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Evil Side ideas (and brainstorming)


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#21 zimoo

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Posted 20 December 2006 - 08:15 PM

Although I hate to say this, I would prefer if Gothmog had something to do with siege, simply to make him stand out a bit more.
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#22 Lauri

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 10:26 AM

he has something with siege to do <:)
but he can't go all siege either... that would be boring :ninja: but still, I don't really like his summon warg riders thingy....

and, mumaks ARE siege :p

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#23 zimoo

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 09:03 PM

Na, I classify Mumaks as insanely overpowered hero killers <^_^

Warg rider summon just doesn't make sense. If you're going by the books, then have it be some evil men horseman unit. If you're going by the films (which you obviously are), then siege/orcs/grond would be suitable.
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#24 Lauri

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 11:46 PM

don't even know were this mod is now <^_^ Hotlickers obvious gone again, GtO is never in, not is he in the mod, and I longer have no intress for this mod, nor time....

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#25 zimoo

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Posted 22 December 2006 - 11:34 AM

I'd like to help out with this mod, as I've been interested in it since day 1.

I can code, model and skin (although my skinning = t3h suckage).
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#26 Hebblewhite

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Posted 22 December 2006 - 06:13 PM

It would be a BIG shame if this mod isn't finished... I'm sure mr. Hotlicker will be back soon enough (before we jump to any rash conclusions!).

Anyhow, there are enough people around who would probably be willing to carry on... (including myself).




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#27 Guest_Which King of Angmar?_*

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 02:33 AM

Please understand I am a mordor fanatic so understand my ideas may come across some people as OP

The Witch-King is supposed to be a very powerful sorcerer so I believe He deserves the following powers:

Angmar Sorcery- A black Wizard blast with his hand

Toggle Mace and Sword- Self explanatory

Morgul Blade- single powerful attack (you already have this)

Morgul Sorcery- some kind of red lightning sword but with his hand

This is my Hour- attacks normal soldiers too but has smaller radius and does less damage to heroes

Mount Fellbeast- self explanatory

Again I state this is my opinion of the witch-king's powers for multiple reasons

1. He was a sorcerer during his reign of Angmar too, and I don't think he'd forget his own magic would he?

2. He gained some more power as the ring drew closer to Sauron, too, so maybe he would have some new magic also.

3. Sure he had black breath but I (as in my opinion) think he deserves some actual "fighting" magic.

4. I replaced his leadership because sure he was powerful but I don't think orcs are going to feel that much better after all, they are very weak and kind of look down on men.

I don't mean to offend anyone or to make him too powerful I just think he has been made too weak in bfme, bfmeII, and ROTWK. And I really like your "Shadows of Evil" mod. But he still just isn't as powerful a hero as mordor probably needs. And I am not saying make him the most powerful guy in the game, but mordor needs a strong magic hero, and if you like any of my ideas but feel he's too powerful buff the other leaders of gondor, rohan, and isengard.

And if I may also add an idea ( I am not trying to impose at all just trying to help.) that all factions have siege ladders and Isengard ballista can switch into bringing more powerful ladders into play. I say this because if You are adding Minas morgul Walls to Mordor, or just as any map Gondor and rohan will need some way to get on the walls. Or maybe you could be able to place soldiers on the ents (like merry and pippin from the movie and haradrim on oliphants in the movies and games), so you can make ents latch onto a wall and deploy soldiers onto them. If you wanted to add some sort of siege tower to Gondor that would be sweet! but since you already have the battering ram I would understand if you chose not to. Sorry if this belongs in the "good faction" of brainstorming but I just want to let out ideas.

I also think you should add Ciroth ungul Uruks to mordor as some sort of mini-hero horde like the Citidel guards for gondor except weaker then them, stronger than normal gondor soldiers, 5 to a hoard, max of 4 hoards

I am sure 1 of you has played bfme2, so if you remember when the witch-king captures and outpost he puts his sword in the air somewhat like he does in the movies, my suggestion here is (if u can and feel like it) put that base for the fire sword power.

I also have 5 questions:

1. are you using minas morgul as a map or just as mordors walls?

2. what on earth is the tower of minas morgul doing? is it a power (from what I have read it is) or is it just doing it for fun? if it is a power what is it?

3. Is khamul the easterling becoming an infantry hero instead of an anti-cavalry hero? (btw like the rhun swordsman skins :p )

4. is minas morgul a different faction than mordor, are the normal orcs and the minas morgul orcs going to be in the same faction with one being stronger?

5. are the citidel guards going to have a command point? Because, no offense, but that would be kind of dumb :p . Why? You only get 4 altogether so they are pretty much just weak heroes that could lead your armies into battle.

Please remember and understand this is my opinion and I just want to let out my opinion. I am not saying you have to use this or the mod will be a dud. I am just saying I think it would be cool. So please don't misunderstand anything I have said, I think your mods are awesome, this thread asked for "evil" ideas :p and I gave you some

#28 Lauri

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 12:54 PM

And if I may also add an idea ( I am not trying to impose at all just trying to help.) that all factions have siege ladders and Isengard ballista can switch into bringing more powerful ladders into play. I say this because if You are adding Minas morgul Walls to Mordor, or just as any map Gondor and rohan will need some way to get on the walls. Or maybe you could be able to place soldiers on the ents (like merry and pippin from the movie and haradrim on oliphants in the movies and games), so you can make ents latch onto a wall and deploy soldiers onto them. If you wanted to add some sort of siege tower to Gondor that would be sweet! but since you already have the battering ram I would understand if you chose not to. Sorry if this belongs in the "good faction" of brainstorming but I just want to let out ideas.

When Rohan has ents to smash the walls, and Gondor has the Trebuchet (and a ram?) they can just break the castle, no need to board it :) besides, the haradrim on mumakils can't go from the mumak to a wall ;)

I also think you should add Ciroth ungul Uruks to mordor as some sort of mini-hero horde like the Citidel guards for gondor except weaker then them, stronger than normal gondor soldiers, 5 to a hoard, max of 4 hoards

there is Black uruk's of mordor, or cirith ungol more precies I belive... no mini-hero-horde though, as that sucks ;)

I am sure 1 of you has played bfme2, so if you remember when the witch-king captures and outpost he puts his sword in the air somewhat like he does in the movies, my suggestion here is (if u can and feel like it) put that base for the fire sword power.

I didn't pay much attention on how his hand went after he captured a building.....

I also have 5 questions:
1. are you using minas morgul as a map or just as mordors walls?

both

2. what on earth is the tower of minas morgul doing? is it a power (from what I have read it is) or is it just doing it for fun? if it is a power what is it?

if you've read it's a power, don't you belive it's a power? anyways, it's giving the units (aka, non-heroes) some experience, like the orcs go straigh to level 5 is I remeber correctly...

3. Is khamul the easterling becoming an infantry hero instead of an anti-cavalry hero? (btw like the rhun swordsman skins :p )

he's already an infantry :lol:

4. is minas morgul a different faction than mordor, are the normal orcs and the minas morgul orcs going to be in the same faction with one being stronger?

Minas Morgul is Mordor.... after you purchace a specific spell at the tier 3, you can purchase Minas Morgul stuff ;)

5. are the citidel guards going to have a command point? Because, no offense, but that would be kind of dumb :p . Why? You only get 4 altogether so they are pretty much just weak heroes that could lead your armies into battle.

uhm, their going to be a max on this? :p and no, it wouln't be dumb at all... After all, they ain't heroes ;)

Please remember and understand this is my opinion and I just want to let out my opinion. I am not saying you have to use this or the mod will be a dud. I am just saying I think it would be cool. So please don't misunderstand anything I have said, I think your mods are awesome, this thread asked for "evil" ideas :p and I gave you some

well, this tread is acctually dead, but who cares? ^_^

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#29 GothmogtheOrc

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 07:31 PM

lol, Lauri has answered pretty much all your questions it seems, so I'll just touch one or two points:

For the siege, the assumption is that rohan and gondor will use their summon ents and eagles powers when sieging an enemy castle (just like they do now if there is a good vs good game)... however Gondor also has the battering ram and trebuchet as you mentioned. If I am able to make new versions of the siege ladder for rohan and gondor then I will certainly add them. I think a siege tower would be very cool for gondor to build, but I don't know of any creature that gondor has that could replace the troll so it probably won't happen.

I also think you should add Ciroth ungul Uruks to mordor as some sort of mini-hero horde like the Citidel guards for gondor except weaker then them, stronger than normal gondor soldiers, 5 to a hoard, max of 4 hoards


thats almost exactly what I'm doing :blink: they won't be mini-heroes, but they will be stronger then normal troops. I haven't decided how many units will be in a horde but there will be a max of about 4 hordes. My thinking for them is that they will essentually be special forces... you use them where you need a small number of troops that can protect or take an outpost or chokepoint.

The morgul tower's power is basically the same as Theoden's "kings favor", Faramir and Boromir's "Captain of Gondor", and Saruman's "Speech Craft"... only it gives much more experience. Enough to raise trolls up one level and troops up several levels. The strategy being, once you have a full castle of troops you use the spell, making them much stronger and then you go out and fight that huge battle or siege the castle. The recharge timer though will be so long that you'll probably only use it once or twice a game.

I've already planned out some new powers for the WitchKing that will hopefully accomplish the same idea as what you suggested :) he's one of my favorite heroes and I'm definately going to see him made powerfull.

You raised a very good point about the citadel guards and their commandpoint limit... I hadn't thought of that. If they do have a CP cost it will be small, between one and three probably.

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#30 Lif-alan

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 04:46 PM

how about a power about the gorgi from dunland that saruman sends out to spy on the fellowship. i know its in lotrbfme2 but i like the idea. Maybe they could just move but not attack or be attacked. i know nothing of your mod so you might already have it. they could be a timed power

P.S. im not shure their called the gorgi so forgive me if im wrong
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#31 zimoo

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 04:57 PM

They're called crebain, and yes Gothmog has already included them :huh:
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#32 Guest_Which King of Angmar?_*

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 01:46 AM

I am sorry I took so long to reply but I have been really busy. I am sincerely sorry, when I mentioned

haradrim and mumakil I meant that rohan soldiers would be able to get on top of the ents and ride them like

merry and pippin do in the movies and then u could tell them to attach to a wall like a siege tower and they

could jump off similar to how the berserkers do off ladders (sorry but the inability to board walls is one of

the few things I disliked on good vs. good battles, but I think I understand what you mean Lauri) For the

things to propel the siege tower for gondor if you want to have one for them you could probably use those

dwarven cow/pig things that draw their chariot in bfmeII since they're not in bfme. I am sorry about the

black uruk misconception I must have thought I was looking at a different mod and I had just seen them

after my post. But to clear up the mini-hero horde thing I was kinda quoting what is on Gothmog's website

about the citidel guards (again sorry). As for his sword animation Yeah would be a pretty good animation

and would go along with his fire sword. Thank you for clearing up the minas morgul issue. About the

khamul thing I thought he was an anti-cavalry hero, Is he getting a sword this time around or still

using that spear? BTW thanks for the support on the witch-king's powers gothmog, anything in that direction

is an improvement :) , He is by far my favorite hero, so thanks again. I know it would be tricky but if

you could get rohan some kind of paliside ladder and gondor some kind of ladder that would be great (I'm

sorry if this is intrusive or anything because I am not trying to). So please forgive me I just wanted to clear

up these misunderstandings.

#33 GothmogtheOrc

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 03:07 AM

For Khamul, I haven't decided for sure which weapon he will use; sword is rather generic but makes sense while pike is unique but odd for a hero to use. I've been toying with the idea of him having a toggle spear/sword... would be very cool and unique, but I'd have to come up with some advantages and disadvantages so that there would be a reason to change between the two. Maybe something like different types of attack or damage. And if I mess with the model I'll probably edit the skin too to make him look cooler or something. I don't know how or what I'd edit since I really like Rhun as they are.

Rohirrim will not climb/mount ents, and the beasts won't be used for the gondor siege tower... neither idea makes sense for their faction plus they'd be hard to do. I'll try to give both rohan and gondor a siege ladder if I can.

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#34 Guest_Which King of Angmar?_*

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 03:49 AM

Thanks for the info, if you give Khamul a toggle maybe something like this:
spear: double damage vs. cavalry
sword: faster attack speed
I dont know it's just an idea

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 03:52 AM

Sorry one last question (4 now): Is 800 the highest for evil and 400 highest for good?

#36 adummy

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 05:02 AM

Sorry one last question (4 now): Is 800 the highest for evil and 400 highest for good?

yes
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#37 Elvenlord

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 09:49 PM

Another idea for spear/sword toggle
The sword does low damage, but has a small AoE.
Spear does higher damage, but would only hit one.
So sword is good vs. troops, spear vs. heros and strong units.

Edited by Elvenlord, 20 April 2007 - 09:52 PM.

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#38 GothmogtheOrc

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 01:52 AM

Those are good ideas, I'll probably use them when I work on him. Thanks :)

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#39 Uruk King

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 08:56 PM

Hi Gothmog, I've been looking at this mod and it's impressed me on a large sclae. I have a few suggestions, why not make the uruk Crossbowmen an elite archer group, and have something like orc bowmen as basic archers, but the main thing on my mind was that the number of knight batallions is increased to 3, because the only form of true cavalry mordor gets are the Warg riders, and three of them can be summoned by Gothmog. I can live with three knight batallions, but two? I'm not sure. But apart from those suggstions, keep up the good work! :evgr:
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#40 GothmogtheOrc

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 12:58 AM

Thanks for the imput. I had decided on 2 battalions of knights because I figured 3 upgraded battalions would be enough to do the gandalf/knight tactic... can't remember the exact name... but where the player focuses only on knights and gandalf; a strategy that makes no sense for Gondor. But if during balancing it seems Gondor needs more knights I will increase that number.

You bring up a good point about gothmog summoning more cavalry then the gondor player can have :lol: oops. That will probably have to be changed... also Khamul is going to get something of a make-over and one of his new powers will be to summon mounted easterlings (no name for them yet :sad2:). So Mordor's 2 true cavalry units will be summoned and I think they will both have timers to make it more fair.

Remember though that both Mordor and Gondor were specifically mentioned as having almost no cavalry... so they ( the cavalry) will not factor into the factions as anything more then a nice addition to your infantry army. Rohan obviously will be almost all cavalry, and isengard will have something like a 60-40 or 70-30 ratio of infantry to cavalry ideally.

Much of this will be balanced during testing, right now I'm just throwing out my ideas/plans and getting stuff in-game. Refining and testing is the next (or 2nd next) big step.

I like the uruk crossbowmen as they are... they won't be an elite unit. And if there was a elite archer unit it would probably be a regular bowman. But as I don't want to do that, it probably won't happen.

Thanks again for your opinion :unsure: I do appriciate and value them.

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