260 replies to this topic

[Fruity.Gnome]

I think Gandalf the black is a MUST as a ring hero. The every fact is, even with this lightest heart, the ring of power corrupts absolutely, and i dont think this is emphasised as it should be in the films/book. Gandalf (in the books, that is) was the strongest of the istari (the wizards) but also the most humble, perhaps excluding radagast. But Radagast gave up most his power to become more one with nature...he's more of a druid than a wizard, anyhoo. It mentions in the silmarillion, or lost tales or something like that; that gandalf had a hidden power and majesty 'neath his robe. That might not be an exact quote, cus its coming from memory, but the fact remains that, possibly stripped of his form of flesh, gandalf could have surpassed sauron in power. Meaning Gandalf in his istari form could defeat sauron, but that is impossible because when he was bound to earth, along with the other 4 wizards, their power, although not diminished, was sort of tucked away a bit...

Ok enough rambling about how bloody awesome Gandalf is, im just saying that the others mentioned (isildur, Thorin, Erkenbrand whatever) dont have the power needed to bring out the power of the ring. Lest we forget, Isildur and Erkenbrand were still mortal, bloody good at fighting, but could still fall down some stairs and die.

There was a reason Gandalf said "i dare not take it" to Frodo, because the result of his taking of the ring would create the darkest of the dark lords yet, Gandalf the black.

REALLY sorry for my rambling

[Fruity.Gnome]

And as for Dragons, they have no magical power in the sense of the Dark Lords, or the Istari or the Elf Lords. Dragons, although BEINGS of magic, were completely natural in their strength. It may be possible for a dragon to wear the ring of power, but seeing as how the dragons (in Lore) were almost completely aloof from the affairs of the world, it would be completely possible that they would simply shake it off as another trinket, much like Tom Bombadil when he briefly wore the ring, and later on when Gandalf mentions "he would just leave it in a corner" or something like that (sorry my quotes suxx0rz) to Elrond.

Who could in fact possess the ring is a dilemma, no one dead could do it...for obvious reasons, and i cant help but thinking that the ring would have no effect on the Dragons, although this is debatable.

[Shikari]

Welcome erm, Fruity Gnome

Ramblings are most welcome here... In fact we seem to revolve around them.

However, try to keep them confined to a single post if no one has posted after you. You can use the edit feature to change your posts after they have been submitted.

Edited by Shikari, 25 May 2008 - 08:18 AM.

[Myrdin]

With the dragons as creatures of magic itself, yeh they would propably resist the ring. and yet i think they might " shake it of as a mere trinket " but One ring is different for its the most powerfull of thoose, and therefore i think - if the dragon would " use " rings power, he could have benefits, but if using he could possibly get affected - not bowing to sauron not matter how loong, but becoming evil, corrupted, ( Deathwing - Warcraft fans know ), eventually become " dark dragon lord ".
But just wering ( like frodo did ) i think - no effect.
but this is discutabile, becouse not much is knonw of the dragons in Tolkiens realm ( i mean the the thing that would be usefull for this discussion )

[Lauri]

Gandalf could have fought Sauron if he wanted to, but that fight would have destroyed Middle-Earth, meaning that it wouldn't have brought anything good there anyways...
Atleast as I can remember...

[mike_]

The only time Gandalf ever fought in his true form was against the Balrog in their final clash on the ruined tower of Zirag-Zigil. And even there they were almost equal in strength, but Gandalf proved the hardier.
He also says that he could have fought with Sauron, but as Lauri said, their battle would have destroyed Middle-earth, and the Valar forbade any of the Istar from doing so.

[Fruity.Gnome]

Gandalf would've won against the Balrog no matter what happened. The Balrog's power is in Shadow and flame, or the flame of Udun. As the bearer of the Secret Fire, Gandalf is almost immune to the old powers of Morgoth, or that's what i assume. The films actually diminish the power that Gandalf wields, if you remember the part in the film where Gandalf drives off the Nazgul with his the istari light, i can't be sure what would have happened, because feats of Gandalfs powers are few and far between in the books, but the effects on the Nazgul would've been much greater.

[mike_]

Aye. Unfortunately, the filmmakers also placed too much emphasis on Gandalf's staff, IMO. Such as the pillar of light shining from it, not his open palm. Also when the Witch-king broke it in the Extended Edition, that probably would've made him pissed off and not a trembling old man..
But this isn't really the topic for that
Cheers,
-mike

[Fruity.Gnome]

Is there a topic about lore? Or is the wrong Forum for that It just astounds me that one fellow created all this stuff, by that i mean JRR Tolkein...the guy was genius. But liek you said, wrong thread

[CIL]

Here's another possibility... Somewhat far-fetched but a person who could wield it. Maglor, son of Feanor lived and remained tied with Galadrial for the most powerful Elf in Middle-Earth.

Edited by Crazy Intellectual Liberal, 30 May 2008 - 07:17 PM.

[mike_]

While that is true, I'm doubtful that he would go to war - having spent his days wandering the beaches of Middle-earth, alone.
Would be cool to see him featured though.

[CIL]

He also may have been in the LA but not much was known about him except that he probably stayed throughout the 4th age. He must have fought in at least ONE major battle during the 2nd or 3rd ages. If he found the ring, he would have gone as crazy as Galadrial. I don't even want to know what would happen if someone like Fingolfin got ahold of the ring.... corruption and power more immense than Sauron with ring by far. However, if he could wound and nearly defeat Morgoth in single combat, Sauron with the one ring would probably be no problem for him. Maglor could probably send Sauron to the void so long as Sauron didn't have the ring.
One quick thing, as well... Gandalf was capable of taking on 5 Nazgul.

Edited by Crazy Intellectual Liberal, 14 June 2008 - 08:40 AM.

[mike_]

Aye. As could Glorfindel.
Maybe he wouldn't be such a bad choice after all.

[Myrdin]

though this strays a bit from the Ring heroes topic :
i think gandalf could time to time throw some AoE dmg ( you know, the time when the light in his staff concentrates, at the moment he could deal some nice aoe ), coz i find myself many times, having problem to lvl him up more than lvl 4-5

[CIL]

Same here, Myrdin, but that can be argued in Gondor. I would LOVE to see Maglor in game, but some people might call foul and start ranting and octupple posting, and spamming because he was said to wonder the beaches forever more or something (I'd get tired of that in about 2 minutes, Maglor probably gave it up after about 500-1000 years and ran off back to the Orocarnies, so while he may have fought in the 3rd and 4th ages or something like that, he probably didn't fight in the LA).

Also, I don't even want to think about what that so-called "hidden power and majesty" under Gandalf's robe might be .

I almost forgot this but... About the dragons and stuff with rings... It is possible that a ring could be eaten and have the same effects (Ungoliant and the Silmaril, anyone? Bfme II was a bad example as it was not straight from Tolkien's lore, but that is).

Edited by Crazy Intellectual Liberal, 15 June 2008 - 12:10 AM.

[{IP} Aridor]

A note on dragons. They are very very evil creatures in tolkien's lore. They are maiar like the balrog, only the inhabit a living body. They have evil personalities and great power. Read Turin's story and the hobbit. Both dragons are very evil. The thing is that in the 1st age the Dragons had their master in Morgoth. Now at this point the head dragon was higher than Sauron as far as war went, who was in charge of evil spirits like werewolfs. Morgoth used his Balrogs and Dragons as captains of is actual military. Sauron filled a sort of non-military role. It could almost be called a Secret police role. Like the SS. So after the fall of Thrangrodrim the few living Dragons fled north in to the withered hearth. The Dragon's power was slowly reduced from then. So it makes sense that the Dragon is a Goblin hero, but as a ring hero they would have lost so much of their power that they could not wield it. Because in Middle Earth binding yourself to the physical reduces your power. And evil the longer it is bond to the physical the less power it has. This is why Morgoth and Sauron lost the ability to change shape. They took physical wounds and were bound to their shape.

Now there at the time of the WOTR their were only a few people that Sauron had to fear could use the ring and defeat him. Galadrial, Elrond, Gandalf, Saruman, and this may be a surprise, Aragorn. In the movie's Aragorn is not given the amount of power he had. In him lies all the blood lines of middle earth except Dwarf. He has Maiar, Elf, and High men. He was able to wretch control of the palantir from Sauron.

But none of these people would claim the ring. So Ring heroes work for evil but not good. Which leaves us at an impasse.

[Vithar-133]

Good point. I guess, if the Free peoples have ring heroes, it'd have to be hypothectical at best.

[Puppeteer]

That's why when we don't have a good foundation to start on, there is debate over where to draw the line. Give the ring to any good hero, none at all, or a select few...

[Vithar-133]

I think rob already has ideas as to what he's going to do about Free Peoples Ring heroes.

[{IP} Aridor]

The problem is that there is no such thing as a good ring hero, taking the ring would make them an evil ring hero.