882 replies to this topic

[{IRS}Athos]

And what better weapon to slay a horseman with than... spears?

[mike_]

Pikes? In multiple, massive, organized blocks?

[{IRS}Athos]

Or a small hit team with long, pointy objects.

[Hasfusel]

I like the idea of Uruks with massive shields. It just seems so fitting. They'd guard the flanks against cavalry.
Also, Yoda earlier mentioned Men working for Isengard, which is about right. Wild Men could be a proper minifaction in its own right. For a start, Isengard lacks any light cavalry. Considering that Isengard is an infantry/siege race, that doesn't matter too much. However, what would be both fun, useful and lore-esque would be to have Dunland Riders as a light cavalry options, available from some sort of Dunland barracks. And there could be a crude Dunland catapult. The idea is that Dunland units are for all your scouting and raiding purposes, by being weak, cheap and numerous. The actual Uruks are stronger, can be upgraded, and are more expensive and valuable.
Also, before the Uruks, Saruman had ordinary Orcs under his thrall. Just plain old Orcs, from the Misty Mountains. They're the ones who made the Uruks, to start with, and the ones responsible for the destruction of the woods surrounding Isengard. You even see them in the movie. And the Warg Riders appear to be mounted orcs rather than mounted uruks, who would in any case be too large, bulky and heavy to ride something shaped like a wolf. So Isengard could recruit normal weak orcs, but maybe actually have to pay resources for them, and they wouldn't be able to recruit any special orcs (archers, Trackers, Black Orcs, Morannon Orcs, etc.).
And yes, the lore does indeed say that Orthanc was guarded by men because Saruman didn't trust the orcs. Somehow this should be implemented.

[Jaguar6]

I'm curious, when does Tolkein mention the Half-Orcs using axes? I really want to see it if you can find it

I think that we should give Isengard Half-Orc Axes, Uruk Mantlets, and some sort of Orc Rabble. Although Dunland Riders would be interesting, Isengard already has a light cavalry unit.

[{IP} Aridor]

The Dunlandings didn't really use horses.

[mike_]

They did have some ill-geared horsemen at the First Battle of the Fords of Isen, yes. Though they were used alongside the Warg-riders, to an effect best described as "meh".

And yes, for the third time, the "Half-Orcs" mentioned in the books did use axes - I don't want to be arsed but if forced to I will get quotes from "Unfinished Tales", Section "The Third Age of the Sun", Chapter "Battles of the Fords of Isen".

[dojob]

So what role would halforcs play when uruks are already fairly heavy infantry units?

[mike_]

Serve as the MHH? Or whatever we're wanting to replace the "Deathbringers" with.

[dojob]

K then

[Jaguar6]

And yes, for the third time, the "Half-Orcs" mentioned in the books did use axes - I don't want to be arsed but if forced to I will get quotes from "Unfinished Tales", Section "The Third Age of the Sun", Chapter "Battles of the Fords of Isen".

Lol, I didn't mean what I said as a challenge, I actually want to know where Tolkein says that out of curiosity, it sounds interesting to me

I think that they would be better as elite infantry that can do a quick and deadly charge where they slaughter a few enemy units, and then get picked of once the hand to hand fighting kicks in, rather then a MHH unit. I would rather have the Uruk Mantlets as a MHH.

[Devon]

No extra dunland units! No no no no no!

[dojob]

Mhm, regular dunlandmen are pretty good at raiding, so having a cavalry unit as well would end in big facepalm for Yoda after seeing all his farms go down from so many raiding units :(


And plus u already have warg riders as cavalry; a dunland raider unit would make both wargs and dunlandmen pretty useless and some other Dunland unit would be unnecessary except for maybe a support unit like a chieftain or something.

Afaic, either Half orcs or shieldmen would be good replacements for DBs as MHHs.

[Neth]

Are uruk-hai not half orc?

[Pasidon]

I do like the half orc idea as long as it looks and acts cool, it's just the name that bothers me.
Oooo... the feirce mutant baby; Orc Urk...

[{IP} Aridor]

They aren't really Half orcs

[Devon]

But they are half orc

[Jaguar6]

Uruk Hai=Strange bread of super Orcs created by Sauran.
Half-Orcs=Mixture of Uruk Hai (or Orcs) and Men created by Saruman by some magical breeding program

So is the plan to have Half-Orc Warriors and Uruk Mantlets then?

[dojob]

1 or the other would be better imo.

[Hasfusel]

Mantlets. Definately Mantlets.

Just reminding you that Isengard really could do with plain old Orcs, and certainly Wildmen Horsemen. Warg Riders are expensive, powerful, do strong damage, have good armor and can be upgraded. Dunland Riders are the complete other end of the spectrum, with weak armor, good attack against resource buildings, speed, and that's about it.