The back of my mind is still working on the bomb truck while the lower right corner is doing this overlord garrison, the other one sits there idle..

No no... I still enable RotateSkirmishBases=Yes and its better.. all base defenses get built in a massive zone around the base and most SWs gets built. I just need some fine tweaking. Using Madskillz tool is invaluable. Having the AI use RotateSkirmishBases=Yes in the AIDATA.INI makes the AI build as a 90degree square rather than a 45 degree one! Thats complete BS building like a 45 degree square! Bahhh.. whats the bloody point? Anyway.. bases build more reliabily now and I'm beginning to understand why some buildings build outside base defenses.

I just need additional help with the Overlord Bunker and Bombtruck + still trying to get those damn Helixes's to drop Napalm but I think I know what the prob is.

[Mithril]

Hmm well creator I've read your post and you said you wanted to make an "AI only" upgrade? That can be done by modifying the build list - but are we not digging too deeply into the inis here? It may increase the mismatch problem - anyways go ahead and post your solution and we'll see if it works...

[Creator]

Mithril, Overlord can save its veterancy. Read my previous post again. Health will be replenished to 100%. But Overlord must build its upgrade only once. So it is not big problem.

[thudo]

Mithril, Overlord can save its veterancy. Read my previous post again. Health will be replenished to 100%. But Overlord must build its upgrade only once. So it is not big problem.

I'll give Creator's suggestions a go and implement this in the ChinaVehicle.ini. Just to see it work is major. I keep seeing the BattleBus doing its thing to perfection so its time to see a little Bunker Overlord action although I won't be having many of them around due to cost. But.. If I can get them in a small swarm with Gattling/Prop Overlord then we're in business! hehhe

[thudo]

Actually, Creator I have an idea:

Can you submit the entire OVERLORD section starting from:

;------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Object ChinaTankOverlord

To whereever the last section is needed?

I can then simply copy/paste it back into that section and be off with it!

THANKS!

[thudo]

Here is the latest release of Madskillz ProjectEdit (the fabulous BuildList tool for redesigning your AI bases!). There are still some minor features missing (able to visually rotate objects, GLA Demo General's DemoTraps are sometimes shown strangely, objects are selected by running the cursor over them even if unintended). Hopefully, he can look at those.

Attached Files

•  ZH_BuildList_ProjectEdit.zip   139.34KB   46 downloads

[thudo]

Okie..

a) Is this for a regular overlord or a clone so that it comes pre-made with the Bunker already installed?

B) Do the troops need to be on the same team as this Overlord with scripts "garrison in transports" OR do the troops have to use "enter a building"? Or do they have to be on seperate teams meant to merge together then load in the Overlord's bunker?

[Mithril]

This method is a strange. It makes another overlord which kills the other one - but the health is not preserved! True, the veterancy will but once you get the upgrade you'll get a fully repaired overlord with a bunker..

[thudo]

This method is a strange. It makes another overlord which kills the other one - but the health is not preserved! True, the veterancy will but once you get the upgrade you'll get a fully repaired overlord with a bunker..

Uhmm.. I don't get it..

It won't matter if the Overlord is sent back to full health once it acquires the Bunker as the chances of him being mass-attacked while the team+script run for the Overlord Bunker is small. If it works then at least we have a workaround. Its minor that he gains full health with a Bunker upgrade BUT its a one-time thing.

I'm more concerned about Online Synch errors.. Mismatching is not good. :bluch:

[thudo]

Would be really great if this worked - as it would allow us to check off another item on our list

I'll keep ya posted as I get to it *very* shortly..

Continue looking into the BombTruck issues - thats the HOLY GRAIL OF SAGE SCRIPTING and probably one of the cooler most under-used Skirmish AI vehicles! Having him disguise on-que and make the approach is critical (disguising mid-field might be tactically-tricky to pull off BUT its a compromise considering EA isn't making it easy for us).

Thanks guys!

[Mithril]

Yes currently we have two methods of rerouting it:

1. Give the bomb truck team a timer so that they move to the enemy base and when a timer is at a certain value it disguises as the nearest 'tanks'

2. Make a simple object list of all VEHICLES that do not belong to the GLA faction, and use that list. This could be changed, you could make a regular object list with ALL VEHICLES and then remove all GLA vehicles if the current player owns them.

[Mithril]

BTW you said the helix did not use its napalm bombs... well in the original ZH scripts it says it should hunt with the commandbutton ability - yet the ini does not have a CommandbuttonHuntUpdate! Could that be the problem?

[Msakdillz]

You talk like you know an algorythm that require 10Ghz.

Things are not as complex as you think. Some years ago I made bots for first Quake. They were good (but not exellent). The main is they were not cheaters!!!

Mithril called you "master scripter". I thought you know how to make AI that will not have a need to cheat the game, but I was wrong.

My opinion is: Better to make AI that will not cheat (does not matter if it is stupid or clever). If player want more difficult gameplay he must play against more than one computer (difficultly settings better to be cut).

Creator.. I have no clue what got you off this way this morning. Its a given with the SAGE engine that it needs to cheat in order to preform - period! Ask RVMECH.. you must give money to the AI 'sometimes' in order to make it do what you want it to do. You said it yourself: you were wondering why the AI wasn't building something for you. I responded that the SAGE engine requires the AI be given money to do the action.

Now you come back with this EVEN WITHOUT playing my AI on the field. Thats what the beta test will be.

Play AoM: Titans and tell me that robust Skirmish AI system doesn't cheat? Once you hit HARD guess what? It cheats - it gets super-massive bonuses across the board and on TITAN skill its pure and unadulterated sickness how fast it builds.

So don't go spouting to me about the SAGE engine and its internal mechanics. You script the SAGE AI and see how far you get with it - you won't. Just because it gets money like it does in AoM: Titans DOES NOT MEAN you'll lose all the time. Look at it as a challenge plus taking on two of my AIs is VERY CHALLENGING so expect to be owned unless yer good.

Remember: the cash infusions are meant to compensate for what a human would do: budget his economy super-well. An AI can only be map-aware so much compared to a super self-aware Pro Player. Anyway, I take it from your response to me that yer knowledge of the SAGE AI system is not robust quite yet - true? Have you ever scripted an entire faction from the ground up? Play test it til you were satisfied? :tocol:

what up in the hizo , BAck to a realy old subject but ive been gone . My AI cheats a lil bit too , but ive been trying to make it servive on its own more , with speeeed! and a sound plan , thus it wont have to think like i do so it will be faster.. Take the Tank gen , ive been focus on the computer dominating the map and chocking your money resources to death by Taking over all the resources while send teams of tanks to kill you! plus ive made it so they build a crap load of hackers and spread them out everywhere , if there hacker supply goes down they build more while still keeping up on there defense and money to kill ... All my Generals will use this kind of method. My super weapon gen is almost impossible any one want to help me test my AI tell me . I do cheat and give them some money so they can spread quicker but i try to make it as if your playing a human.... I realy want to play your AI though thudo hehe..