457 replies to this topic

[SovietSoldier]

Okay,this is what i meant:
give 1 ability to merry and pippin:

1)for merry,you should give him an ability called:
Nazgul Bane:this ability improves Merry's strength against Nazgul

2)for pippin give him an ability called:
Trolls Bane:this ability improves Pippin's strength against trolls.

[Mordor Slayer]

He was talking to the poster above him . And those are good ideas, in fact I think they're already on the list (not sure).

[Nazgûl]

Yes SS I meant the other poster, that posted before me...

The three assaults on Lothlorien? The Battle Under the Trees? The siege of Dul Guldor?

Makes no scense?

[SovietSoldier]

the battle under the trees?what may that be?

[Arthadan]

There are two units I'm not comfortable with in the Elven faction. I know you won't change them just because of me, but let me expose my reasons.

- Hobbits: they don't live near Elves, they are not fighters, they never fought with Elves (even in the films!)... They just don't fit within this faction. As an early units for Elves, I'd go for Elven militia, which IMO makes plenty of sense because the Elves were a dwindle people with few children and immortal (plenty of time to receive at least some basic military training and a good reason to do so).

- Ents: the only battle the fought was the taking of Isengard and some help in the Helm's Deep. So, it seems they will fit better with the upcoming Rohan faction Anyway, stick them in the Elven faction just because they're trees doesn't seem quite reasanoble with me. On the other hand, I agree Elves and normal siege machines doesn't fit, so I proppose "demolishing" powers for some Elven Heroes at high level (Galadriel, Elrond) and fire arrows to damage buildings for elven Units (so you can choose if you want to upgrade a bow-using unit to cause greater damage to another units with actual improved arrows or you want to make them a "siege" unit with fire arrows).

I think it wouldn't need a lot of work (maybe "normal" Galadriel could get a non-moving version of the Ring-Hero Galadriel's storm, with shorter duration and greater damage to buildings and Elrond a increased range and damaged for his water horses).

Does it worth a thought?

Edited by Arthadan, 18 September 2008 - 01:29 PM.

[Rhodin]

Arthadan, your kinda wrong in both of your arguments. First of all, hobbits might not have faught. But Merry and Pippin took part in the destruction of Isengard, sitting on treebeards shoulders...just like in SEE. And Rohan is not an "upcoming faction" as Naz have said so many times in this forum...I think it's probably like...a thousand times now. And if you could find a more suitable faction for the ents, I would be interested in hearing of it.

Edited by Rhodin, 18 September 2008 - 01:43 PM.

[av8r]

Hobbits fought back at the Shire when they ran Sauruman out of it. Wasnt in the movie but in the movie they skipped it, as the events in the movie showed them returning to the Shire and then Frodo boarding the ship at Grey Havens. The fighting was between those two events. merry and Pippin were also at MT

Ents and elves were friends.

[Rhodin]

Yeah, I know all that...but that was'nt the point now was it?

[av8r]

I didnt miss your point. my post was not to you but the one above yours I guess you missed my point

[Nazgûl]

- Hobbits are with Elves because 1) I want them in game, and 2) they fit best with elves and 3) cause Men faction do NOT need to grow even further...
- Ents will stay with Elves beacuse I imagine that the Elves would think wery highly of the Ents, and the other way around. I don't see Ents fitting better with Rohan than Elves. And I think Ents are a perfect Siege unit for the Elves. I don't want to increase the need of magic...
- Rohan is not an upcoming faction indeed. However, as stated in the Rohan thread, it MIGHT be... later on. Since Rohan has grown so much now. But this won't happen for Beta 4.7, if ever. We'll see.

[Arthadan]

Arthadan, your kinda wrong in both of your arguments. First of all, hobbits might not have faught. But Merry and Pippin took part in the destruction of Isengard, sitting on treebeards shoulders...just like in SEE. And Rohan is not an "upcoming faction" as Naz have said so many times in this forum...I think it's probably like...a thousand times now. And if you could find a more suitable faction for the ents, I would be interested in hearing of it.

Rhodin, let me clarify my arguments then, I meant no Hobbit army or military contigent fought with Elves.

About Rohan faction, last comments in that thread by Nazgûl suggest he may change his mind and make it a separate faction in the long term.

Hobbits fought back at the Shire when they ran Sauruman out of it. Wasnt in the movie but in the movie they skipped it, as the events in the movie showed them returning to the Shire and then Frodo boarding the ship at Grey Havens. The fighting was between those two events. merry and Pippin were also at MT

Ents and elves were friends.

Yes, Hobbits citizens fought to defend their homes, but again we are nor speaking about an army fighting allied with Elves.

About Elvish friendship with ents, I would love to see some quotes. As far as I know, they were nothing more than neighbours with no relation between them.


Regarding Nazgûl's answer, well... I had to try!

Edited by Arthadan, 18 September 2008 - 06:22 PM.

[Nazgûl]

If nothing else: Elves have Ent expansions in the fortress, modeled to fit that fortress. I would never try to fiddle with that, so they're kinda bound to the Eleven faction, sorry We'll be adding vigilant Ents to the Elven walls too...

[av8r]

Yes, Hobbits citizens fought to defend their homes, but again we are nor speaking about an army fighting allied with Elves.

About Elvish friendship with ents, I would love to see some quotes. As far as I know, they were nothing more than neighbours with no relation between them

Re: Hobbits. if you are using the term army to justify whether they should be in the game or not, thats sort of nit-picky, I think. There were many places in movies and books where citizens took up arms to fight. It was one of Tolkeins personal themes. Helms Deep, Minas Tirith...so they add to the game IMO

Ents and Elves: not finding you quotes; go read some, start with the Silmarillion.

[Arthadan]

Re: Hobbits. if you are using the term army to justify whether they should be in the game or not, thats sort of nit-picky, I think. There were many places in movies and books where citizens took up arms to fight. It was one of Tolkeins personal themes. Helms Deep, Minas Tirith...so they add to the game IMO

Ents and Elves: not finding you quotes; go read some, start with the Silmarillion.

Anyway my point is they only fought to defend their very own homes (oh, yes and they sent a small contigent of archers to defend Fornost, although Tolkien didn't clarify if it was just a tale or it was real).

About Elves and ents only quote in the Silmarillion is when they fought with Berem against the Dwarves to avenge Thingol's death, c. 502 in the First Age when ents were more in number and far more active (unlike late Third Age)

If nothing else: Elves have Ent expansions in the fortress, modeled to fit that fortress. I would never try to fiddle with that, so they're kinda bound to the Eleven faction, sorry We'll be adding vigilant Ents to the Elven walls too...

Yes but that's 100% "made in EA", exactly as the spider goblins you have removed... No elven fortress was ever protected by ents, as their purpose was to protect the forests of Middle-earth, not Elves. You know you are begining to envision a nice elven ballista like those used in the siege of Gondolin...

Edited by Arthadan, 18 September 2008 - 08:34 PM.

[av8r]

I think this is getting off topic; I hate pissy discussions about Tolkeins work and how it relates to the game;

The point is the Hobbits were ready to fight when necessary. That is all. Thats how it is in the game. Its how it made it into the game

Great you did a search for a quote but you missed much by limiting yourself. if you've read thru Tolkiens works you would know, without question, the relationship the Ents and Elves had, thats all. It's not even questionable. It's in the movie The Two Towers (this mod is based on the movies), and written in The Two Towers, The Silmarillion, The Lost Tales...

[SovietSoldier]

what do you want as a siege weapon,Arthadan?the Ents were better friends with the elves than any other race.Do you want the Ents fighting with the Men of the West?


and Nazgul,I dislike Galadriel.you cant have her slap enemies and kick them,thats the part I hate about her.

Edited by SovietSoldier, 19 September 2008 - 03:11 AM.

[Grig]

He kind of has to since the only animation for her fighting is the slapping and kicking...

[Nazgûl]

Yes... ^

[Mordor Slayer]

Maybe she can be just a support hero, without an ability to attack? She did participate in battles (battle of Dol Guldur) but she never actually 'fought', in this case she just destroyed the foundations of the fortress. There are plenty of support spells available .

[Nazgûl]

Yeah, I want Galadriel to be powerful, bt not a melee unit. She should fight with magic =) And when using the strongest spell, she could shift model =)