882 replies to this topic

[Neth]

If Saruman found an uruk with the ring even id feel sorry for the uruk.

Edited by Nethelen Narcu, 05 December 2008 - 11:52 PM.

[{IRS}Athos]

Too bad the ring uruk could probably kill him...

[Neth]

Yeah i suppose even Saruman coundnt stop him/her/it/me and i wouldnt even like to try to imagine what could have happened had Morgoth got the ring.

[Hasfusel]

No, wearing the Ring doesn't make you invincible or give you super powers. You need to understand how to use it, for a start, and there are only a few individuals who do - Sauron and Saruman. Gandalf and a few others who have wielded rings of power such as Elrond, Galadriel, Círdan and maybe a few Elves and Dwarves and the other wizards could probably work out how to use it, while ordinary folk wouldn't get much other than turning invisible while wearing the ring.
However, if were a man who had real strength of mind and will, like Aragorn, you might be able to wield the Ring to gain other benefits, such as incredible leadership abilities, and the ability to dominate the wills of others.

If only I had the Ring of Power... How I would drive the out the hosts of Mordor! All men would flock to my banner!

- Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring

So an ordinary Uruk finding the Ring would not be able to stand up to Saruman. He'd be too weak and stupid to use the Ring, and would just get frazzled. It makes no sense to allow any other Isengard hero to wied the Ring. And Dalf, an ordinary Uruk (or hero, for that matter) wouldn't know or dare to put on the Ring. It isn't so powerful that it would actually forcefully compel everyone within a certain radius to grab it. It just twists chance a bit, unless you've been strongly exposed to it for a long period of time and/or know what it does and how to use it.
So please, just keep it for Saruman. As if he'd let anyone else touch it, let alone use it. And they wouldn't know how, anyway. It just doesn't work.

Edited by Hasfusel, 06 December 2008 - 05:46 PM.

[Dalf32]

why wouldnt an uruk dare to put it on? please enlighten me on why the ring doesnt want to be used. as soon as an uruk picked it up he would likely be compelled to put it on or at the very least keep it in his possession for a while before wearing it. dont forget that the will of an uruk and that of say a hobbit would be very different and an uruk would likely be more succeptible to the seductive powers of the ring than a hobbit would.

[{IP} Aridor]

The Uruk would try to steal it, but he would eventually be caught and tortured for it, or he would slip into hiding like Gollum. Sauruman knew this, so he gave orders that the hobbits were not to be searched, hurt, or killed. He did not did not want the Uruks to find it. Even though they would have no idea about its potential power the Uruk would be draw irresistibly to the ring. The effect would be faster due to their evil nature. Evil can feel its draw even when it isn't known. This is why the watcher attacked Frodo, and the large Orc chieftain attacked Frodo in the mines of Moria. If any of these creatures got the ring they would try to use it, but would fail. The only creatures that would bring to their master no matter what would be the Nine. They had no will of their own.

[Hasfusel]

Yes, but even so, the Ring just isn't that compelling. The Uruks are told not to mess with it, it's reserved for the master, they don't know how to use it, and they will face fierce punishment for taking it. The Uruks are also heavily disciplined, and their will largely belongs to Saruman. He created them and taught them everything they believe and understand; they just won't go against his orders, unless maybe they were as exposed to the Ring as Frodo was. The Ring doesn't force everybody nearby to throw common sense to the wind and rush for it; otherwise Bilbo, Frodo and Gollum would have been caught when wearing the Ring to avoid danger, because everyone could "feel" the Ring and feel compelled to grab it. The Council of Elrond would have killed each other as soon as it was brought out. Isildur's soldiers would all have blindly attacked him.
It just doesn't work. Besides, if an Uruk did take the Ring:

1) He wouldn't have known or had the power to use it in any way other than becoming invisible, and in any case would have been very quickly enslaved by its will, if you are suggesting that their own will is so weak they would be compelled to keep it.

2) Any Uruk taking the Ring for himself would be immediately hunted down and killed by more loyal Uruks. He'd just run away from everyone else. It would make no sense at all gamewise.

The only reasonable method is to make Saruman the only one who can use the Ring in Isengard, which also means you have more space to work on how he can use it.
What's more, Saruman would not be killed by it like you want for the other heroes. His will is strong enough to control it exactly how he wants.

[Dalf32]

the problem is they were not told specifically not to mess with the ring, they were told not to mess with the hobbits. they wouldnt know that saruman wanted it. i agree that the uruks wouldnt knowingly go against saruman's orders, but in this case i dont believe that they were ordered not to touch the ring.
and no one ever said that they would rush for it immediately, but if they did find it by chance they would most definitely put it on at least once. them not knowing how to use it wouldnt stop them from putting it on or from being corrupted by it. i dont think any uruk who found the ring would continue to return to saruman either. he would likely become paranoid and leave off on his own and so saruman may never find out that the ring was taken by one of his uruks.
the ring system we are going to have would not have any units wear the ring, only heros can pick it up and use it.
and the ring corrupts everyone except for the nazgul and sauron eventually. gandalf didnt take the ring because he knew he would be corrupted by it, and the same goes for saruman.

[Hasfusel]

For a start: yes, they do know that it's something that the hobbits carry.

"No-one touches the halflings! They have something; an Elvish weapon.

Also, it depends what you mean by "corrupted".
With a lesser mortal (an ordinary soldier or a weaker hero), after using and carrying the Ring for awhile the Ring would be able to control him, sort of. It would increase to the point that the mortal would loose all will, and would likely fade permanantly after a very long while (Gandalf says this in the Fellowship, but curiously nothing of the sort happened to Gollum, although his physical form deteriorated), and be laid bare before Sauron.
With someone with stronger prescence of mind (Aragorn, Gandalf, Saruman, Galadriel, etc.) that wouldn't happen. But, they would be corrupted in a different way. The Ring wouldn't control them, but they'd gradually turn evil as they begin to use the power it brings for their own purposes, which would become more and more selfish. But it would take so long that we can't really implement this into the game, so I think you should just allow the stronger Good heroes to wield the Ring for as long as they live.
What EA did in BFME1 was say that after awhile of wearing the Ring, the Eye of Sauron would appear over Frodo and he'd be exposed or weakened and paralysed, meaning that you coudn't just keep wearing it, you'd have to take it off for awhile every few minutes. You could do this; after wearing the Ring for, say, five minutes, the Eye of Sauron will appear and the hero will be paralysed and weakened, or even poisoned after being in the light. The way to avoid this is to take off the Ring at regular intervals, for a small while each time. If it's possibe to code, that is.
But the point is that it's impossible that an Uruk hero could remain on the Isengard team after taking the Ring for himself. He'd instantly be hunted down and slain by all the others. It just doesn't make any sense in any way that an Uruk would be allowed to use the Ring. They would have had strict orders not to touch it, besides.
And Saruman's already evil, so the Ring would have no noticeable corruptive effect on him. You'd think he'd have learnt how to negate that, anyway.
Please, just keep it simple - if Isengard picks up the Ring, they bring it to the fortress, meaning that:
a) If Saruman has not been recruited yet, you can now recruit him as Saruman of Many Colours, carrying the Ring.
b) If Saruman is already in play, you can move him into the fortress to collect the Ring, making him Saruman of Many Colours until he is killed and the Ring is lost.
This also means, as well as being fun to play and making sense, that you can put much more detail into Saruman when he wields the Ring.

[Dalf32]

this will probably sound mean but; youre not actually arguing anything, just regurgitating the same old stuff. you said yourself that the uruks did not know that what the hobbits had was a ring, jsut that it was a weapon. when someone tells you to go and grab their weapon, you dont hand them a ring. by this i mean that they most likely would not have associated a ring with a weapon and would thus, in their eyes, not be disregarding saruman's orders.
and you keep saying that if an uruk took the ring that the other uruks would immediately hunt him down and kill him; but why? what would tell them that they need to kill this guy? and i doubt that they would go off searching for one of their party if he slipped off, even if he was their leader.

also i would not go so far as to say that saruman would be immune to the corruptive powers of the ring. imo he was never fully corrupted, but regardless, he would still have fallen even farther into darkness, forsaking even his newfound allies. no matter how much knowledge he may have gained, i find it hard to believe that he would have, out of nowhere, discovered how to counteract the negative effects of the ring. i dont see this as something that is possible.

finally, the ring system will be so that once the hero puts on the ring, he/she will not be able to take it off again and will eventually become corrupted (esentially aggressive neutral). someone correct me if im wrong, but i think this is how its going to be.

[Devon]

Regardless of what they knew the ring was or wasn't, any 'evil' creature would be innately drawn to it if they saw it or, worse, had it in their position. That's just how the ring works.


Besides, we aren't talking about any uruk units. Only uruk heroes can pick up the ring, implying the more intelligent uruks

[Vithar-133]

Not sure if the trainer is a good idea...not sure about the "mine structure", either.

In my eyes, Isengard needs only the mantlet uruks if it gets anything new.

[dojob]

In my eyes, Isengard needs only the mantlet uruks if it gets anything new.

[Dalf32]

i will 3rd that motion simply to take up space

[Devon]

I will fourth it for the free post

[{IRS}Athos]

I fifth it for the free post.

[Scryer]

I will 6th it because 6 is my lucky number (and the devil's ).

And now to make my post not seem so immature :

There was talk a LONG time ago about having a fortress upgrade where Saruman can mount it and cast spells from there. Is this idea being completely scrapped, or is there a slight chance that it could get added? I don't lean in a particular way for this question; I just don't think that we all confirmed that it wasn't an idea to consider.

[{IRS}Athos]

Oh, I like that... Lightning bolts for everyone!!!

[{IP} Aridor]

Drinks all around!

As far as the mounting the tower thing I think that would be really sweet, but it should be like a boost in the normal power