882 replies to this topic

[Hasfusel]

I forgot to add Crossbowmen:

Uruk-hai Crossbowmen: Basic heavy archer units with slow rate of fire but heavy attack and good armor. Weak range, however, but they can chew up infantry units. When Orthanc Armory is applied, they become
White Hand Thunderers: Super heavy archer units with slow rate of fire but shots that are incredibly damaging and pierce armor. Heavy armor. Slower than crossbowmen. Average range to compensate for lack of accuracy. When upgraded with Flaming Shot, they can take down most units with one bolt. Devastating against all units if they get in range.

Dunland Boneriders are mainly unit killers, for charging into scores of soldiers and demoralizing them. I'm hoping Wild Man cavalry will be added for destroying buildings. I think Isengard should have a Dunland subfaction for all their weak, light units in the early game. You have Dunland Rabble for meat shields and attacking resource buildings; Crebain Archers (just a name, they're hillmen with bows) that have good ranged damage but get slaughtered close up; Wild Horsemen for raiding and flanking archers; Hillman Axethrowers for dealing melée damage at a distance, useful against pikemen and buildings. Horsemen and Rabble can be upgraded with Torches as well as Banners. None can recieve Heavy Armor, Forged Blades or Orthanc Armory.

Edited by Hasfusel, 02 June 2009 - 08:57 AM.

[{IRS}Athos]

I like the idea, but not the unit names. In your own words, they seem like they've been thought up under the influence of World of Warcraft, the worst drug ever.

[Florisz]

Yeah, IRS is kinda right. Dunland Bonesomethings are upgraded Warg Riders, right? Then they are Uruk-Hai or Orcs, not Wildmen of Dunland, right? Uruk-Hai Warg Bonesomething might work a little better but yeah... Not very LOTR-y...

[Hasfusel]

I've never tried WoW. I don't consider that to be fantasy. It's like the combined efforts of poor LOTR fanfiction writers, but with cartoony graphics.
That was one reason why I felt compelled to provide suggestions for improved Nazgul names, to enhance the atmosphere of the mod, but oh well.

I'm not great with unit names, but they provide a small amount of detail. Phalanx = heavily armored blocks of troops in Ancient Greek history. Guardians suggest the way they are great at defense. Boneriders is to show that they heavily intimidate enemies, and the way that they ride wolf-like animals, and the way Warg Rider armor looks a little like bone. Thunderers reflects the devastating damage of the heavy crossbows. A skirmisher would have been a soldier who shot a bow at the beginning of the battle (or thew an axe or knife; crossbow would have been too slow) and then switched to a principle weapon such as a sword or lance when the enemy got close. The word skirmish means a small battle, generally nothing more than an exchange of arrows between small groups. I'm not just coming up with whatever crap comes to mind.

EDIT: You feel you can come up with better, by all means. I don't think you'll find anything more accurate/fitting, however I may be wrong.

Edited by Hasfusel, 03 June 2009 - 09:48 AM.

[Florisz]

Yeah I'm not great with names either, but DUNLAND Bonerider? Shouldn't that be Isengard Bonerider?

[Excuse_me_princess]

What about these:
Warg riders -> Riders of Orthanc
Uruk Hai Swordsmen -> The white hand/fist (as they are the main elite units for Saruman... his will so to speak)
Uruk crossbowmen -> Bane of Fangorn (cause they do fire damage and as ranged units should work well against ents)

Why not try some Istari names?

[Uruk King]

I'm not too fond of the "Bane of Fangorn" because it wasn't the crossbowmen who destroyed fangorn's trees, it was orcs, orc labourers.

I'd Say:

Warg Riders - Wolves of Isengard
Uruk Warriors - Uruk Vanguard
Uruk Pikemen - Uruk Phalanx
Uruk Crossbows - Uruk Sharpshootrers

They're essentially the same as Hasufel's descriptions

[{IRS}Athos]

Pretty good names there, Uruk King.

[Excuse_me_princess]

Very nice Uruk king, thou art worthy of thy name!
Well as they say "Less is more", I got a little too creative
The "Bane of Fangorn" actually revered to the Uruks that defended Isengard during the Ent siege... but they died... and so did Isengard... so...

But... Wargs technically aren't wolves (I can be mistaken) though they are related to them.
So to avoid confusion with the Angmar wolf riders I would stick to something like "Riders of Orthanc" or some other reverence to Saruman.
But that's just my opinion.

[dojob]

I'm not too fond of the "Bane of Fangorn" because it wasn't the crossbowmen who destroyed fangorn's trees, it was orcs, orc labourers.

I'd Say:

Warg Riders - Wolves of Isengard
Uruk Warriors - Uruk Vanguard
Uruk Pikemen - Uruk Phalanx
Uruk Crossbows - Uruk Sharpshootrers

They're essentially the same as Hasufel's descriptions

No, 1 phalanx unit is bad enough

[Ring o' Fate]

...Wargs ARE wolves. Well, very corrupted wolves.
Edit: If I recall at least.

Edited by Ring of Fate, 04 June 2009 - 06:39 PM.

[Uruk King]

I'm not too fond of the "Bane of Fangorn" because it wasn't the crossbowmen who destroyed fangorn's trees, it was orcs, orc labourers.

I'd Say:

Warg Riders - Wolves of Isengard
Uruk Warriors - Uruk Vanguard
Uruk Pikemen - Uruk Phalanx
Uruk Crossbows - Uruk Sharpshootrers

They're essentially the same as Hasufel's descriptions

No, 1 phalanx unit is bad enough

Oh my God, can't you be open minded in any way shape or form?

On a more positive note, thanks for the complements every one.

Edited by Uruk King, 05 June 2009 - 05:32 AM.

[Hasfusel]

Vanguard relates to your position in a formation. Uruk Warriors form the bulk of an Isengard army, meaning they won't generally act as Vanguards. Phalanx is more fitting. The Pikeman's upgrade is an extreme defense unit that will not form the bulk of an army, hence Guardians.
A Sharpshooter reflects a fast marksman/assassin, the opposite of a crossbowman. And these are super-heavy crossbowmen, best heavy archers in the game.

May I mention that I named each one over a specific province of Isengard to avoid repeating the names Uruk-Hai, Isengard or Orthanc, to increase the individuality of the unit and the appearance of being "specialised". Here is my final draft:

Uruk-Hai Warriors/Swordsmem -> Isengard Phalanx (it's the least "specialised" of the names due to their all-round capable fighting skills)
Uruk-Hai Pikemen -> Orthanc Guardians (reflects defensive capabilities and the fact that they would guard the doors to Orthanc in the case of invasion)
Uruk-Hai Scouts -> Fangorn Skirmishers (Skirmishers would have begun hiding amongst the trees of Fangorn as advanced scouts and ambushers)
Uruk-Hai Crossbowmen -> White Fist Thunderers (reflects their status as Saruman's personal guard and the most fearsome of his ranged units, with incredibly powerful ranged attacks that knock back enemies as well as killing in almost one shot, at least when upgraded with fire arrows)
Uruk-Hai Warg Riders -> Dunland/Westfold Boneriders (I have explained why Boneriders, and Dunland is the greatest and most wild province of Isengard, also thought to be home to the wargs. The Westfold could be an option, because Warg Rider encounters in the book and film happened mostly around the Westfold area)

So, are we agreed about having an Orthanc Armory upgrade, and these unit templates for the uprades?

Edited by Hasfusel, 05 June 2009 - 11:03 AM.

[Uruk King]

You are right about the definition of what a Vanguard is in terms of their position in an army, it's not too fitting for the staple force of Saruman's army.

But your use of the phalanx term is still not being used right, a phalanx is a rectangular mass military formation, usually composed entirely of heavy infantry armed with spears, pikes, sarissas, or similar weapons. A very stalwart formation great against cavalry, resilient against archers, and many infantry risk being skewered. It's not what would be reffered to concerning a strong force of infantry that can't stand too well against cavalry.

Perhaps, the title The White Hand could work, implying that they are shock-troops of Isengard's mailed fist.

[dojob]

I'm not too fond of the "Bane of Fangorn" because it wasn't the crossbowmen who destroyed fangorn's trees, it was orcs, orc labourers.

I'd Say:

Warg Riders - Wolves of Isengard
Uruk Warriors - Uruk Vanguard
Uruk Pikemen - Uruk Phalanx
Uruk Crossbows - Uruk Sharpshootrers

They're essentially the same as Hasufel's descriptions

No, 1 phalanx unit is bad enough

Oh my God, can't you be open minded in any way shape or form?

On a more positive note, thanks for the complements every one.

Yeah I can, but this just isn't one of those cases :/ I'm sorry if that made u angry, but I've always thought of a phalanx as a formation, not a class of soldier like a pikeman or archer, that's all.

Now, before you assume that I'm completely closed-minded about your ideas for unit upgrades, I actually agree with you


And personally, I'd go with these names:

Uruk Raiders -> White Hand Warriors/Heavy Uruk Warriors
Uruk Archers -> Uruk Crossbowmen
Uruk Pikemen -> White Hand Guards
Warg Riders -> Warg Vanguards
Wildman Raiders -> Dunland Clansmen


Perhaps the units on the left of the arrows would be cheaper and faster (well, except for wargs, who'd get faster when upgraded) than our current uruks, but would only be able to upgrade with banners and into the better units, which would then get upgrades like FBs, HA, and fire arrows. The upgraded versions would probably have some special abilities too, ofc.

This way you could either choose between spamming ok units or dedicating lots of money to make your units really good, which I think is fitting; uruks on their own weren't much better than orcs, but became amazing with the steel weapons that were made in Isengard, so this system is not only new and unique, but also goes really well with the Isen theme of industry and weapons.

Edited by dojob, 05 June 2009 - 07:15 PM.

[Uruk King]

Then I fully apologise for my own narrow-mindedness on my part. Your own names sound pretty excellent , the idea behind it sound right for Isengard. It's just that you did not really make your point too clear and it looked a bit like criticism even though it really wasn't.

And you're right, a phalanx is more like a tactical formation than a separate unit.

[dojob]

NP, I can't blame u.

[Deathlord135]

Uruk Scouts -> Uruk Hunters
Uruk Warriors -> Uruk Champions
Uruk Crossbowmen-> Vetern/Elite/Heavy Crossbowme
Uruk Pikemen -> Uruk Phalax
Warg Riders -> Warg Vanguard
Warg Pack-> Feral Wargs
Bezerkers-> Feral Uruk-hai lol Mahahahaha
Wildmen of Dunland-> Duneling Maraders
Wildmen Axe Throwers-> Duneling Scavengers

[Ring o' Fate]

"Duneling"? What is this, Dune?