We haven't decided yet, but a siege weapon like a ram or a catapult seems likely.
Ideas Topic
Started by Mathijs, Mar 05 2006 03:12 PM
100 replies to this topic
#61
Mathijs
-
- Network Leaders
-
- 13,758 posts
Post-modern Shaman
- Projects:Age of the Ring
- Division:Revora
- Job:Leader
Posted 24 August 2006 - 09:02 PM
No fuel left for the pilgrims
#62
Orc Master
-
- New Members
-
- 40 posts
Posted 24 August 2006 - 09:40 PM
Yeah, a ram made with a big dragon bone...
#63
Guest_Guest_*
Guest_Guest_*
-
- Guests
Posted 25 August 2006 - 04:36 AM
Yes, however Tolkien created the Hobbit as a children's book, he didn't have the plan in mind to incorporate it into his Silmarillion and later LotR works yet. Quotes from the Hobbit aren't canon to me.
Excuse me, but if you don't consider a book published by J.R.R. Tolkien as canon (with several elements appearing in the most canon Tolkien book ever as Glóin, Balin, Elrond, Gandalf, Rivendell, etc as proof that it was incorpored completely in his legemdarium ) and you consider canon a book published by his son (the Silmarillion) with several known mistakes admited by Cristopher Tolkien himself in the well-known History of Middle-earth serie, you are seriously mistaken.
Even the more children's aspect in the LotR as the speaking-eagles are maintenied in LotR and by definition 'canon' is every book publishing by the author himself rather than incomplete works published by his son. It's a matter of fact.
#64
Mathijs
-
- Network Leaders
-
- 13,758 posts
Post-modern Shaman
- Projects:Age of the Ring
- Division:Revora
- Job:Leader
Posted 25 August 2006 - 09:25 AM
Tolkien also admitted that he left some elements behind in the Hobbit that were there because it was meant as a childrens book. When Tolkien wrote the Hobbit, he didn't even think of Rivendell as part of Middle-Earth yet. When Tolkien wrote the Hobbit, his writings that later became the Silmarillion weren't close to the shape they are now. Around that time he was writing about Elves and their wars against a Dark Lord, not thinking about Gloin, Bilbo, Elrond and Rivendell. Those connections came into being when he began writing the sequel to the Hobbit, which quickly became more dark and serious. That turned into The Lord of the Rings, and he placed it into his early writings about Silmarils and Elven wars.
No fuel left for the pilgrims
#65
Guest_Guest_*
Guest_Guest_*
-
- Guests
Posted 25 August 2006 - 11:16 AM
Tolkien also admitted that he left some elements behind in the Hobbit that were there because it was meant as a childrens book.
Not exactly, he said it begins like a children's book and ends in a more serious tone. However all those elements are inherent part of Middle-earth by definition.
When Tolkien wrote the Hobbit, he didn't even think of Rivendell as part of Middle-Earth yet. When Tolkien wrote the Hobbit, his writings that later became the Silmarillion weren't close to the shape they are now.
Yes, and before the Hobbit he had yet another conception about the Silmarillion. But if you are talking about Tolkien's Middle-earth, I assume you talk about the last version and not about some earlier one such the conception Tolkien had when he was writing the Hobbit and he hadn't begun LotR.
Around that time he was writing about Elves and their wars against a Dark Lord, not thinking about Gloin, Bilbo, Elrond and Rivendell. Those connections came into being when he began writing the sequel to the Hobbit, which quickly became more dark and serious. That turned into The Lord of the Rings, and he placed it into his early writings about Silmarils and Elven wars.
Not really, the Hobbit was incorporated into his legendarium since its very making. There you are Manwë's Great Eagles, Elrond lord of the Elves of Old and several other links to the Silmarillion. Later works such LotR reinforce the coherence betwen the Hobbit and the rest of his works.
#66
dojob
-
- Project Team
-
- 1,304 posts
AoW+DoW ftw
- Location:New York
- Projects:Beta testing for WoA, RJ, and KotW
- Cav Rusher + Beta Tester
Posted 25 August 2006 - 04:54 PM
k, here are some ideas of mine, many apologies if they were already given or are being used.
Mordor faction:
New units:
-orc pikemen: ur shitty basic pikemen, trained from the orc pit
-mordor uruks: slightly better than isengard uruks, but no shieldwall formation.
-maybe a Rhun unit or two
New buildings:
-Morgul Armory: ur basic armory, allows for the Morgul Armor, Scavenged Blades, and Fire Arrows upgrades
-Rhun Barracks(?)
Rohan Faction:
Buildings:
-farm: earns money and trains peasants
-barracks: trains pitchforkers and yeoman warriors
-archery range: trains yeoman archers, peasant skirmishers, and allows the fire-arrows upgrade
-stable: trains rohirrim and rohirrim archers
-well: duh
-statue: duh
-fort: duh
-tower: duh
-armory: allows armor, blades, and banners upgrades
-town center: like the gondor market; upgrades econ and peasants
Units:
-peasants: shitty basic spammable infantry
-pitchforkers: pikes
-yeoman warriors: elite swordsmen; get a "throw spear" ability at level 2 and cost more than peasants
-yeoman archers: ur main archer unit
-peasant skirmishers: siege; throw spears and rocks
-Riders of Rohan: same as bfme1 but more per battalion
-Rohirrim Archers: same as bfme1 but more per battalion
-*maybe royal guards, which can mount/dismount
Gondor Faction:
New units:
-Gondor spearmen: basic pike unit
-Knights of Dol Amroth: slow tier 2 cavalry with good attack/trample
*rangers actually get a sword/bow toggle
*tower guards moved to tier 2 and can switch between pike and sword
Mordor faction:
New units:
-orc pikemen: ur shitty basic pikemen, trained from the orc pit
-mordor uruks: slightly better than isengard uruks, but no shieldwall formation.
-maybe a Rhun unit or two
New buildings:
-Morgul Armory: ur basic armory, allows for the Morgul Armor, Scavenged Blades, and Fire Arrows upgrades
-Rhun Barracks(?)
Rohan Faction:
Buildings:
-farm: earns money and trains peasants
-barracks: trains pitchforkers and yeoman warriors
-archery range: trains yeoman archers, peasant skirmishers, and allows the fire-arrows upgrade
-stable: trains rohirrim and rohirrim archers
-well: duh
-statue: duh
-fort: duh
-tower: duh
-armory: allows armor, blades, and banners upgrades
-town center: like the gondor market; upgrades econ and peasants
Units:
-peasants: shitty basic spammable infantry
-pitchforkers: pikes
-yeoman warriors: elite swordsmen; get a "throw spear" ability at level 2 and cost more than peasants
-yeoman archers: ur main archer unit
-peasant skirmishers: siege; throw spears and rocks
-Riders of Rohan: same as bfme1 but more per battalion
-Rohirrim Archers: same as bfme1 but more per battalion
-*maybe royal guards, which can mount/dismount
Gondor Faction:
New units:
-Gondor spearmen: basic pike unit
-Knights of Dol Amroth: slow tier 2 cavalry with good attack/trample
*rangers actually get a sword/bow toggle
*tower guards moved to tier 2 and can switch between pike and sword
Some helpful info on RotWK replays
Game Replays Forums; I am Panda Bear™
Awesome sig by TravTech
PANDA POWER!!!
Game Replays Forums; I am Panda Bear™
Awesome sig by TravTech
PANDA POWER!!!And please add Bear-mans
#67
alfreak1
-
- Members
-
- 105 posts
Posted 27 August 2006 - 01:40 AM
We haven't decided yet, but a siege weapon like a ram or a catapult seems likely.
Since giants are getting the boot, are trolls going to get better ranged attacks? The goblins would be a little lacking without that.
I like the dragon bone idea. Make it huge with big fangs on it
#68
Gherrick
-
- Project Team
-
- 374 posts
Drunken Bastard
Posted 27 August 2006 - 09:41 AM
Warhammer Dwarves? What do you mean? And with the plate armour: Tolkien WAS NOT armour master so he inserted all chainmail (only given dwarves from iron hills scale) and Dol Amroth Knights plate (there is a quote in RoTK when says Imrahil came with 700 full plate armoured horse knights)
#69
Orc Master
-
- New Members
-
- 40 posts
Posted 27 August 2006 - 09:20 PM
Warhammer Dwarves are dwarves with cartoonish a colorful weird armors.
As for the armors of the Gondorians, I do think that designing a chainmail armor shouldn't be that hard. But we want to stick with WETA's design.
Look at it this way: We're bringing Middle-Earth to the game in LOTS of ways, from changing the dwarves to removing the dragons, from adding Harad as a separated faction to getting rid of spider riders. With all those changes, are you going to worry for a few Gondorian soldiers in plate armor?
As for the armors of the Gondorians, I do think that designing a chainmail armor shouldn't be that hard. But we want to stick with WETA's design.
Look at it this way: We're bringing Middle-Earth to the game in LOTS of ways, from changing the dwarves to removing the dragons, from adding Harad as a separated faction to getting rid of spider riders. With all those changes, are you going to worry for a few Gondorian soldiers in plate armor?
#70
Guest_Guest_*
Guest_Guest_*
-
- Guests
Posted 29 August 2006 - 04:49 PM
And with the plate armour: Tolkien WAS NOT armour master so he inserted all chainmail (only given dwarves from iron hills scale)
He was not a botanist and did describe a lot of kinds of plants in his books, he was not a zoologist and did describe several kind of animals. Would you alter Wargs to your personal likings because that reason?
Also, there are more than just chainmails (although they are quite common) and scale armours. For example we have Haradrim armor, which it is said to be made of overlapping plates. This sounds like lamellar armour, or perhaps is some unique construction. It has also been suggested that the Haradrim armour ay have been made like the Lorica Segmentata of the Romans (I'm following Joe Piela's essay here). It could be something like that:
(Ilyad Miniatures)
and Dol Amroth Knights plate (there is a quote in RoTK when says Imrahil came with 700 full plate armoured horse knights)
I think you are refering to this quote:
And last and proudest, Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth, kinsman of the Lord, with gilded banners bearing his token of the Ship and the Silver Swan, and a company of knights in full harness riding grey horses
Accordinf to dictonary, harness means here: (Archaic) Armor for a man or horse. . So it is not 'plate armor', it could be any kind. But if you keep reading with attention you will notice that Prince Imrahil, and many (if not all) the Swan Knights wore Mail Coat, helm, vambraces, shield, spear, and sword. No plate armor is ever mentioned.
Warhammer Dwarves are dwarves with cartoonish a colorful weird armors.
I meant the original EA Dwarves with their gunpowder barrels and so. IMO they were more Warhammer's than Middle-earth's and it's very good to see them removed from the game and propperly corrected.
As for the armors of the Gondorians, I do think that designing a chainmail armor shouldn't be that hard. But we want to stick with WETA's design.
Look at it this way: We're bringing Middle-Earth to the game in LOTS of ways, from changing the dwarves to removing the dragons, from adding Harad as a separated faction to getting rid of spider riders. With all those changes, are you going to worry for a few Gondorian soldiers in plate armor?
I do agree with you, your mod will be far closer to Tolkien's work. But I can't help finding a bit frustrating you can have perfection in that aspect and choose not to.
Anyway... keep the good work and big thanks for your effort!!
#71
Guest_Guest_*
Guest_Guest_*
-
- Guests
Posted 29 August 2006 - 04:52 PM
It looks like I forgot the image link for the Haradrim armor, sorry. Here it is:
[img]
http://www.asmodee.com/produits/730/blln42-175.jpg[/img]
And here you are the URL in case the direct link doesn't work: http://www.asmodee.com/produits/730/blln42-175.jpg
[img]
http://www.asmodee.com/produits/730/blln42-175.jpg[/img]
And here you are the URL in case the direct link doesn't work: http://www.asmodee.com/produits/730/blln42-175.jpg
#72
Mathijs
-
- Network Leaders
-
- 13,758 posts
Post-modern Shaman
- Projects:Age of the Ring
- Division:Revora
- Job:Leader
Posted 29 August 2006 - 05:53 PM
That's not in line with Tolkien I'm afraid, and not with Weta either. No.
No fuel left for the pilgrims
#73
Guest_Guest_*
Guest_Guest_*
-
- Guests
Posted 30 August 2006 - 04:18 AM
That's not in line with Tolkien I'm afraid, and not with Weta either. No.
Let's see LotR quote about Haradrim armor:
His scarlet robes were tattered, his corslet of overlapping brazen plates was rent and hewn, his black plaits of hair braided with gold were dreched with blood
So this loriga segmetanta Roman armor is a possible interpretation of Tolkien's Haradrim armor description (excepting for the color), although I agree it's not WETA at all.
#74
alfreak1
-
- Members
-
- 105 posts
Posted 30 August 2006 - 07:44 PM
I love it how people don't sign in before they basically say "Up yours!"
The Haradrim are final. Get used to it.
The Haradrim are final. Get used to it.
#75
Mathijs
-
- Network Leaders
-
- 13,758 posts
Post-modern Shaman
- Projects:Age of the Ring
- Division:Revora
- Job:Leader
Posted 30 August 2006 - 08:52 PM
Brazen plates. Do you know what brass is? Copper and zinc. It is not iron nor does it look like iron. Tolkien said the Haradrim rarely wore iron or steel equipment. It would appear the picture you showed us wasn't so Tolkien-correct after all, since it cleary shows iron or steel armor.
No fuel left for the pilgrims
#76
Guest_Guest_*
Guest_Guest_*
-
- Guests
Posted 30 August 2006 - 09:09 PM
I love it how people don't sign in before they basically say "Up yours!"
The Haradrim are final. Get used to it.
I think if I give a nickname unknown to you is the same as giving none, so I didn't sing in.
I can live with WETA's Haradrim and you have made some very nice additions. I just was talking about Tolkien's armors as they are describing in his books, but please don't get me wrong. No offense or disrespect intended at all.
Brazen plates. Do you know what brass is? Copper and zinc. It is not iron nor does it look like iron. Tolkien said the Haradrim rarely wore iron or steel equipment. It would appear the picture you showed us wasn't so Tolkien-correct after all, since it cleary shows iron or steel armor.
So I said: "it is a possible interpretation of Tolkien's Haradrim armor description (excepting for the color)", meaning quite obviously that the armor in the picture depicts a valid shape following Tolkien's description, although it does not show the color of the correct material.
#77
Orc Master
-
- New Members
-
- 40 posts
Posted 30 August 2006 - 10:31 PM
Well, frankly, we preffer our interpretation and WETA's. Let's just say we didn't include the guys in brazen plates, but the stealthy cool ones with the WETA-like robes 
Edited by Orc Master, 30 August 2006 - 10:32 PM.
#78
Guest_Guest_*
Guest_Guest_*
-
- Guests
Posted 31 August 2006 - 03:00 AM
Well, frankly, we preffer our interpretation and WETA's. Let's just say we didn't include the guys in brazen plates, but the stealthy cool ones with the WETA-like robes
Since you are making all the hard the work to give us a really quite good mod, IMHO you have absolute rights to do such changes. I was only pointing to some minor details, but with utterly respect for all you have done.
#79
Orc Master
-
- New Members
-
- 40 posts
Posted 01 September 2006 - 12:20 AM
*sigh* Isn't it nice when everybody end winning?
Well, thanks for the suggestions. And don't worry, we're trying to keep even the smallest details in mind
Well, thanks for the suggestions. And don't worry, we're trying to keep even the smallest details in mind
#80
Guest_Guest_*
Guest_Guest_*
-
- Guests
Posted 01 September 2006 - 03:50 PM
*sigh* Isn't it nice when everybody end winning?
Well, thanks for the suggestions. And don't worry, we're trying to keep even the smallest details in mind
It's my pleasure!
I have some more suggestions, this time more in line with WETA. Have you seen the upcoming Isengard Trolls by Games Workshop? I think they could be a nice addition (no direct link available, sorry):
http://uk.games-work...lordoftherings/ (second and specially last miniatures)
1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users
