882 replies to this topic

[CTLN7]

Its an movie about wars in desert
And an old game Dune 2000

[Excuse_me_princess]

Its an movie about wars in desert
And an old game Dune 2000

Yes, but that's only far from true.

It's actually a book series which started in 1965, written by Frank Herbert.
The series sports 6 books set over a timespan of about 6000 years.
It's generally about the Desert Planet Arakis (aka Dune) and at first sight seems to be another sience fiction novel.
But there's actually a lot of sociologics, psychologics, enviromentalism, politicts and mysticism embedded into the story.
It has won tonns of awards (Nebula award, Hugo award and many others) and it's declared to be the best work of fiction ever produced!
I have to admit that the story surpasses Lotr by far, in terms of detail and stroy.
Sadly however, because of the complexity of the story it is not acsessable to a big audience.
And the movies and games were to say terrible travesties compared to the novels, causing the story to lose some popularity.
But if you enjoy complex stories and details, I would more than recommend Dune.
It's not just another story, it's an lifes experience.

One last thing:
Read Dune and Lotr and you know where George Lucas got his Ideas for STAR WARS

[Excuse_me_princess]

Is there going to be some sort of Dunland cavelry?

Edited by Excuse_me_princess, 08 June 2009 - 06:55 PM.

[Uruk King]

And all this Dune stuff and your opinions of widely disregarded movies is relevant to Isengard in what way exactly?

[Excuse_me_princess]

Not in any way, but someone asked what Dune was and I answered.
And since that question had been asked several times (in other topics) and remained unanswered I just answered it here
Lets get back on topic shall we.

[Ring o' Fate]

...I KNOW WHAT DUNE WAS!!!!!!!!!!! I wasn't asking what it is, I was saying:
"I thought this was LOTR, not Dune. "
Jesus Christ, how stupid can you guys get? God....

[Excuse_me_princess]

...I KNOW WHAT DUNE WAS!!!!!!!!!!! I wasn't asking what it is, I was saying:
"I thought this was LOTR, not Dune. "
Jesus Christ, how stupid can you guys get? God....

Hey, hey.
Easy dude, no need to get the old men and his son into this.
Relax man, let's just refrain from calling names okay, we're all on the same side here, ight?

[Uruk King]

I have to agree with EMP on this one, that was more than a little of the top.

But on topic, I don't think Isengard should have a secondary form of cavalry, their strength is in heavy infantry and siege weapons, warg riders are there just to just to support the uruks and raiding enemy camps, they're too weak to face oncoming armies of cavalry, unless at a high veterancy level. So I'm not too in favour of Dunland horsemen, I can only see them coming into this if there was some sort of plan to greatly expand the mod even further, and I mean minifactions and all that follows.

[Dalf32]

i agree whole-heartedly with my buddy uruk up there.

[dojob]

Mhm, they'd make the regular dunlandmen kinda useless :/

[Devon]

Except as op rush units.

[Uruk King]

Except as op rush units.

Quoted for Truth. Dunlendings are too strong for their purpose anyway, they deal more damage than Uruk-hai and have more health, 350hp vs 300 for Uruk-hai

[Uruk King]

I think that more thrall summon systems would spoil gameplay to some extent. It works for Rohan in the light of the fact that these were men called to arms to aid their kingdom, and the Angmar thrall theme has always seemed weak to me but could have worked if used in the right way.

[dojob]

Except as op rush units.

Well, either wildmen, warg riders, or the dunland horsemen would be useless if dunland horsemen were added tbh, so yeah that's bad. Instead of having all of these crazy-named units for Isengard and giving them a thrall system (it could work with uruks, but not dunlandmen imo), here's what I'd like to see:


-Have three of these "Orthanc armory" type of upgrades that you buy per lvl2 training building; uruk pits can each get the "White Hand Uruks" upgrade which makes them produce elite and expensive Helms-Deep uruks instead of regular FotR uruks, warg pits can get the "Warg Riders" upgrade to train warg riders INSTEAD of warg packs (more on this later), and your Clan steadings can be upgraded to train clansmen instead of wildmen. Once these elite upgrades are bought, they'll be able to train units that are more expensive, but better.

-Regular wildmen should be much weaker at first but can be upgraded to clansmen to get pillage and become better against buildings; regular wildmen with torches would still be pretty good raiders, but clansmen would be as good as the current wildmen, which rape everything and can get an ax throw ability to make up for my next change.

-Dunland ax throwers could be removed, since I don't see much of a point in having both them and xbows.

-Warg riders are removed as a unit, but you can upgrade your warg packs with riders and once you buy the "warg riders" upgrade, then your wargs should have an insane attack, and with howl should do more damage than any other cav except for maybe rohirrim with leadership; by having warg riders with such high attacks, they aren't completely abandoned in favor of dunlandmen, which atm are much better for raiding and killing.

-Uruk warriors, xbows, and pikes are nerfed and cost less when made from regular pits; without their elite upgrades, they shouldn't be much better than orcs, but with the "White Hand Uruks" upgrade, then they'd be about the same as the current uruks and could get some nice abilities.

Edited by dojob, 11 June 2009 - 08:42 PM.

[Hasfusel]

-Have three of these "Orthanc armory" type of upgrades that you buy per lvl2 training building; uruk pits can each get the "White Hand Uruks" upgrade which makes them produce elite and expensive Helms-Deep uruks instead of regular FotR uruks, warg pits can get the "Warg Riders" upgrade to train warg riders INSTEAD of warg packs (more on this later), and your Clan steadings can be upgraded to train clansmen instead of wildmen. Once these elite upgrades are bought, they'll be able to train units that are more expensive, but better.

No no no, the idea is that the upgraded units are different in quality and purpose quite heavily and therefore the upgrade is applied individually to each battallion like Banner Carrier. Even when you have the money to make upgraded Black Uruk-Hai, you still make some regular ones for the bulk of your army becuase they're a lot cheaper and quite faster than Black Uruks, who are the Helm's Deep fighters. Orthanc Armory is applied to each Isengard unit to change it into a heavier, more specialised form. It's very expensive, but worth it. If it was automatically applied to your whole army, Isengard would be unbeatable. You'd still use the basic units as well.

-Regular wildmen should be much weaker at first but can be upgraded to clansmen to get pillage and become better against buildings; regular wildmen with torches would still be pretty good raiders, but clansmen would be as good as the current wildmen, which rape everything and can get an ax throw ability to make up for my next change.

I really don't like the idea of units having an axe throw "ability" like Gimli. Clansmen would be Wildmen, but with a passive Pillage power at Lvl.2, and faster and stronger, especially versus buildings. They're more specialised, see. They're like the Wildmen who've been inducted properly into Saruman's army and have recieved proper training and equipment. They also have a War Chant if you can get them up to Lvl.5, which is like a Warg Howl.

-Dunland ax throwers could be removed, since I don't see much of a point in having both them and xbows.

Are you kidding? Those guys have saved my ass so many times in the early game. They're great because of their cost, ability and training time, and when loads of them are coupled with loads of dunlandings and a couple of pike battallions early on, you have a truly ultimate rush tactic. Providing you get your Clan Steading up in time with enough resources, that is. These guys wouldn't have an Orthanc Armory upgrade however.

-Warg riders are removed as a unit, but you can upgrade your warg packs with riders and once you buy the "warg riders" upgrade, then your wargs should have an insane attack, and with howl should do more damage than any other cav except for maybe rohirrim with leadership; by having warg riders with such high attacks, they aren't completely abandoned in favor of dunlandmen, which atm are much better for raiding and killing.

That is interesting. I like that, but I feel that ordinary Warg Riders should be basic, weaker-than-knights-or-rohirrim-type cavalry. Orthanc Armory makes them into Boneriders; front line chargers that open up enemy lines to start the battle (especially with a Charge ability that is like a better Warg Howl that adds resistance to pikes and less drag when crushing?). Ordinary Warg Riders are weak raiding cavalry that are useful for supporting a full army or harrassing enemy archers. Alternatively, you could have Wargs upgrade into Warg Riders using Orthanc Armory or a new upgrade researchable at the Armory, Riding Tactics. This, however, might not be cost-effective and I think most players wouldn't bother.
BTW, Sharku should be able to dismount...? At least for aesthetic reasons, and letting him get past pikes. I think he could have a Pillage ability when on foot. You could use an Orc Raider CAH model.

-Uruk warriors, xbows, and pikes are nerfed and cost less when made from regular pits; without their elite upgrades, they shouldn't be much better than orcs, but with the "White Hand Uruks" upgrade, then they'd be about the same as the current uruks and could get some nice abilities.

I think that if my Orthanc Armory idea is accepted, Warriors, Pikes, Crossbows (and the new scout unit) would be slightly weakened to prevent Isengard from being OP, but they'd be a bit cheaper.

Orthanc Armory would cost perhaps 1500-2500 to research at a Lvl.2 or 3 Armory, and would cost 500 to apply.

[dojob]

-Have three of these "Orthanc armory" type of upgrades that you buy per lvl2 training building; uruk pits can each get the "White Hand Uruks" upgrade which makes them produce elite and expensive Helms-Deep uruks instead of regular FotR uruks, warg pits can get the "Warg Riders" upgrade to train warg riders INSTEAD of warg packs (more on this later), and your Clan steadings can be upgraded to train clansmen instead of wildmen. Once these elite upgrades are bought, they'll be able to train units that are more expensive, but better.

No no no, the idea is that the upgraded units are different in quality and purpose quite heavily and therefore the upgrade is applied individually to each battallion like Banner Carrier. Even when you have the money to make upgraded Black Uruk-Hai, you still make some regular ones for the bulk of your army becuase they're a lot cheaper and quite faster than Black Uruks, who are the Helm's Deep fighters. Orthanc Armory is applied to each Isengard unit to change it into a heavier, more specialised form. It's very expensive, but worth it. If it was automatically applied to your whole army, Isengard would be unbeatable. You'd still use the basic units as well.

-Regular wildmen should be much weaker at first but can be upgraded to clansmen to get pillage and become better against buildings; regular wildmen with torches would still be pretty good raiders, but clansmen would be as good as the current wildmen, which rape everything and can get an ax throw ability to make up for my next change.

I really don't like the idea of units having an axe throw "ability" like Gimli. Clansmen would be Wildmen, but with a passive Pillage power at Lvl.2, and faster and stronger, especially versus buildings. They're more specialised, see. They're like the Wildmen who've been inducted properly into Saruman's army and have recieved proper training and equipment. They also have a War Chant if you can get them up to Lvl.5, which is like a Warg Howl.

-Dunland ax throwers could be removed, since I don't see much of a point in having both them and xbows.

Are you kidding? Those guys have saved my ass so many times in the early game. They're great because of their cost, ability and training time, and when loads of them are coupled with loads of dunlandings and a couple of pike battallions early on, you have a truly ultimate rush tactic. Providing you get your Clan Steading up in time with enough resources, that is. These guys wouldn't have an Orthanc Armory upgrade however.

-Warg riders are removed as a unit, but you can upgrade your warg packs with riders and once you buy the "warg riders" upgrade, then your wargs should have an insane attack, and with howl should do more damage than any other cav except for maybe rohirrim with leadership; by having warg riders with such high attacks, they aren't completely abandoned in favor of dunlandmen, which atm are much better for raiding and killing.

That is interesting. I like that, but I feel that ordinary Warg Riders should be basic, weaker-than-knights-or-rohirrim-type cavalry. Orthanc Armory makes them into Boneriders; front line chargers that open up enemy lines to start the battle (especially with a Charge ability that is like a better Warg Howl that adds resistance to pikes and less drag when crushing?). Ordinary Warg Riders are weak raiding cavalry that are useful for supporting a full army or harrassing enemy archers. Alternatively, you could have Wargs upgrade into Warg Riders using Orthanc Armory or a new upgrade researchable at the Armory, Riding Tactics. This, however, might not be cost-effective and I think most players wouldn't bother.
BTW, Sharku should be able to dismount...? At least for aesthetic reasons, and letting him get past pikes. I think he could have a Pillage ability when on foot. You could use an Orc Raider CAH model.

-Uruk warriors, xbows, and pikes are nerfed and cost less when made from regular pits; without their elite upgrades, they shouldn't be much better than orcs, but with the "White Hand Uruks" upgrade, then they'd be about the same as the current uruks and could get some nice abilities.

I think that if my Orthanc Armory idea is accepted, Warriors, Pikes, Crossbows (and the new scout unit) would be slightly weakened to prevent Isengard from being OP, but they'd be a bit cheaper.

Orthanc Armory would cost perhaps 1500-2500 to research at a Lvl.2 or 3 Armory, and would cost 500 to apply.

Yes, your idea was to have the armory upgrade for individual units and X ability for Y unit, but I'm not talking about your ideas, I'm talking about mine, and I was just saying that I'd personally prefer the upgrade on buildings so that you can actually produce the units with different names instead of just giving them another upgrade.

I've never seen ax throwers online in RJ so I don't know much about them. If these units are so great, then would u mind proving it online?

Orthanc Armory is applied to each Isengard unit to change it into a heavier, more specialised form. It's very expensive, but worth it. If it was automatically applied to your whole army, Isengard would be unbeatable. You'd still use the basic units as well.

How is my idea any different from urs in terms of unstoppability? The way I saw it, all of Isengard's units would be cheaper and weaker and would only be as good as the current ones after they got the upgrade, and they'd also get some fun abilities too; I thought I made it clear that after you buy the special upgrades, then you'd be able to train elite units that cost more, so it's "expensive, but worth it" just like your idea. It wouldn't be imba at all if u balanced it right.

And black uruks are already a mordor unit btw

[Neth]

-Have three of these "Orthanc armory" type of upgrades that you buy per lvl2 training building; uruk pits can each get the "White Hand Uruks" upgrade which makes them produce elite and expensive Helms-Deep uruks instead of regular FotR uruks, warg pits can get the "Warg Riders" upgrade to train warg riders INSTEAD of warg packs (more on this later), and your Clan steadings can be upgraded to train clansmen instead of wildmen. Once these elite upgrades are bought, they'll be able to train units that are more expensive, but better.

-Regular wildmen should be much weaker at first but can be upgraded to clansmen to get pillage and become better against buildings; regular wildmen with torches would still be pretty good raiders, but clansmen would be as good as the current wildmen, which rape everything and can get an ax throw ability to make up for my next change.

-Dunland ax throwers could be removed, since I don't see much of a point in having both them and xbows.

-Warg riders are removed as a unit, but you can upgrade your warg packs with riders and once you buy the "warg riders" upgrade, then your wargs should have an insane attack, and with howl should do more damage than any other cav except for maybe rohirrim with leadership; by having warg riders with such high attacks, they aren't completely abandoned in favor of dunlandmen, which atm are much better for raiding and killing.

-Uruk warriors, xbows, and pikes are nerfed and cost less when made from regular pits; without their elite upgrades, they shouldn't be much better than orcs, but with the "White Hand Uruks" upgrade, then they'd be about the same as the current uruks and could get some nice abilities.

I have to say this. I LOVE those ideas.

Edited by Nethelen Narcu, 25 June 2009 - 11:13 PM.

[Hasfusel]

Axe Throwers in RJ online, I don't know because I've never tried it online - I figured it wouldn't be worth it because virtually every single player RJ game I play crashes after ten minutes with a game.dat error. What's the Hamachi password, in case I decide to try anyway? It would be fun to try RJ ROTWK against other people.

Getting new units available fresh from the building would work, but the idea's slightly less exciting, I personally think it would be more fun to be able to personally apply the units to each unit when you wanted them, although it doesn't affect gameplay other than that except that experience, groupings and other upgrades would be passed on. Having new units available once the upgrade was purchased is fine.

[dojob]

Robnkarla, robnkarla, Robismyhero, and robismyhero are usually the 1s that work with RJ networks iirc, and I can give u some names too if u want