265 replies to this topic

[robnkarla]

Ah, I forgot to change the inn on the BFME1 style maps to the new inn system. This will be corrected in 1.05.02.

As for having the inn be buildable by the factions, I really would like to keep it the way it is as a bonus that is fought over by the different players. I'm not sure if I ever mentioned it, but for the regular maps I implemented the outer wall hub system. Basically, when you build a wall hub (at 800 cost) you can build it anywhere on the map. If you so desire, you should be able to build a wall around an inn and fortify your position. Walls will be getting a boost soon, so this will be more desirable than even now.

Also, you can build walled forward siege bases and other items, just thought I'd remind everyone of this option. (Also to test and make sure it works for everyone)

[Zyzzyva]

Two questions for Rob. Are the different inn alliances going to get more diverse? Because right now the alliances all have teh same pikemen archer swordsmen, which makes the discion of which to chose pretty elementary. Spam faction like goblins chose heavy fighters like isengard, and vice versa. And will War of the Ring be updated? Right now, you can only use old heros and old unit prices, etc.

[robnkarla]

I will be making the alliances a little more diverse in a couple of ways, but it depends on how many upgrades I can squeeze out of the game.

Ideally, each alliance between the factions should cost a different amount. Rohan ->Elves or Gondor -> Elves should be cheaper than Dwarves -> Elves for example. I'll also be looking at the base cost of the units and buildtimes. An Uruk fighter might be the strongest unit that is purchasable, so they might have a longer buildtime and buildcost increase. Isengard is general can be a better alliance then goblins or mordor, so the cost of the alliance might be more.

The buildcost and times will all be changing. To start in 1.05 I just put all the generic times and the original buildcosts. This will definitely change.

As for the diversification of units, etc. One thing I would love is to include as much diversification as possible. Ideally, I think it would be REALLY great if I could work out some deals with other mods, though I doubt it for some, where the alliances could also be from units of other mods. The more I am able to get help on this area, the more it can expand.

I would love in the end to have each faction have 3-4 unique alliances that they can form, but it is probably only a dream. I would need a lot of help from modelers and other mods to get this to it's full potential.

As for WotR? Yes, this will be completed to match the factions in the normal mode. WotR is one of my favorite areas and I'd like to improve this as much as possible.

Robert J.

Edited by robnkarla, 13 July 2007 - 08:17 PM.

[robnkarla]

Free to use, as long as you give proper credit of course

Well, I thought I'd at least let you know I check into the Edain mod. Looking into it, a good majority of the things used in the mod come from TEA, free models, and the like, which is all right by me, as I also need to rely on other work and try to give them credit as much as I possibly can(except there are some items used on the do not use list, but since I think the mod leader is Vapula they probably have permission.)

Anyway, I contacted them about a couple of things and they responded that for the items requested I could not use :( What is mentioned in their disclaimer is only in terms of tutorials and info in the forums, not the actual mod.

Just thought I'd let everyone know what they can and cannot use.

Edited by robnkarla, 15 July 2007 - 12:15 PM.

[fehik]

I've returned from vacation and I can test the mod for a week(than I'm off for another 4 days)

[Xingdao Fan]

War of the Ring doesn't seem to work correctly for the new factions.

I'll give some ideas for the army leaders. I think the number of leaders should go back to 3. So here they are:

Gondor: Aragorn, Boromir, Prince Imrahil
Elves: Elrond, Thranduil, Glorfindel
Dwarves: King Dain, Glóin, Prince Brand (if not, don't put Gimli in, I hate to see him as Leader)
Rohan: Theoden, Erkenbrand, Éomer (they are the third marshals, after all)
Isengard: Saruman, Lurtz, Uglúk or Sharkû
Goblins: Gorkil the Goblin King, Azog, Bolg or The Great Goblin (if you add either of them, that is. I don't like to see Shelob and Drogoth as leaders either)
Mordor: Witch-King, Mouth of Sauron, Gothmog
Angmar: Witch-King, Morgomir, Rogash
Arnor: (no suggestions for this one)
Evil Men: (I'm putting hero-ideas for this one) Owyvan of the Corsairs, Ovatha IV, Suladan the Black Serpent (The Black Serpent existed, but I'm not sure if the true name was Suladan)

If you want to me bring skill ideas for these last heroes I mentioned, ask.

Edited by Xingdao Fan, 14 July 2007 - 01:24 PM.

[fehik]

the orc pikeman can't be uprgaded with mordore upgrades, there are goblin uprgades, and the southern fief upragede is spelled, "Rohan Alliance"

[Xingdao Fan]

I have experienced various game.dat crashes lately.

It usually happens when I play Elves vs Angmar. I was playing Elves, I had a Medium Arnor ally, and I was playing against a Hard Mordor and a Hard Angmar. The game crashed after 5 or 10 minutes. This was in Anórien.

Also happened when I was playing Elves against a Brutal Angmar in Weathertop. The game crashed in under 5 minutes.

Both of these are maps with Inns. Won't it have something to do Angmar capturing them?

[Zyzzyva]

Ok, well, I just played a game that really made it clear to me that there is a problem with AI in fortresses such as Helm's Deep. They really need to use, if at all possible, their gates and small, invisble gates (I cannot remember their name at the moment) to most effect. This is why I was thinking this:

Well, today I was playing me (Isengard), and a hard Isengard, vs a Brutal Gondor in Helm's Deep itself. I wasnt sure how easy the game would be, so I tryed to hang back and let my ally grind itself to pieces against Helm's Deep's walls. Except that things didnt go according to plan!

I built two combo hordes of fighters and crossbowmen just to guard the gate, and then busied myself building an army and loads of resource buildings. I was quite confident that the Gondorians could kill my guard sooner or later, which was when I planned to attack over the Deeping Wall with beserkers and ladders. However, the enemy simply held open their gates for my ally while they sent builders and soldiers out to die!!

My ally predictably rushed in, and I sat back waiting for my ally to be crushed while my army assembled. But again, things didnt go as planned. The Gondorians had few soldiers, despite having almost ten minutes to build them, and my hard ally completely destroyed a brutal enemy!

Now surelly their was something here that had nothing to do with gates (my enemies strange lack of units, but even with that they still couldve held my ally with the gates. But with them opening and closing to let sucidal people out, my ally had no trouble getting in! Surely two combo hordes standing guard at the end of the caseway cannot even a battle between hard Isengard and a Brutal Gondor in Helm's Deep! So while some of it may have been Gondor, some may have been Isengard, and some may have been the Brutals strange tactics, but I lay most of the blame on the gates. My ally had not even gotten siege out yet when they won, and took the whole place with uruk-hai, lurtz, and a few warg packs!

PS: My builder also did something wierd on a Minas Tirith battle. It sat there and wiggled around for about a full minute instead of building an orc pit before it actually started working!

[Devon]

thats cause ea totally screwed up fortress ai. instead of defending it, what they do is act normally. iow, they rush you, which means going through the gate. and, the fortress faction only startes with about half as much money as you, and theres not enough room for resource buildings for more than 3 or so at 90% or higher, so i'm not suprised you crushed them .

[robnkarla]

Yeah, the Fortress AI is just horrible. They have a different .bse file to work with, but that is about it.

I'm not sure there is much I can do with the AI in fortresses. I will most definitely be playing with the .bse files at the very least to improve them. I'm also going to redo the starting resources. Instead of granting a static 2000 I'll be granting 2x the starting resources of the outside players. (So if you select 4000, the fortress gets 8000.) At the least this will hopefully help.

I will also to look to see if the gate has the AI code included. There is some VERY basic AI code that can be used, and some of the gate objects do not have it.

At the least, hopefully the maps will play a little better. IMO - if the AI is going to use the same tactics, there are a couple of tweaks I can do.

[Devon]

Instead of granting a static 2000 I'll be granting 2x the starting resources of the outside players. (So if you select 4000, the fortress gets 8000.) At the least this will hopefully help.

i think you meant the outside gets 8000 both those times, but i'm not sure.

[robnkarla]

I guess what I meant was:

Currently, the base is supposed to get 2000 on a default of 1000. That means that whoever has control of the fortress should get 2x the number of resources as those attacking.

The problem with the maps, EA hard-coded the 2000 instead of it being a variable on the starting resources selected. I like how most of it works when playing mp, except I do think that the starting resources for the defender need to be a multiple of what is selected (2x might be extreme in the 4000/8000, but at least 4000/5000 or 4000/6000.

[Devon]

really? when i play on a fortress and i start inside with resources set to 4000 i start with 2500 :/

[robnkarla]

Oops, I meant 2500 instead of 2000. The starting resources regardless of what you select is always going to 2500. (so that's 1.5x, which is excessive when you put it in context of 4000 (10000). Most of the gameplay is set around the 1000 starting for tournaments.

[Dalf32]

i think ur confusin urself ther rob, 4000*1.5 isnt 10000, its 6000. u wer doin 4000*2.5

[Ergopad]

Btw, have you managed to find the Amon Hen crash-bug and shadow texture bug in Moria?

And as a huge Rohan/Rohirrim lover, I'd like to know how big bonus pikemen gets against cavalry or how big penalty cavalry got against pikes?

Edited by Ergopad, 17 July 2007 - 08:08 PM.

[Vithar-133]

don't know if you noticed, but the capture buildings you added don't have tool tips, also as a suggestion, if it hasn't been, defensive towers should be buildable on the outside and inside of the castle maps, kind of like the farms.
Mordor castle AI built a large amt of battering rams, and had a lack of soldier units.

[Xingdao Fan]

Yes, I hope Mordor can use more units in the new versions. My easy Dwarves ally beat a Hard Mordor lol.

Oh and as for the Inn system, it's great to have the units and all, but as said before, they are pretty much the same. I revive my old suggestion of unique units for every map.

• Rivendell: Good factions can hire Rivendell Lancers, Evil factions can hire Goblin Warriors and Goblin Archers.
• Rohan: Good factions can hire Rohirrim Warriors, Evil factions can hire Uruk-Hai, Uruk Crossbowmen and Uruk Pikemen.
• Gap of Rohan: Good factions can hire Rohan Soldiers and Yeoman Archers, Evil factions can hire Uruk-Hai and Uruk-Hai Berserker.
• Osgilliath: Good factions can hire Gondor Soldiers and Gondor Archers, Evil factions can hire Mordor Orc Warriors and Mordor Orc Archers.
• Ithilien: Good factions can hire Ithilien Rangers, Evil factions can hire Haradrim Lancers (Spear Throwers).
• Harad: Good factions can hire Ithilien Rangers, Evil factions can hire Haradrim Warriors and Haradrim Archers.
• Umbar: Good factions can hire Gondor Soldiers and Gondor Archers, Evil factions can hire Corsairs of Umbar.
• Cair Andros: Good factions can hire Gondor Knights, Evil factions can hire Mountain Trolls.
  And so on...

I would also like the Inn units to be carried to the Living World, if possible.

Edited by Xingdao Fan, 20 July 2007 - 08:30 AM.

[Ergopad]

Not a bad idea unique inn recruitments on each map, some hard work though... And there should be atleast two kind of units available on each map.