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#21 sdunnyw506

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 02:08 PM

hey lotr fan,


about the tower guard thing robnkarla was planning on replacing the 2nd tier one with a regular gondor soldier with a spear (a cheaper earlier game spearmen). hea had it on his hardrive, which unfortunately crashed

he is still planning to do it though, and he said alll he has to do is the coding.

#22 Devon

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 06:42 PM

hey lotrfan

gandalf will be upgraded with a power similar to bfme1 that also upgrades aragorn boromir and faramir.

as for trebuchets, yes, they can shoot over over walls. so can any other sieg weapon, would it make sense if they had to go inside before they could shoot the buildings inside? Thats why you have archers on top of walls if you're good, and if you're evil you either dont have walls anyway, or you open your gate and send out an army to kill the trebs.

i think the cp is fine, you usually dont even get up that high in a game.

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#23 sdunnyw506

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 07:05 PM

about the bug with the cp during fortress maps, i think it is actually caused by the heroes increasing the cp. Regularly, the resource structures increase the cp a little till it is the fortress max (like MT is 1000)

i bet the heroes increasing the cp bugs out the default cp mode with the fortresses


because i built a couple heroes there

#24 sdunnyw506

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 07:19 PM

also what about adding citadel guards?

well from what i understand of the gondorian military, the guards of the fountain and the tree (the soldiers with the cloth over their face, the long spears, and the unique large mithril wings from their helmets) were the best in gondor and only stationed at minas tirith at that level

while the real citadel/tower guards were the ones you see in return of the king following aragorn after his coronation and denethor during his reign. they guarded leaders and the citadel of minas tirith itself. They had black capes and helmets with another set of wings on them, but were kind of a cross between the regular helmets and the fountain guard helmets. These citadel guards were equally good with sword, spear, and bow.

How bout the dunedain rangers are replaced by the citadel guards?

both are equal in bow and sword ability. Plus, I think you could put the dunedain rangers with arnor, where they naturally fit. But the unit gap is filled with the citadel guards.

I guess the best place to see pics of what i mean is in the movies or in other mods like Rhovanion alliance or the battle for gondor


so, i am suggesting that a citadel guard unit be created to replace the dunedain rangers (while they are moved to arnor). Also. the barracks would stay the same - gondor infantry, gondor spearmen, and now (renamed) gondor fountain guards

thanks and keep up the good work. I wont be here much longer but your mod is very fun!


and actually, why dont you try and contact stealthsnake or his replacement from the stopped mod Battles for gondor?

they have a bunch of really good skins and models (particularly gondorian, which is why i post this here)

maybe they would let you borrow some?




just a thought

#25 robnkarla

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 08:01 PM

sdunnyw506 - I'll be said to see you go. You're welcome anytime to test. I'd like to have people stay around longer, but I see this as a come and go. Some will play and test in this release and may be back in a month, other maybe the next and then pause, and some will be here to whole time. Which is why I like a large beta group.

For Gondor:

I like the idea of replacing the dunedain rangers with the citadel guards. I already have a model that I've been looking at to add. The dunedain rangers then will be moved to Arnor in the future once I try to finalize Arnor. They will also be available in the summon power which is being moved around to also include elledan and elrohir. so hopfully I can finalize Gondor pretty soon.

And yes, those are the fountain guards, and they are meant to be the elite pikemen. For the citadel guards they will be strong swordsmen, but the soldiers will be better against structures and certain types. My goal for the them? I want rangers to be the top archers with very little health/trampled easily, gondor archers to be early game archers and late game specialized use, while the citadel guards can do both, but I want all the units to have their specific use.

So the units for Gondor:

Barracks:
Gondor Pikemen
Gondor Soldiers
Fountain Guards

Archery Range:
Gondor Archers
Ithilien Rangers
Citadel Guards

Stables:
Gondor Knights
Knights of Dol Amroth

Siege:
Trebuchets

Heroes:
Pippin
Damrod
Boromir
Faramir
Imrahil
Aragorn
Gandalf

As for BoG, I've talked with Tom and I've used some BoG items, I've been going through all of the models available and trying to figure out what best suits the mod. (I have a LOT of ideas for the inns :xd: )

lotrfan -

1) As mentioned - In a very soon release you will be able to upgrade Gandalf and the other units through a power like BFME1 instead of leveling.

2) The goblin cave has been fixed for 1.05.02

3) This was brought over from BFME2 - please if you can provide more information why it should change

4) I will need to fix this as I can. The gates and all the walls are going to be examined very closely and balanced for all factions.

5) The switching commandset will be removed outside of the campaign. They were meant for the campaign, but I just had them in for testing. I just have not gotten around to removing them

6) I'm looking into this, I might need to adjust the geometry around the elevators to prevent this.

7) Are you loading and saving games from previous patches/releases? There are always problems loading saved games across ini changes as new options are available and others removed.

8) I'll check to make sure they can scale walls like BFME1

others:
1) Tower guards are being removed and all adjusted - see above.

2) I'm not sure this is possible. When I get a chance I'll post the question in the main forum. I just have not had the time to post and watch.

3) That I'll take a poll on. I know some friends of mine really like the 2+, and were mad when EA removed the multiple options for the elves. What I might do is not allow combo-hordes to garrison, or try to make them count as 2

4) That I can remove. I agree, in the BFME1 style maps this should not be an option.

5) I want to remove this as well, I just have not gotten around to looking for the code.

6) That I will see. I personally like the large armies, but maybe I'll take a poll or everyone can respond to army size.

7) I'll check the gondor siege range to make sure it is in-line. Gondor has always had the benefit of being able to attack over walls. I believe others like Isengard could not. I'm about 1/2 there for fixing the game win design. I'd like to try to get it closer to BFME1 where the fortress stays untill all buildings are destroyed. This will have to be done with heavy map scriptings, so I'll see what I can do.

Thank you all for the posts. I'm trying to improve the game greatly with each release, and the mod is getting there.

Robert J.

Edited by robnkarla, 13 July 2007 - 07:52 PM.


#26 sdunnyw506

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 08:43 PM

thanks a bunch yeah ill try and get back as soon as i can, but see im leaving in less than eight days to be go to the United States MIlitary Academy Prep School for a year in New Jersey than to THe regular USMA in West Point New York for 4 years. of course there will be breaks, but while im there its pretty much balls to the wall.

so yeah, the next couple years will be busy!

and about the bug with minas tirith ive posted about three times (sorry), that the bug is odd. I think either after you build a farm or two minutes into the game or after your second hero (not sure which) the bug occurs. The CP actually decreases! in the skirmish game when im in Minas tirith it goes down about 50 points or so every 30 seconds. (1000-850-775-700...0 or actually a blank area)

not sure what it is, but u probably have some sort of experience with this.

thanks a bunch!

#27 Devon

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 05:49 PM

Heroes:
Pippin
Damrod
Boromir
Faramir
Imrahil
Aragorn
Damrod



isnt gandalf supposed to be in there? and damrod twice?

Edited by YodaWarrior, 13 July 2007 - 05:49 PM.

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#28 robnkarla

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 08:01 PM

Oh, did I forget to mention I removed Gandalf from the game? Opps, jk fixed.

All right, I'm reworking Gondor's powers, and I'm looking for ideas of what people think of the changes and what you think it should be:

5pp:
Heal
Rallycall
ElvenWood (This has been added to Rohan so I'd like to do a different power here, or maybe some other effect for 50% Armor Power, or some power that is Anti-Structure equivelant to chill wind)

10pp:
Rebuild (Removed Tom Bombadil - 200 radius, 300 heal variety)
Hobbit Allies (4 battalions of hobbits, no heroes)
Lone Tower
Arrow Volley

15pp
Cloud Break
Summon Rohirrim
Heroes of Gondor (Grants Gandalf the White, Aragorn's Anduril, Faramir & Boromir gain Armor bonuses, and Pippin gains a health increase)

25pp
Army of the Dead
Grey Company (Summons level 10 Elrohir and Elledan & some battalions of Dunedain Rangers. If I come across is I would also like to include a Halbarad as well)

The biggest issue I see is the lack of damage to structures and 2 summon units as 25pp power. Any suggestions? I did not want to make Heroes of Gondor a 25 and it is a little powerful for a 10.

So let me hear you!

#29 Devon

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 08:26 PM

well, it depends how big the bonuses are for heroes of gondor. What I would do is keep it a second tier, like gtw and anduril were, but increase the cost, maybe to 12 or 14 or something? you could even make it 15, but i think it deserves to be a second tier power. idk about building damaging powers though

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#30 robnkarla

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 08:32 PM

That's not bad. I keep forgetting that all 1st tier powers do not have to 5pp, 2nd tier 10, etc. What I'd do - remove arrow volley or hobbits, add the heroes of gondor, and then come up with something that could be used as a 15pp power similar to the damage of Bombard.

#31 Xingdao Fan

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 08:56 AM

Can't you resume the original Rebuild and make the Elven Wood a 10pp power? Same for Rohan with another of his powers.

Because Elves have the Elven Wood as a 10pp power, it's unfair that Men can get it as a 5pp power while Elves have to wait until 10 power points.

Heroes of Gondor should cost 15, or 12, or something. But 10 looks too few.

I think you should remove Hobbits. Arrow Volley fits Gondor better, and they already have the help of a hobbit; Pippin.


EDIT: Additionally, the Ithilien Rangers' attack animation is strange. They shot twice but only fire one arrow.

Edited by Xingdao Fan, 20 July 2007 - 09:04 AM.

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#32 Devon

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 05:12 PM

maybe elven wood is bigger and more bonusful for elves?

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#33 robnkarla

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 05:28 PM

Well, for Heroes of Gondor it is a 2nd tier power that for now costs 12 but I might raise it to 14.

As for Rebuild and Elvenwood. My thinking behind Rebuild is that it is a really powerful tool that when added to Men at 5pp was a little too strong for them, but just moving it to the 2nd tier made it too weak. (I'm going off of BFME2 1.06 where rebuild was removed/changed and elvenwood added.) So I thought I'd restore it closer to where it was in the oringal BFME2 and RotWK with the larger radius and place it as a 10pp power. I think Dwarves should have it cheaper and men later to also fit their factions lore a little better. Dwarves should be better in my opinion in structures at the time of WotR.

As for Elvenwood, this was more of a gameplay issue. Elvenwood gives 50% armor, which imo is the best leadership in the game. As I'm trying to evolve Elves into a tougher stronger race with one of the highest attack per unit, giving them a 50% armor right from the beginning can be a little overpowered. It would be difficult to counter their early rush if one is done. For Rohan (and Men), they have weaker overall basic units and I think they benefit more for the 50% armor. However, I think Rohan should have it for their lower level power to help them out in this aspect. For Men, I would rather come up with a different power altogether for their early 5pp power, but I've yet to decide on one.

Lastly, Heroes of Gondor did replace Hobbits not Arrow Volley and I'll look into the Ranger's attack. They are now longer buildable by Gondor, but they will be summonable and for Arnor so I want to make sure they are fixed. Thank you!!


Maybe I'm off my rocker, but that is kinda the logic I used.

(Oh, forgot to mention that the whole invisibility thing and regeneration thing for the elves is a benefit too that Men and Rohan do not have)

Edited by robnkarla, 20 July 2007 - 05:29 PM.


#34 Allathar

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 05:57 PM

A bug:

While playing a BfME1 map (so with the bases) I ordered my gondor soldiers to go up the wall, and at the same time they climbed it I clicked shield formation. The units are gonna act very weird after that.
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#35 Devon

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 06:04 PM

rob, did you mean rangers or hobbits are now longer buildable by gondor and arnor?

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#36 robnkarla

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 06:09 PM

I meant the Dunedain Rangers (the ones that you purchase at level 3 archery range). They are no longer buildable from the archery range as they were replaced by the Citadel Guards. The rangers will eventually be making their way to Arnor.

The hobbit power is no longer on Gondor, but they like Rohan, Elves, & Dwarves can still build Hobbits from the inn.

#37 Devon

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 06:13 PM

oh ok :sad:

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#38 Dalf32

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 07:17 PM

i just had an idea 4 a Gondor power, but idk wer it wuld go. a power called Leadership of the King or sumthin lik that and make it similar 2 heroic charge in effect, except 4 all units. or mayb it culd triple damage/armor 4 a short period.
i was just thinkin bout the battle in front of the black gate and the whole speech that Aragorn makes. :sad:

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#39 The Best Guest

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 07:19 PM

Yeah make it a 15pp with a 3 min recharge possibly
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#40 robnkarla

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 07:35 PM

That could be a possibility of something I could use (I'm removing earthquake and adding the grey company, and there is a 15pp slot open) One thing I'm worried about is Men's capability for siege equal to other factions so I was thinking more about a siege power, but this could easily work.

Robert J.




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