662 replies to this topic

[Shikari]

Hi, well, we have a lot planned for the campaign, which is in the beta forum, so you wont have seen that. If you want to help out, would be great though, its a big project, so the more help the better. I can talk to you on msn about it. I'll send you a PM.

Edited by Shikari, 04 March 2008 - 04:45 PM.

[CIL]

In Helm's Deep, it doesn't seem like there are enough Elves that come in following Haldir. I think the numbers should be made more realistic (around 200-500 elves, 50-60 pre-existing Rohirrim, thousands of Uruks, less balistas).

[Devon]

Realistic would be 10000 uruks, 300 or so rohan units (possibly more), and maybe 100 or so elves.

I guess my point is it doesn't have to be that realistic, and although you there should be more elves than haldir brings, you can just get them from the archery range if you want.

Edited by YodaWarrior, 06 March 2008 - 08:20 PM.

[Grizzlez]

Well if you need some scripting done, you only have to ask.

[Dalf32]

we cant get really realistic because it would then be impossible to do any of the sieges (minas tirith had over 100,000 orcs and all of the MoTE). i have no problem with getting a bit more realistic of course, but we have to make sure we dont mess up the difficulty. i was pleased the first time i played helms deep that i was very close to losing

Edited by Dalf32, 06 March 2008 - 09:01 PM.

[Grizzlez]

In my experience increasing the number of hordes is very bad, however increasing the horde size to contain more units doesn't cause lag nearly as much as adding more seperate hordes. To make things more realistic double horde sizes because then its not 10 hordes being controlled for instance-only 5. The number is the same, but the hordes are fewer and so run better.

[CIL]

Well, at least shrink the size of the Helm's Deep walls... There just aren't enough elves to cover the whole thing. And the amount of siege machines... too many, and what they do is just break through my gate with no way for me to stop them, then they go up and start blasting away at my own stuff. Rohan has no siege weapons or anything to counter them with. I only saw about 4 of the balistas in the movie and there are somewhere around 10-20 in this. By way of hordes, I only meant enough elves to cover the wall, a few Yeomen archers and spear throwers to cover the gate and about 3000-5000 uruks over the duration of the siege (fewer siege machines, too). It's not that I'm not pleased with the overall mission, it's just that I don't like having too few units to cover the wall and being torn apart by siege machines without having ANY way to fight them off. I know that there were no catapults in Helm's deep but it would be nice to increase the range of the Elven archers or Legolas so that I have a chance of not having everything completely obliterated BEFORE my enemy's hordes get inside the gates (because about 10 balistas go up to my gate and fire at it far enough away so that the Yeoman, Legolas and the Elves cannot reach them). One more flaw: Haldir walks facing in the same direction, no matter what way you tell him to go. He moonwalks unless you tell him to get in formation, which only switches the way he faces. He moves but faces the same direction when his whole body would usally turn. This is in Helm's Deep campaign mission only. Yes, it does affect how he fights as well. He is slower to turn around and fire his bow or cut Uruks up with his sword. Also, Yoda, I tried to get them from the archery range but it takes FOREVER.... Way too long.

Edited by Crazy Intellectual Liberal, 06 March 2008 - 10:17 PM.

[Dalf32]

you should be building more units as soon as the mission starts and you hsould not stop until your production buildings are gone; in which case you should build more in the keep
you must use all of your units and you should be able to, at least when i did it i was, cover the entire deeping wall as well as the walls above the gate.

once again, i didnt find any real problems other than units on walls being a major pain when i played it, but it might just be me.

[CIL]

Thing is, I did that, but when the balistas come, they kill all my people.. it is so annoying.. then they break the gate. I have everything in full production but still managed to lose several times (I did it on brutal, if it were on easy, it would have been sheer humiliation).

[Scryer]

Thing is, I did that, but when the balistas come, they kill all my people.. it is so annoying.. then they break the gate. I have everything in full production but still managed to lose several times (I did it on brutal, if it were on easy, it would have been sheer humiliation).

As much as I like the risk of losing against my enemy in Helm's Deep, I find that the Battering Rams are way to strong against archers as well. The ballistas are fine for me, because I just retreat my archers from the walls, and wait for the enemy to break through. In doing this, they sometimes send in their ballistas. And once you clean up the rest of the ballistas, and if you've built unit production buildings at the top level, then you pretty much have the rest of the game in the bag. If you find your horse heroes dying off too quickly, then dismount them. I know that whenever I play this level, my frail Theoden likes to ride out in the middle of everyone and die.....

One thing that I would like to see done with both of the capaigns (evil and good) is a flow of events happening at the same time. By this I mean that after you're done Moria, you'd play Rivendell (because it was attacked pretty much after they left) and then you'd play Lothlorien, then the Iron Hills, Westfold, etc. I'd just like to have the feeling that things were happening at the same time in the campaign. I also believe that a lot of other people would like to see this too.

Now, I know that this might not be possible. But I would like to see the Osgiliath level done in two parts. One part could be when Frodo and Sam come, and of course you have to have them (and Faramir) survive while repelling orc siege at the same time. Before I go on, I mentioned before in this thread that I would like to see the Anduin river that divides this city a lot deeper so that you could send in unit-carrying ships to the other side. I also suggested that there should be destructible bridges. I also want to suggest that once the bridges are destroyed, either you or the enemy can choose to rebuild it for a low amount of resources. I also suggest more destructible buildings (like towers that fall on units).

Anyways, I know that this wouldn't be following the books or any lore, but you could play one part of the battle of Osgiliath on the east side of the city and the second part could be on the west side of the city - only a lot harder. The first part would be played afer the Battle of Helm's Deep. And the second part could be played after one of the elve's/dwarve's level in the campaign - which would occur after the Ithilien level of course (I'm talking about the one where you had to find rangers and set them up at ambush points).

And that's all I have for today.

Edited by Scryer, 08 March 2008 - 06:24 PM.

[Myrdin]

i think, even if we want to hold onto books and movies, there are still some numb places, that can be filled with full fiction non linear missions, that would end soo that you have feeling like " i see, soo thats what happened before they got to lothorien " or something like that.

for example a mission for evil, when faramir ambushed the haradrim, taking frodo sam hostage. it could be like " Escort the mumakils to some random point on the map, after this you get haradrim palace, next objective - train units and repel the rangers attack on your mumakils, at least 3 mumakils must survive.

with adding game speeches, and some ploit, it could be interesting mission ( i think something like this was in BFME1, but you played the rangers, . . . soo in basic this would be the same, but you would be playing on the oposite side )

and many non linear " unknown " missions could fill the book events. Even tolkien has left many " freeimaginable " stuff. Just read some forums, where people speak about everything imaginable, what could happen after this and that

[Scryer]

i think, even if we want to hold onto books and movies, there are still some numb places, that can be filled with full fiction non linear missions, that would end soo that you have feeling like " i see, soo thats what happened before they got to lothorien " or something like that.

for example a mission for evil, when faramir ambushed the haradrim, taking frodo sam hostage. it could be like " Escort the mumakils to some random point on the map, after this you get haradrim palace, next objective - train units and repel the rangers attack on your mumakils, at least 3 mumakils must survive.

with adding game speeches, and some ploit, it could be interesting mission ( i think something like this was in BFME1, but you played the rangers, . . . soo in basic this would be the same, but you would be playing on the oposite side )

and many non linear " unknown " missions could fill the book events. Even tolkien has left many " freeimaginable " stuff. Just read some forums, where people speak about everything imaginable, what could happen after this and that

I honestly can say that I agree with you. I would love to see Rhun attack the nearby dwarves. I would also like to see an assault on Minas Morgul (so that you can build an army). I would just hate to see stuff happening in the campaign that wouldn't make sense.

I have an idea for the mission where Mordor hires MOTE to fight for them (anyone remember that from BFME1?):

-Basically this involves an inn at level 1 with the Harad allegiance purchased.

-You start off with an orc force with either Gothmog or the Mouth of Sauron (let the modders choose this) in Near/Far Harad (once again, I'll let the modders choose this).

-Your Mordor base consists of a couple of slaughterhouses, a level 2 Orc Pit, an armoury, Siege Factory, and a Citadel plus the Inn.

-There are 4 camps of Haradrim on the map.

-The goal would be to destroy all 4 camps. Each time you destroy camp, your Inn gains a couple of levels. And you can hire more haradrim units. This gives the play the sense that they are hiring Harad to fight for them.

*More can be done with this idea, so feel free to add on or critique it* I think that it would be nice if the Inns were a more important part of the campaign rather than just a building that you can create new units from.

[CIL]

Thing is, I did that, but when the balistas come, they kill all my people.. it is so annoying.. then they break the gate. I have everything in full production but still managed to lose several times (I did it on brutal, if it were on easy, it would have been sheer humiliation).

As much as I like the risk of losing against my enemy in Helm's Deep, I find that the Battering Rams are way to strong against archers as well. The ballistas are fine for me, because I just retreat my archers from the walls, and wait for the enemy to break through. In doing this, they sometimes send in their ballistas. And once you clean up the rest of the ballistas, and if you've built unit production buildings at the top level, then you pretty much have the rest of the game in the bag. If you find your horse heroes dying off too quickly, then dismount them. I know that whenever I play this level, my frail Theoden likes to ride out in the middle of everyone and die.....

One thing that I would like to see done with both of the capaigns (evil and good) is a flow of events happening at the same time. By this I mean that after you're done Moria, you'd play Rivendell (because it was attacked pretty much after they left) and then you'd play Lothlorien, then the Iron Hills, Westfold, etc. I'd just like to have the feeling that things were happening at the same time in the campaign. I also believe that a lot of other people would like to see this too.

Now, I know that this might not be possible. But I would like to see the Osgiliath level done in two parts. One part could be when Frodo and Sam come, and of course you have to have them (and Faramir) survive while repelling orc siege at the same time. Before I go on, I mentioned before in this thread that I would like to see the Anduin river that divides this city a lot deeper so that you could send in unit-carrying ships to the other side. I also suggested that there should be destructible bridges. I also want to suggest that once the bridges are destroyed, either you or the enemy can choose to rebuild it for a low amount of resources. I also suggest more destructible buildings (like towers that fall on units).

Anyways, I know that this wouldn't be following the books or any lore, but you could play one part of the battle of Osgiliath on the east side of the city and the second part could be on the west side of the city - only a lot harder. The first part would be played afer the Battle of Helm's Deep. And the second part could be played after one of the elve's/dwarve's level in the campaign - which would occur after the Ithilien level of course (I'm talking about the one where you had to find rangers and set them up at ambush points).

And that's all I have for today.

The thing is that the Balistas always (for some reason) target the top level and can kill practically everything there. I love being on the brink of loss, which is easy to accomplish, but unrealistic numbers of balistas are annoying as well. Also, I believe I have said this before (but nobody listened), Haldir faces right unless he is set in a formation or attacks an enemy. In other words, you tell him to go up, he will still face right. Tell him to go back to the area he entered Helm's Deep out of, he will just moonwalk. This is the most annoying part of the battle because he also rotates slower when moving to attack multiple foes, both with bow and blade.

Edited by Crazy Intellectual Liberal, 09 March 2008 - 09:07 PM.

[Myrdin]

according to movie, if you count there were just 3 balistas ( if you wish i can give link to the scene, where the uruks pull ropes, to rase the long ledders ), in game is around 7+

[Dalf32]

you also must think that if there were only 3 in game, it would be way too easy. if you are really having issues with the ballistas (especially the first ones that come) try sending out cavalry because they have a relatively easy time with ballistas.

i like the idea of controlling mote as an evil mission (ithilien) but since we are planning to have 2 linear campaigns (evil and good) we neednt choose between them so tahts good news i guess!

scryer: i love it! great idea, i always liked that mission from bfme1. your inn idea sounds awesome. but perhaps you could either gain another inn when you defeat each camp (would be near the defeated camp) or gain a mote builder to increase the feeling of the acquisition of mtoe alegiance.

[Scryer]

you also must think that if there were only 3 in game, it would be way too easy. if you are really having issues with the ballistas (especially the first ones that come) try sending out cavalry because they have a relatively easy time with ballistas.

i like the idea of controlling mote as an evil mission (ithilien) but since we are planning to have 2 linear campaigns (evil and good) we neednt choose between them so tahts good news i guess!

scryer: i love it! great idea, i always liked that mission from bfme1. your inn idea sounds awesome. but perhaps you could either gain another inn when you defeat each camp (would be near the defeated camp) or gain a mote builder to increase the feeling of the acquisition of mtoe alegiance.

I like the MOTE builder idea, so long as he can only build a limited amount of buildings. And after you destroy a couple of more camps, he can build more structures. I think that the mission could be in Far Harad because that could be where the Haradrim's capial city could be. Then there could be a mission in Near Harad to push the Gondorians out of the region.

There could also be mission in Umbar where you have to build up a Corsair Army and fight in a huge sea-battle. My idea for this would be similar to my Inn "Hire the MOTE" mission. But instead you only have to defeat one camp, and then you have to defend from a huge fleet of ships. I don't know..... These are just some campaign ideas to play around with.

I would really like to play the MOTE mission (or atleast where Mordor hires MOTE) during the time where Isengard is invading Rohan. I don't know about you guys but I really hated the 'faction-switch' that happened in BFME1, after you win at Helm's Deep.

Edited by Scryer, 10 March 2008 - 01:48 AM.

[CIL]

No delete option, so this has to stay... sorry..

Edited by Crazy Intellectual Liberal, 10 March 2008 - 05:13 AM.

[CIL]

Also, I find it strange that the conversation I am engaging in has transformed from numbers to this...

[Myrdin]

the world is weird eh

[Dalf32]

yes, definetly limit the number of available mote buildings from the builder.
i agree with the staggering of the missions (nix the switch). would make much more sense and would give less of a 2-part campaign feel.