475 replies to this topic

[robnkarla]

Add any suggestions and/or bugs for Goblins in here. I want to seperate the factions for discussion.

Bugs:
- Goblins lose their mine network in the RJ-BFME1 maps. Need to compensate for this loss.
- For the new Goblin archers, the faction color does not show under them
- Size of the Half-trolls? (They seem smaller especially against the goblin pikemen
Fixed - Duramlug slaughtered by pikemen


Suggestions:
- Remove Spider Riders and spiderlings and add wolves and wolf riders (Please discuss this one. While they are not tolkienesque I do not mind them at all)
- Remove the mount scorpion from Gorkil and maybe add another goblin hero
- Add cost back to the goblin fighters, decrease buildtime, & make the poison blades free

Edited by robnkarla, 15 July 2007 - 11:49 AM.

[Zyzzyva]

Well, this is really ambigious. It could have been an error in the patch, it could have been a random spasm in the game, or it could even be my computer, but suddenly, in the middle of a game vs medium arnor as goblins, the game froze. I think it was when my create a hero was built. Normally (or at least for me) the game sort of hiccups when the create a hero is built, and this seemed to be what was happening, except the game permantently froze, rather than for a few seconds. Whether this was me or the patch probably depends on if the 'hiccup' is normal for everyone. If so, than its either the game or the patch, if not its either my copy of the game or my computer. So, is a hiccup normal when a create a hero is built?

[robnkarla]

Well, this is really ambigious. It could have been an error in the patch, it could have been a random spasm in the game, or it could even be my computer, but suddenly, in the middle of a game vs medium arnor as goblins, the game froze. I think it was when my create a hero was built. Normally (or at least for me) the game sort of hiccups when the create a hero is built, and this seemed to be what was happening, except the game permantently froze, rather than for a few seconds. Whether this was me or the patch probably depends on if the 'hiccup' is normal for everyone. If so, than its either the game or the patch, if not its either my copy of the game or my computer. So, is a hiccup normal when a create a hero is built?

Was this on an inn map? I've seen this happen and I'm trying to pin it down.

[{IP}jimmyman]

yea the same happend for me with gondor when it was buitl on Mouths of the Entwash

[robnkarla]

Well, here is a bug I thought I'd point out to those playing goblins. It will be fixed this week-end, so now is the chance. The new dragon hero will gain to level 10 VERRYYY quickly. So heave fun playing around with his abilities easily while you still can!

Robert J.

[{IP}jimmyman]

yes ive just noticed that it was fun completely anhilating the enemy base fast

[Dalf32]

yea, he killed 1 bilder and went all the way up 2 lvl 10! haha, great fun. ghundor's pic in the palantir looks kinda happy tho. hes smilin a bit and it bothered me, not really a big deal tho. lol

and btw, i get the 'hiccup' wenever my CaH's r bilt 2, so ur not alone.

Edited by Dalf32, 03 July 2007 - 09:28 PM.

[Crashdoc]

Nothing big, but when selected, the new goblin archers upgradeable with poison don't show the faction color under them.

[Elendil the High]

is there anyone that has noticed the half-trolles seems smaller
i compared them a goblin horde and the half-troll were only a little bigger then the goblin

[Allathar]

Not exactly a bug, more a suggestion, but I'd VERY LIKE to delete the Spiderlings and spider riders from the gobs. They were never mentioned in the books, they're merely a product of EA's own twisted fantasy of ME, and they simply do not fit in Middle-Earth as we know it. Because that'd mean the Gobs lose their 'cavalry' you could add Angmars wolfs and wolf riders to the Gobs.

[Zyzzyva]

I noticed a few things while playing Goblins last. One thing was that Durmalug is completely slaughtered by pikemen. One group, taking down a 3000 cost hero!?!?! . My next thing is more a suggestion than a bug. I think goblin warriors should build alot faster, so a goblin player can really spam the enemy. It seems to me that goblins are at a disadvantage earlier on seeing as, although their troops are free, they build about as fast as other early game troops, and one on one they are no match at all vs other early game troops. By the time you can build other troops as defenses or build a couple goblin caves, the enemy already has a huge advantage. Of course, there is one option I havent tryed, which is to build multiple pits right off since you dont need resource buildings to make troops. Finally, I think that either not both mordor and goblins should have free troops, or they should be a different type of free troop. Otherwise, the factions are very similar. For example, you could have goblin warriors as free and speedy to build, but absolutely awful fighters. Then you could make orcs free and at least decent fighters, but slow to build. Otherwise I just dont see them as really being seperate factions early on, just two different late games. This is, of course, simply one option, and hey, for all I know, you could be already incorperating this Great job so far though!

EDIT: Well, I just played as mordor, and as I said above, orcs seem the same as goblins except for one difference.... this is that orcs are no more costly, no more slow to build, yet are supstancally stronger than goblins. The reason of this just occured to me. Goblins before were weaker because they cost less and because they had poison blades. Has the loss of poison blades and the equalization of cost been compensated by an increase in power? This may be why the goblin warriors are, to be completey frank, awful. Just some afterthoughts

Edited by Zyzzyva, 07 July 2007 - 11:15 PM.

[robnkarla]

Thank you!

For Duramlug - He's specialist armor has been increased some in the new release. Also, in 1.05.02 or .03 I'll be redoing some of the crush revenge weapons, lowering the non-forged blades damage. I've always viewed this as too high and it is one of the reason why the dragon goes down so easily.

The goblin warriors are in the process of changing. I'm really leaning to switching them back to a VERY cheap unit with free poison blades instead of a free unit and cheap poison blades. This will help them in some respects and will allow me to speed their spammability up.

Also, what are your starting resources? For goblins, the way they are laid out, using a cave->cave->pit->pit approach will let you spam the goblins more so than any other faction. Their movement speed is greater than orcs so you should be able to harass the best of any faction, this will be slightly changed with the cost of the goblins being increased. The economy will be hampered a little more.

As for the uniqueness, that is why I'm changing it up as well. They will be the cheap, fast, spammable, upgradable units, while mordor are the free, slightly stronger units. They both have the large group bonus which helps them out. But after those initial units, the factions changed a good deal especially with the early cave trolls. Adding the poison back as free will greatly enhance them as a unit as well as a buildtime increase, slightly.

Please provide more of this type of feedback, especially with the major balance changes coming tomorrow.

Robert J.

[Zyzzyva]

Sounds Good I started out playing with 4000 resources just to see the factions at their fullest, but Ive started playing with 1000 now. I ussally start with a barracks->resource->resource->resource->barracks/stables/etc with any faction until I get the hang of them, but it doesnt work out so well with goblins in 1.05.00. I usally end up getting goblins out at the same time as my enemy gets out ... say, a arnor basic infantry battalion.... and, well, lets just say that that doesnt work out too well. Ill try out the build you suggested. The Duramlug and poisoned blade stuff sounds good too. I like the idea of goblins costing a bit to buy, but having the poisoned blades back. In the books it always took the Misty Mountain goblins years to recover their strenght but Mordor just had army after army after army, so its accurate to them as well.

Edited by Zyzzyva, 08 July 2007 - 12:35 AM.

[Allathar]

Oh, and something not hard to do but I'm sure many people will like it: REMOVE GORKIL SCORPION MOUNT ABILITY. I hate it. There's nothing wrong with made-up heroes, but keep it true to the books. Nothing wrong with scorpions either, but wtf was EA thinking when they made a non-Tolkien hero RIDE A GIANT SCORPION?!

You could also do what SEE is planning to do, renaming Gorkil to the Great Goblin (the Goblin King from the Hobbit), and adding Bolg, son of Azog as hero along with his bodyguards.

Oh, and to be honest I'd like to see spider riders removed to since they are also as un-Tolkienish as can be. You could bring up Angmar's wolf riders to the Gob's instead, since in the Hobbit the Dwarves fought several wolf and wolf-rider armies of the Goblins.

[Ergopad]

I don't mind the riders. There WAS huge spiders in mirkwood, relatively near Moria. Didn't like too much wolf riders of Arnor and Mordor(!) since they should be Isengard's exclusively! And it's a more unique than all evil factions having the damn wolf riders. And if goblins lose their spiders then you have to change to symbol too

I agree with allathar about the renaming. Just I'd like to Gorkil renamed to Bolg, but Great Goblin is better than the original. It was a dumb thing from EA to pick a random name rather than take it from the books...

And I agree again with allathar about scorpion mount, even the spider mount would have been better.

[Allathar]

I don't mind the spiders too, but the spider RIDERS I do mind. It's no problem if Rob leaves it in-game, but it would be more true to the lore if wolfs and wolf-riders are used instead. Then keep spiders and spider-riders as summons instead. I mean, if you've read the hobbit, there's wolfs and goblin wolf riders all over it. And remember the battle of the Five Armies in the end? The gob's and wolves vs. Dale, Mirkwood Elves and Dwarves? Odd why EA didn't include wolves in the Gobbo's.

[Ergopad]

Well, I'm ok with goblin wolf riders, if arnor and mordor loses them.

[Allathar]

Think you mean Angmar

Mordor doesn't have to be able to purchase cavalry type of units - the dark hounds kinda serve this purpose already, and it would make them a more unique faction.

[Ergopad]

ooops! Yes, Angmar that is...

The trolls are kind of cavalry, as they suffer from specialist (pikemen) bonus damage too. Before rotwk, I never missed the cavalry when I played with Mordor. And Mordor are (or atleast were) the only faction with flying unit (fellbeasts).

Atleast, I'd like to have hound riders removed, the hounds (without riders) are ok. I would have no argue with the riders, if they would ride any other mount than wolf of anykind, even eeeeevil donkeys would be better!

Why not adding some more original beasts that trambles? How about Great Beast Riders (mini-mumakil)?

I just found out (on encyclopedia of arda), that there are (were?) cold-drakes too. How about changing angmar wolfriders into cold-drake riders (as cold creatures fit to angmar perfectly) and THEN changing the spiderriders into wolf riders?

Edited by Ergopad, 16 July 2007 - 06:58 PM.

[robnkarla]

First, I like the spider riders. They might not be tolkienesque, but I guess I am one of the few that actually like them. For the scorpion mount, yeah that is pretty wierd, and I have not thought about what it could change to. I mean, a spider mount or even a drake mount would make more sense in the terms of the faction. (But scorpions do have their uses.....)

So, for the scorpion mount, I'm going to leave it as is, but only until I find a better alternative. (Again, wishes I could have a modeler on board, or at least that I had more talent in 3d & textures). As for the name, while Gorkil does not fit, I'm about as confused with Azog as anything else, as he's been long dead compared to other WotR heroes, unless somehow the Goblins are a timeless faction. In that case, the Great Goblin ad Bolg are better choices

So for Gorkil, I hope at some point to give him a whole slew of changes, but he is a lower priority than other items so it will be in a future release.

Now as for the Hound Riders in Mordor, yes they need to be changed/removed. The Warg Riders in Isengard are where they belong and it should stay that way. My ideal for the Wargs were just as a placement until I can get something better. My wishlist - some type of "Monster Lair" where the dark creatures of Mordor can be created. The Hounds were meant to come with Dwar as a Nazgul. I would like to get other "Great Beasts", so we'll see what I can do....Long term - the hound riders are going to be gone and I'd like to replace the structure and the units will all be ridersless evil beasts used by Mordor.

I would like to see Mordor lose most of the "Cavalry" feel and be numerous orcs hordes, Single Trolls, Evil Beasts, Siege, & Heroes. Other ideas that have been thrown about - riderless fellbeasts, Morgul Horses, & others.