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Lothlórien (Elven) faction

Started by Nazgûl, Jul 11 2007 05:18 PM

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#361 Guest_Arthadan_not_logged_in_*

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 01:43 AM

I think this is getting off topic; I hate pissy discussions about Tolkeins work and how it relates to the game;

The point is the Hobbits were ready to fight when necessary. That is all. Thats how it is in the game. Its how it made it into the game

Great you did a search for a quote but you missed much by limiting yourself. if you've read thru Tolkiens works you would know, without question, the relationship the Ents and Elves had, thats all. It's not even questionable. It's in the movie The Two Towers (this mod is based on the movies), and written in The Two Towers, The Silmarillion, The Lost Tales...

Excuse me, I thought we are talking about a mod who use the books to cover the gaps in the movies based on "Tolkeins" books....

I'm afraid you are quite wrong in your afirmation, because I have already read several times all Tolkien's books, including History of Middle Earth collection. Please prove me wrong with Tolkien's quotes if you ever can. I do know what I'm speaking about.

How many times did ents fought with elves? One in all ME history, exactly in the First Age roughly 6500 years before the War of the Ring.

How many times did Hobbits fought with Elves? None.

And please tell me when exactly in the Two Towers film you see your unquestionable relationship between Elves and Ents. As far as I know is Gandalf who brings them to help to Helm's Deep just as in the books.

Should I add fancy smileys now?

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#362 Guest_Arthadan_not_logged_in_*

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 01:50 AM

what do you want as a siege weapon,Arthadan?the Ents were better friends with the elves than any other race.Do you want the Ents fighting with the Men of the West?

and Nazgul,I dislike Galadriel.you cant have her slap enemies and kick them,thats the part I hate about her.

No, they weren't. If you mean as "best friends" the race which fought most battles with them then you mean Men, as ents only fought once with them. That's why I would go for fire arrows for Elvish siege, since ents do not fit just as siege machines.

If we stick to the films and so to battles in late Third Age, then ents fought alone in Isengard and ents fougt in Helm's Deep and that's all. So if I have to pick a faction for them, it would be Rohan (if it ever appear as a separate faction in this mod).

I do agree with you Galadrie'sl kicking attacak is quite wrong. I can't imagine her doing so.

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#363 Guest_Arthadan_not_logged_in_*

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 01:53 AM

Maybe she can be just a support hero, without an ability to attack? She did participate in battles (battle of Dol Guldur) but she never actually 'fought', in this case she just destroyed the foundations of the fortress. There are plenty of support spells available .

Since we don't now her exact role in the siege of Do Guldur, she could a rather good choice for a "siege Hero" for the Elven fation.

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#364 Guest_Arthadan_not_lgged_in_*

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 01:59 AM

Yeah, I want Galadriel to be powerful, bt not a melee unit. She should fight with magic =) And when using the strongest spell, she could shift model =)

What about having her as a weak melee Hero, but with amazing structure-destroying powers? She would need protection while casting her spells so an Elven player would need infantry units which are seldom used in a late siege game. I think it would make this faction special. Elrond could also be a "siege Hero" better in melee than Galariel but not as good as her damaging structures.

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#365 av8r

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 02:05 AM

(in the movie and books) Legolas said the elves were waking up the trees and teaching them to speak and they conversed with the trees and ents, but then they turned thier attention to Lothlorien, Mirkwood, etc. and Fangorn was forgotten. Treebeard said that as well. it was the elves that walked amongst the trees and were their friends along with the Wizards.
The trees went to Helms Deep. The Ents went to Isengard. No man, wizard, dwarf or elf told them (Ents or Trees) to go to either place to fight.
I am leaving this discussion as it has gotten so far off the thread topic of Nazguls mod, its ridiculous. Post your knowledge, my dear Arthadan.

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#366 Nazgûl

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 02:05 AM

Don't fight guys... be nice

I actually like having Lore experts around as I DO want to follow the books if possible, in those aspects not covered in the movies. BUT - my own "directing" comes first (just like Jackson's in the movies), and I just happen to like Ents with Elves.. if nothing else cause I won't venture into remodling of the Elven fortress and expansions, and I can't really imagine them with seige units like catapults.

But on other notes I like to use the books to fill in the gaps yes =)

Btw: long ago I had Celeborn as a slave unit for Galadriel. To be her melee protection, while she fights with magic. Perhaps I should put that back in, if it will work with the AI...

Edited by Nazgûl, 20 September 2008 - 02:07 AM.

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#367 av8r

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 02:14 AM

No, they weren't. If you mean as "best friends" the race which fought most battles with them then you mean Men, as ents only fought once with them. That's why I would go for fire arrows for Elvish siege, since ents do not fit just as siege machines.
If we stick to the films and so to battles in late Third Age, then ents fought alone in Isengard and ents fougt in Helm's Deep and that's all. So if I have to pick a faction for them, it would be Rohan (if it ever appear as a separate faction in this mod).

Rohan and the Rohirrim feared Fangorn and were afraid of the Trees and Ents. The Rohirrim felt strongly towards the elves due to the elves' friendship with the trees and also because of Galadriel and Lothlorien, the rohirrim thought her to be a sorceress.

The ents attacked Isen. The trees waited at the Ent Wash for the uruks to retreat, they didnt attack Helms Deep. :rolleyes:

Ents and Rohan? Why not combine Moria with the Dwarves

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#368 av8r

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 02:15 AM

Don't fight guys... be nice

OOPS too late didnt see your post LOL

well dang. I hope I still get Christmas cards from all you guys :rolleyes:

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#369 Guest_Athadan_not_logged_in_*

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 02:15 AM

(in the movie and books) Legolas said the elves were waking up the trees and teaching them to speak and they conversed with the trees and ents, but then they turned thier attention to Lothlorien, Mirkwood, etc. and Fangorn was forgotten. Treebeard said that as well. it was the elves that walked amongst the trees and were their friends along with the Wizards.
The trees went to Helms Deep. The Ents went to Isengard. No man, wizard, dwarf or elf told them (Ents or Trees) to go to either place to fight.
I am leaving this discussion as it has gotten so far off the thread topic of Nazguls mod, its ridiculous. Post your knowledge, my dear Arthadan.

Ents were created by Yavanna before the Elves ever awoke my dear friend and there is not a single Tolkien whick support the film's quote you are using and since Entish language was far different from Elvish ones is highly unlikely the Elves taught the ents to speak.

(fancy smiley just for you, my friend).

You afirm "it was the elves that walked amongst the trees and were their friends along with the Wizards" of course with no Tolkien quote. The only friend Treeberad mention is Saruman before turning to evil and no Elf.

However, I do agree with you this discussion is going off topic and I stop it right now.

But please, I beg you, do read the books. You will discover many things.

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#370 Guest_Arthadan_not_logged_in_*

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 02:20 AM

Rohan and the Rohirrim feared Fangorn and were afraid of the Trees and Ents. The Rohirrim felt strongly towards the elves due to the elves' friendship with the trees and also because of Galadriel and Lothlorien, the rohirrim thought her to be a sorceress.

The ents attacked Isen. The trees waited at the Ent Wash for the uruks to retreat, they didnt attack Helms Deep.

Ents and Rohan? Why not combine Moria with the Dwarves

I said "if I have to choose a faction". The only battle in late Third Age the ents didn't fought alone was when they killed the retreating Saruman's forces in Helm's Deep. I do agree they weren't popular among the Rohirrim, but it happens they fought a battle with then (kind of) both in the movies and in the books.

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#371 SovietSoldier

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 02:28 AM

if you see the Special Extended Edition,when the Rohirrim were about to enter the forest after they slaughtered the uruks so they can kill the whole army,Eomer told them to stay away from the woods.Of course Rohirrim don't want to cooperate.They fear the Ents themselves.

What is the motherland,when you know you weren't born of land?

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#372 Guest_Arthadan_not_logged_in_*

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 02:28 AM

Don't fight guys... be nice

I actually like having Lore experts around as I DO want to follow the books if possible, in those aspects not covered in the movies. BUT - my own "directing" comes first (just like Jackson's in the movies), and I just happen to like Ents with Elves.. if nothing else cause I won't venture into remodling of the Elven fortress and expansions, and I can't really imagine them with seige units like catapults.

But on other notes I like to use the books to fill in the gaps yes =)

Btw: long ago I had Celeborn as a slave unit for Galadriel. To be her melee protection, while she fights with magic. Perhaps I should put that back in, if it will work with the AI...

I do respect and admire the work you and the team you have achieved so far. Your mod, your rules... no discussion about that.

I just wanted to point some details which I don't find fitting with the canon, but I will enjoy this marvellous mod with or without ents and hobbits allied with Elves.

However, if you are going to give Galadriel a bodyguard, I think he should be her husband Celeborn rather than Círdan.

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#373 SovietSoldier

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 02:28 AM

if you see the Special Extended Edition,when the Rohirrim were about to enter the forest after they slaughtered the uruks so they can kill the whole army,Eomer told them to stay away from the woods.Of course Rohirrim don't want to cooperate.They fear the Ents themselves.

What is the motherland,when you know you weren't born of land?

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#374 Nazgûl

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 02:34 AM

However, if you are going to give Galadriel a bodyguard, I think he should be her husband Celeborn rather than Círdan.

That's whay I had Celeborn and not Cirdan, as stated above ^

A better way could be a horde of Galadhrim maybe? =)

EDIT: DO log in though... I hate those Guest posts =p

Edited by Nazgûl, 20 September 2008 - 02:35 AM.

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#375 elbenmensch

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 07:21 AM

However, if you are going to give Galadriel a bodyguard, I think he should be her husband Celeborn rather than Círdan.

That's whay I had Celeborn and not Cirdan, as stated above ^
A better way could be a horde of Galadhrim maybe? =)

EDIT: DO log in though... I hate those Guest posts =p

Yeah that would be cool,too but since Celeborn is just a copy of elrond.it would be much better to hve him with galadrial(or galadrieldont know what ot os in the english version exactly :( )

So and now to that ent discussion:they were there before the elves,but the elves did teach them speaking.But after that they lost contact to any other beings,except saruman.(so y not ennts with isengard ,hehe

)

If you really want them as a buildable unit,they should stay with the elves,because they suit the most there,even if they dont really fit there either.

But i dont like hobbits for elves...hobbits never got to know elves ,except for that 4 from the fellowship.

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#376 Guest_Predi_*

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 08:26 AM

I think the Ents are perfect for elven siege units. They are in perfect harmony

An elven ballista wouldn't fit in, but the Ents do, whatever the lore say. It's called creators freedom.

Besides if the elves had no real siege weapon, then that would be unbalanced. As for the hobbits, they are just a laugh, I never liked them. The four heroes(+Bilbo) are okay but as units... :rolleyes:

And Galadriel: the pairing with Celeborn is a good idea, they already a pair, why not fight just like that (like I said when the Elladan/Elrohir discussion went on)
But I think this conversation is pointless now, so please Nazgul put an end to it :crazed:

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#377 verdantabyss

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Posted 24 September 2008 - 10:43 AM

I think the elven archers need to have their damage output boosted a bit - it takes forever for them to bring down enemy units - in the movies they were taking enemies down with 1-2 hits - maybe you should increase the power a bit?

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#378 Nazgûl

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Posted 24 September 2008 - 06:07 PM

Balance is not done yet =p

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#379 Prince of the Dark Forest

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 08:18 PM

Hi all, I just want to say- about the changing the name of the Elves to Lorien- I don't think it would be that good.
I mean, though the majority of elves are lothlorien, we have mirkwood and Rivendell etc. too. What's wrong with just 'Elves'

I have similar views about some of the other name changes- Men of the West to Gondor (even though half of the buildings and units are of Rohan), Dwarves to Erebor and Goblins to Moria (Not all goblins are from Moria, nor are spiderlings, giants etc.), I think unless all of the units are of one origin (e.g. Isengard) we shouldn't change their name to a particular place.

-Prince of Mirkwood

Ignited into the world in a flash of lightning, it gleams faintly in the heart of its mother, wood. It begins as an ember, a mere wisp of heat and colour. Its chance of survival at this critical moment is minute, yet it fights on, against the unforgiving cold, against the depths of night and against its mortal enemy: rain.

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#380 Lauri

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 09:12 PM

The point of having a faction's name the same as a realm or city, is, well... it's cooler IMO :shiftee:

Having the major part of the faction from one place is good enough to call it that

If it would be Dwarves, Men of the West, Elves and Goblins, we could have just had Evil Men, Orcs and Uruks...
But no, Dwarves have men, Men of the West have wizards, Elves has... horses, Goblins has giants and spiders (as you said yourself), Evil Men have mumakils, Orcs have uruks and ringwraiths and trolls and ect, Uruks have wizards and wormtounges...
See my point?

Dwarves are dwarves, yes they could have had that name... Elves could have had the name too.. But they are dull, aren't they? :shiftee:

But Men of the West is wrong, as there are many more men in the West than Rohan and Gondor

Since the main faction is Gondor, it's better off as Gondor..
Goblins for Moria is like Orcs for Mordor and Uruks for Isengard... WRONG :shiftee:

Evil Men is a dull name...

edit: oh, and btw, those are my opinions

Don't know what Nazgûl thinks

Edited by Lauri, 14 October 2008 - 09:13 PM.