1120 replies to this topic

[Myrdin]

i too like dojobs idea, and i too dont like that cata emplacement. but for the other ideas i like them much-makes me remember Maelstorm ( you could even change terrain, build lots of shit, that would slow donw enemie, etc etc ) and warhammer ( with the outpost claiming, to get requisition )

as for the mine shaft i was speaking like idiot about this for some time already ( SAME for GOBLINS ).

and the power to replace summonable mine shaft, could be really some passive power, that increases hp of ALL dwarven buildings ( even wall addons )

[dojob]

I knew the idea of only having a cata emplacement was pushing it, but I thought it would be unique.

@ Scryer: I think having 2 cata types is a good idea, because it emphasizes their siege strengths; the emplaced cata can have great range and firepower but be handicapped by a slow firing rate and immobility. Perhaps the mobile cata can fill a more tactical role and be an anti-unit/aoe unit.

@ Myrdin: I don't think the goblins need tunnels as bad as the Dwarves since they're fast anyway. I suppose they ought to have them for realism/lore/movie reasons though. And as for economy, that was very well-done in WH: DoW since the action and economy went hand in hand and there was so much harassment to it that you had units allover the place. I absolutely LOVE Relic, and will often base ideas and opinions on my experience with DoW and CoH.

@ Fyro: Yes, faction uniqueness is critical. New factions are no good if they aren't much different from the others and more diversity makes the game deeper and make it so you can't do the same build order with 1 faction as u do with another.

@ Ravnin IV: I actually want the opposite of a lone-tower: I want a tower that doesn't shoot but can be garrisoned, preventing tower spamming from being viable and forcing people to dedicate units to an area to defend it instead of building a tower and not really worrying about it afterwards.

Edited by dojob, 21 May 2008 - 09:56 PM.

[Scryer]

I think that the cata emplacements should actually be tried out in the mod because it seems like one of those things that needs to be tested in order to predict accurate results.

Edited by Scryer, 21 May 2008 - 09:21 PM.

[dojob]

They'd need to take up part of the popcap to keep people from abusing them...

[Scryer]

I know that I have been known to suggest more powers for most of the heroes, but has there been any consideration in giving Gimli another power? I don't know about you guys but I find that when you compare Gimli to the other Hunters, he's the one with no real focus. He just has a ranged attack, a leap, and an attack-boosting power. In my opinion, Gimli should have something more to offer than those powers. I believe that he's always the one chosen last (or atleast back in BFME). What do you guys think?

I can definitely see why you guys didn't do any work on Gimli. I just think that there is something missing to him (as well as Legolas but that's another story).

Edited by Scryer, 03 June 2008 - 09:12 PM.

[CIL]

You're right... He is a bit weaker and has less focus than the others. Aoe/meta is a must for him, in my opinion, but he only gets it through a power. I think he should be given some powers that make him a bit more focused and unique as well. He's not worth his high cost.

Edited by Crazy Intellectual Liberal, 10 June 2008 - 06:52 AM.

[Fyro11]

Gimli has a leadership bonus in the public beta, I think of 50 armor or 50 dmg. His axe throw also has a small splash dmg, but I agree he needs a general aoe dmg and maybe he could cost 3000 instead of 2700.

[Devon]

His leadership is getting removed, as far as I know.

And aoe...something is gonna be done about that. Either all heroes (and maybe even units! ) will get it, or only wk and trolls will. It's just really unbalanced now when some have it and some don't.

[shadowcreature]

I agree that Gimli's leadership should be removed. Maybe replace it with a passive health booster? More time for him to fight considering the movies.
I think it's a good idea that King Dain got his attack speed increased, but I think maybe it's a little too slow.

Concerning AoE damage for heroes, I think at least one from every faction should have it.

[Scryer]

I agree that Gimli's leadership should be removed. Maybe replace it with a passive health booster? More time for him to fight considering the movies.
I think it's a good idea that King Dain got his attack speed increased, but I think maybe it's a little too slow.

Concerning AoE damage for heroes, I think at least one from every faction should have it.

I pretty much agree with what you said. I was also thinking a passive power for Gimli.... Personally I think that something small and subtle that's helpful (not a damage causing power) is needed for Gimli. I definitely agree with a health-boosting/regenerating idea.

I don't think that every faction should have one hero that does meta impact because:
1. It wouldn't make sense with some heroes (like Boromir or Glorfindel -just some examples).
2. It's too 'cookie-cutter'ish.

Honestly, I think that meta-impact damage should go to units/heroes where it makes the most sense. Like the Mordor WK and his flail attack and the trolls and Giants. I would find it unrealistic if I saw soldiers doing it. I really hate to bring realism into this but I doubt that regular soldiers (or even some M.H.H) could cause meta-impact with swords.... Calvary doesn't count (IMO), by the way because I think that that uses a different damage system.

Edited by Scryer, 04 June 2008 - 12:45 AM.

[Devon]

How does it make sense for aragorn, but not boromir and glorfindel?

If you swing a sword in front of you, you're gonna hit more than just a single person if there's more than one person in front of you.

You might be getting AoE mixed up with knockback...aoe is when an attack hits more than one unit, knockback is when units go flying back.

[mike_]

Boromir and Glorfindel shouldn't be made stronger?
EDIT: On the topic of powers for Gimli, maybe he could get a 50% damage increase when near Gloin - who would get a 50% defence increase in return.
Also, it says in Unfinished Tales that Gimli alone discovered a secret closet in Orthanc; maybe he could reveal stealthed units?

Edited by elfhelm.., 04 June 2008 - 01:40 AM.

[Scryer]

You might be getting AoE mixed up with knockback...aoe is when an attack hits more than one unit, knockback is when units go flying back.

Yes I am...oops. But I still think that only a few heroes should have it. Like maybe only the heroes that were known for their swordfighting abilities? Gimli included, I guess. By the way, Elfhelm, I never said that Glorfindel and Boromir shouldn't get stronger. I actually think that opposite and that they need higher level powers. Or atleast that Glorfindel needs a more offensive level 10 power to replace "Starlight". Now I'm off-topic...

I'm kind of enjoying Elfhelm's idea of having Gloin and Gimli boost each other. I still like a health regeneration power better though for campaign reasons (which is dumb). Yet they are hardly together in the campaign... Well, Gimli does have 2 empty slots! So he could have both.... Think that giving him both powers (regen. + Gloin boosting power) or something like that, could overpower Gimli?

For a Gloin power, I think that it should boost whatever stat the hero has less of. Like for example, if Gimli had less attack then defence then the Gloin power would boost Gimli's attack. And if Gloin had less defence than attack, then his Gimli power would boost his defence. Anyone else think this way?

Edited by Scryer, 04 June 2008 - 03:30 AM.

[mike_]

Yeah. I'm not familar with their stats, so I went with the obvious on that one

[The Black Goldfish]

Dale Building: will Esgaroth be represented? Perhaps with Spears/pikes?

Edited by The Black Goldfish, 11 June 2008 - 11:04 AM.

[Fyro11]

Well the Dale building was mentioned but there was no final word on whether it would be included or not. I think the fire arrows upgrade would naturally be available at the Dale barracks since it's only their Archers that use fire arrows. It would be interesting to have another unit but I wonder if it would cause balance issues. Perhaps it could be something in the way of turtling, but then the question arises as to which unit is supportive of turtling; archers anyone?

[CIL]

I don't find archers that usefull unless they're the ones with bombard. Unless I'm in a forteress place like Minas Tirith (excluding stupid ones like umm.. oh.. Fornost. Or Amon Sul. Also, I'm all against the Cata emplacement idea.

P.S. Gimli needs new powers and meta. I will post rant about Meta in balance issues soon

Edited by Crazy Intellectual Liberal, 15 June 2008 - 08:37 AM.

[dojob]

Hmm, idk why you think that because they can be really good if u don't let melee units get in close to them. I always have lots of them in combo hordes with swordsmen and/or pikemen and they do wonders, so idk how they're bad unless ur using them wrong.

And why are cata emplacements bad?

[Lauri]

so idk how they're bad unless ur using them wrong.

And that's how every unit should be Great as long as you use them the right way..

[Scryer]

Yeah, considering that the archers have another purpose for the dwarves; They provide some speed to the faction. As well as the other Daleian (<somebody please correct me!) units. It's the Dwarves' one weak point. But it also makes them unique. SO because the Dwarves are a slow faction, I think that you could create Dale units to hold off enemy forces while you build up your slow and highly defensive army. I haven't played the Dwarves a whole lot so people please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm gonna stress that the team should try out Cata Emplacements in the mod. This would give the Dwarves another unique edge if this kind of a unit could be implemented. I strongly think that a "Cata Emplacement" unit needs to be tried out before anyone can make a final say of whether it should be included or not because it seems like one of those things where you need to actually see it before you can form a firm opinion on it. But of course you should only do this when you shift your focus on the Dwarves.

Edited by Scryer, 15 June 2008 - 10:12 PM.