1257 replies to this topic

[LadyRhiea]

How about the book itself?

When you claim they're the elite cavalry of MIDDLE EARTH and always in the thickest of fighting, I can't be really convinced without actually seeing a quote from Tolkien himself. I imagine the horse riders from Rohan might know a thing or two more than the small fiefdom of Gondor. If anything, THEY'D be the Elite Cavalry of Middle Earth.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Dol_Amroth <- nothing praising their cavalry. It only states that Imrahil brought the largest company of reinforcements from the Southern Fiefdoms to Gondor's aid. But you know, who cares? It's Wikipedia we can't trust it.

http://www.glyphweb..../dolamroth.html <- Ok it only talks about Galador

http://www.tuckborou...et/imrahil.html <- Doesn't really praise his elite cavalry either, just says, 700 knights and men at arms. But maybe i'm looking at the wrong web?
http://www.tuckborou...html#Dol_Amroth <- Oh I found it! They're well known HARPISTS! But nothing about their exceptional knights, except they rode to Minas Tirith. W00t And they fought in the front lines in Morranon.

http://tolkiengatewa...wiki/Dol_Amroth <- Same deal with the rest.

Also, funny side note. When you type Dol Amroth Elite in google, the first thing you get is Rhovanion Alliance. Add a knight to get it and you get a bunch of BFME and Warhammer websites. Just saying.

Since you're pretty sure it's in the book, it'd probably be better you look for the direct quote and page number for me since I spent enough time reading through each of these sites about three times. I'm fully aware that there's a 99% chance I can be wrong because I'm not refering to the book right now but wiki's about the book.

Edited by LadyRhiea, 22 September 2008 - 08:35 AM.

[Fyro11]

http://www.tuckborou...html#Dol_Amroth <- Oh I found it! They're well known HARPISTS!

Rofl.

It would be good to obtain some quotes.

As for the Ithilien Rangers, then if it hasn't been said, basically the rangers are getting their very own hideout, which will be buildable anywhere on the map. Hopefully even in the RJ maps. It's taken from the Forbidden Pool. Here was Rob's illustration (page 15):

[LadyRhiea]

The third shot's really cool.

[rjorrin28]

Nice, I like rangers getting their own building
the last shot is...

[mike_]

Considering that they singlehandedly crumpled the Mordor vanguard on the Pelennor Fields, alone of the defenders stood firm in the Siege of Minas Tirith, were given command of the Left Wing of the Northern Army of Gondor in the Third Battle of Dagorlad, and held the Corsairs of Umbar in check for most of the Third Age, all by their lonesome, I think they're fine where they are.

And please please please please please please please please please please don't waste your talent on the Gee-Dub concept, Rhiea.

[Elvenlord]

For this whole debate, I would like to quote zimoo here. Don't remember where he said it, but...

Personally, I'd take a rider from Gondor over Rohan any day

Now, he just said a rider, and we all know Dol Amroth>any other cav in gondor. Therefore, Dol Amroth>Riders of Rohan
Give me a little bit, I'll find where he said it.

..........and yes, I'm back....

[Lauri]

Kinda like how you can have an army of Fountain Guards right?

I can't have an army of Fountain Guards...
And if you are referring to my mod, then there's a good reason that you can recruit them at all, and they are limited to 4 hordes
If it weren't for the made-up fact that Minas Tirith was sacked by Rhûn, then I wouldn't have made them recruit-able at all

and about zimoo's quote..
He was talking about how they were more armored, and thus better at charging down the enemy, and have better chance of surviving in the field The men of Rohan just had faster horses, but Gondor doesn't really need that... They need uber horse That's why zimoo, and myself, would have picked a fine selection of Gondor cavalry over Rohan
And, since the Knights of Dol Amroth are described as having armor all over them self, I'm pretty sure they would be the best cavalry force available to Gondor I'd bet they are better than most Rohirrim, and probably matched the Royal Guards

[Pasidon]

You can't go wrong with a hoard of overderessed knights. With all that armor, you wouldn't think they would be able to go that fast on those horses...

[LadyRhiea]

Kinda like how you can have an army of Fountain Guards right?

I can't have an army of Fountain Guards...
And if you are referring to my mod, then there's a good reason that you can recruit them at all, and they are limited to 4 hordes
If it weren't for the made-up fact that Minas Tirith was sacked by Rhûn, then I wouldn't have made them recruit-able at all

and about zimoo's quote..
He was talking about how they were more armored, and thus better at charging down the enemy, and have better chance of surviving in the field The men of Rohan just had faster horses, but Gondor doesn't really need that... They need uber horse That's why zimoo, and myself, would have picked a fine selection of Gondor cavalry over Rohan
And, since the Knights of Dol Amroth are described as having armor all over them self, I'm pretty sure they would be the best cavalry force available to Gondor I'd bet they are better than most Rohirrim, and probably matched the Royal Guards

I wasn't referring to your mod because I haven't played it yet >.>. I was just saying, the argument of how citadel guards stay in the citadel doesn't work when you have Fountain Guards running around the battlefield. I guess they're out on the frontlines to make sure the orcs won't fuel anymore smoke to cause global warming to affect the white tree they protect?

I'm also glad that you explained the whole Zimoo quote thing because I was just about to say, did I miss the whole phase when we take other members quotes as canonical information? The whole point in the quote itself doesn't really convert my stance on the Dol Amroth Knights being the best, but _Mike's does prove a stronger point, even though I couldn't find that info online (meaning probably it's time I went to a library >.>). By the way, leather counts as armor too, so simply describing that they have armor all over themselves doesn't immediately mean that, Knights of Dol Amroth have heavy plate mail that is invulnerable.

I just feel that the Knights of Dol Amroth are overhyped, and RJ is following a trend set by possibly false ideas.

Edited by LadyRhiea, 24 September 2008 - 01:43 PM.

[Lauri]

Most, if not all, who've read the part with them in the books have the impression that they are the toughest cavalry in hands of Gondor
And yes, I meant full of metal armor IIRC, it's plate armor as well
And if I also remember correct, normal soldiers of Minas Tirith didn't wear any plate armor at all, so there is another reason to believe that KoDA would be generally better than Knights of Minas Tirith I don't believe they would OWN the Knights of Minas Tirith, but still better

And I don't see how you can drag Citadel Guards and Fountain Guards in this discussion.. This is a Knights of DA vs. MT discussion, so there's no point in dragging in other things
I, for one, would have kept the Fountain Guards out of a mod, unless there's a good story behind having them... I would have allowed Citadel Guards though... They serve other purposes than Fountain Guards imo, and are, after all, ex-rangers\rangers

[LadyRhiea]

If you read the original post I made, I was suggesting that we replace that unit's model with a Mounted Citadel Guard and move it to the inn. Then the idea was challenged because they're citadel guards, meaning that they're supposed to stay in the citadel, where I was replying with the idea that their role as guardians are parallel to Fountain Guards, but we still see them no?

[mike_]

If you're interested in my sources, then I suggest the "Return of the King" and, more importantly, "Unfinished Tales"

[Lauri]

Ah, yeah...
Forgot that it was about mounted Citadel Guards...

I still believe the KoDA would be better to use
Guards are, after all, most in use as their name suggest, meaning, they guards things..
Mounted Citadel Guards I don't think would fit at all
There's no mention of them having horses as far as I can remember...

I know, not everything needs a line in Tolkien's work to be able to be put in a mod, but my point is that I believe the KoDA to be better than the Citadel Guards...
At least when it comes to fitting as uber cavalry of Gondor They don't have to be stronger or more armored than citadel guards, but I do not believe there is enough Citadel Guards to make some of them into cavalry forces

[{IP} Aridor]

The knights f Dol-Amroth were also part elven blood. On top of being Dunidain.

[Fyro11]

Were they part Númenorian? Wait, technically the Dúnedain were descendants of the Númenorians, right? So that'd mean they were?

[Vithar-133]

Yeah, Dunedain are the Numenoreans who fled Numenor for middle earth upon the sinking of said island.

[Fyro11]

Part Elven and part Númenorian- wow. Next best thing to Elves.

[mike_]

Well, tbh, that's debatable as to whether or not they would better than Elves...

[{IP} Aridor]

Though the would better than your Rohan man who was only a man of the twilight.

[Lauri]

But that's not part of the discussion
It's about KoDA vs. Citadel Guards

I've already voiced my opinion