103 replies to this topic

[Phoenix Rising]

Like I said, I think they were prompted to change it by a higher power.

[SpardaSon21]

Like I said, I think they were prompted to change it by a higher power.

Probably the same Higher Power that gave us Jar-Jar...

[EduardPais]

speaking of jar-jar ... http://www.actiontri..._comic307.phtml

[keraunos]

I'd strongly prefer further development of SW Rebellions' Liberators and Bulwarks - few non-MC ships that added to Rebellion firepower. But then, Rebellion creators were one of the few that actually toutched EU.

A lot of the Rebellion stuff was totally made up for the game too, they just got to it first.

But then, it was much closer to SW world. We can see development of some units (ISD II, VSD II), some alternative projects (Strike Cruiser), plenty of EU-characters. All part of GFFA as we know it, which has its distinctive patterns, way of behaviour, racial ideas. In most other SW-games, it's simply "give this guy a lightsaber; invent some fancy stuff - and call it SW". No background, only couple of gadgets without any connection to EU/movies. No wonder those games seem so shallow.

Another thing - planets. Look what have you done to planets. Each has its own characteristics, background etc. Stock game? Just put some random pirate/enemy stuff in it, give each diffrent max_starbase and max_land. Except few planets (inf-healing Thyffera, defensive Hoth) almost no character...

It really bothers me - there are so many SW fans all over the world, yet each time a new game is made, it's made by team totally uninterested in SW - or so it seems.

When I was at PG's studio, almost everyone had some kind of SW memorabilia in their office, so I don't think it's quite that. I'm guessing the problems are top-down.

For one, I'd love to know why EaW's original Carrack, 1-M, TIE Crawler, T1, T3, etc. all had to be changed before it could be released. If you read the XMLs/strings, a lot of the new units (as of EaW) used to be something else that was analogous. You wouldn't change something like that midway through development unless you had to.

Still, there are fans and fans. Some simply like this mentioned SW-gadgets, while others are more into background (mainly expanded universe). Of course, I'm not saying those differences are bad - only that fans that are simply more into SW-universe then yet another space soap opera do get kind of ignored. Which is - again - strange; just look into EaW/FoC community. Divided as it is, how many "realistic" mods were developed in the meantime, and received feedback? So many players means so many potential buyers...

I don't believe that :( PR has seen someone from Lucasarts, showed them what he did, and they still weren't interested.

Regardless of who I interview with, I seem to have a terrible time getting anyone to even download the mod. In fact, I don't know of any place that I can say for certain that's actually installed it (other than PG, but, well, it's their game). I'd say it was from not having EaW/FoC on-hand, but I've asked about that before and was told that isn't not an issue for studios to get their hands on software. Many have a video game library even. So I don't know.

I think what Lucas Arts could do with PR is have him as a quality control consultant. Everything has to go through him for the okay to go.

Meh, just consider this: EaW took, what, almost two years to make? Had I been on staff from the start, this (PR) is the kind of game it could have been. That's one extra salary for so much more content and replayability. The problem is no one offers a position called "one-man mod team" or whatever you want to call what I do around here (not to slight the rest of the team). I'm hands-on in four or so departments and that just doesn't happen professionally. Especially not with someone with no industry experience.

Maybe it's high time to create a gaming company then? Considering how much you have achieved through the last two years, and that - as stated above - there's a huge gap in the market, it might be a good idea Just imagine similar development, but with you actually having a modeller, somebody who messes up with the code (allowing you to actually introduce 'proper' hardpoints, decent land combat, maintance, diplomacy, multiple factions etc.), and actually get paid for it at the ennd :]

[Phoenix Rising]

But then, it was much closer to SW world. We can see development of some units (ISD II, VSD II), some alternative projects (Strike Cruiser), plenty of EU-characters.

The planet placement made no sense (okay, it was one of the first attempts, but there were some glaring mistakes nonetheless); most of them seemed to be lifeless rocks, especially in the Outer Rim; too many heroes were drawn from obscure RPG sourcebooks and thus had no backstory; tactical combat was awful; hyperspace took forever... the game had its share of issues.

Still, there are fans and fans. Some simply like this mentioned SW-gadgets, while others are more into background (mainly expanded universe).

There were walls of action figures, expensive lightsaber/E-11 replicas, and I think even a life-sized Darth Maul. If you consider the diversity that's in EaW as far as where its content came from - Dark Forces (Katarn, Mohc, Dark Troopers), TIE Fighter (TIE Defender), Star Wars Galaxies (Rihkxyrk), Knights of the Old Republic (Manaan, Taris), Han Solo Adventures (Bonadan), Thrawn Trilogy (Mara, Thrawn, Wayland, Skipray, etc.), Dark Empire (Byss, Eclipse), Black Fleet Crisis (Atzerri, hypervelocity gun), Shadows of the Empire (StarViper), D6 Star Wars RPG (Barloz, Tremayne), d20 Star Wars RPG (Anaxes) - I'd say the people that worked on it are true fans. I just think there were some imposed limitations.

Maybe it's high time to create a gaming company then?

Heh, it's a nice thought, but I doubt I could obtain a license to actually do SW stuff. The only possibility might be for the RPG because I think their open source license gives you some flexibility.

Edited by Phoenix Rising, 17 December 2008 - 02:08 PM.

[keraunos]

The planet placement made no sense (okay, it was one of the first attempts, but there were some glaring mistakes nonetheless); most of them seemed to be lifeless rocks, especially in the Outer Rim; too many heroes were drawn from obscure RPG sourcebooks and thus had no backstory; tactical combat was awful; hyperspace took forever... the game had its share of issues.

Actuall gameplay was terrible - lack of moddability, so not only systems were placed diffrently, but their alliegance and resources were totally random. AI was terrible as well. Space battles were totally unplayable. And after battle damage that took forever to repair, even thou it only took seconds during battle :o

Yet, in the same time, we've got research system much more realistic then in EaW/FoC. We've got excellent character system, in which character could be killed or captured - and then replaced by another character. We've got characters not as super units, but as commanders, diplomats, spies. With diplomacy came popular uprisings and alliegances (and need to actually garrison all occupied planets), with espionage various other mission (sabotage, kidnapp) and troops good at them, etc. Impressive list of well thought (if poorly implemented) features

Still, there are fans and fans. Some simply like this mentioned SW-gadgets, while others are more into background (mainly expanded universe).

There were walls of action figures, expensive lightsaber/E-11 replicas, and I think even a life-sized Darth Maul. If you consider the diversity that's in EaW as far as where its content came from - Dark Forces (Katarn, Mohc, Dark Troopers), TIE Fighter (TIE Defender), Star Wars Galaxies (Rihkxyrk), Knights of the Old Republic (Manaan, Taris), Han Solo Adventures (Bonadan), Thrawn Trilogy (Mara, Thrawn, Wayland, Skipray, etc.), Dark Empire (Byss, Eclipse), Black Fleet Crisis (Atzerri, hypervelocity gun), Shadows of the Empire (StarViper), D6 Star Wars RPG (Barloz, Tremayne), d20 Star Wars RPG (Anaxes) - I'd say the people that worked on it are true fans. I just think there were some imposed limitations.

I have to admit one thing - many planets finally got some more attention. I would also add Fresia, and the way that alliance gained X-Wings But FoC was - for me - a total disaster. Entire background (GCW, Hutts, Black Sun, Dathomir) is fine, but then - mentioned StarViper as mass-produced units, leeching shields Kedalbe battleship, Aggressor destroyers with strange 'rays'. On land it's even worse. And Zann himself - man from nowhere suddenly controls 1/2 of galaxy? :(

Your list is impressive indeed, I even learned something new from it (hypervelocity gun); the point is, canon units are obsolete simply becouse there are some new, much stronger, units. Who needs infantry if we have turbolaser artillery?

And, obviously, I don't know the men responsible, so I don't blame them. I blame the one responsible for delivering product that doesn't meet my expectations, humble as they are Either the one who choose 'wrong team', or the one who put those limitations on them...

Maybe it's high time to create a gaming company then?

Heh, it's a nice thought, but I doubt I could obtain a license to actually do SW stuff. The only possibility might be for the RPG because I think their open source license gives you some flexibility.

First, let's see the reception that PR 1.1 will receive. Who knows Personally, I'd prefer to see next SW game make by you

[Casen]

Hahaha, God. Star Wars Rebellion. If I had a nickel for every Wookiepedia planet article with a footnote stating that "this planet was wrongfully placed in such and such sector in Star Wars rebellion" I'd be rich.

[feld]

With diplomacy came popular uprisings and alliegances (and need to actually garrison all occupied planets), with espionage various other mission (sabotage, kidnapp) and troops good at them, etc. Impressive list of well thought (if poorly implemented) features

The diplomatic aspects are what gave Rebellion value to me. It was the only strategy game I've ever seen that distinguished physical control of terriority from winning the hearts and minds of the people in that territory. I think that any game that tries to simulate the Rebellion absolutely NEEDS to have this feature to do it right. It's a shame that PG didn't do some variation on it. The current engine simulates the Rebellion against the Empire as if it were more like a civil war with two large relatively equalled matched powers...but in reality it seems to have been more of an insurgency. Too bad PG's engine cannot be taught to do Rebellion's loyalty trick.

r/
feld

[Casen]

The diplomatic aspects are what gave Rebellion value to me. It was the only strategy game I've ever seen that distinguished physical control of terriority from winning the hearts and minds of the people in that territory.

Err, Sins of a Solar Empire.

[Tropical Bob]

The diplomatic aspects are what gave Rebellion value to me. It was the only strategy game I've ever seen that distinguished physical control of terriority from winning the hearts and minds of the people in that territory.

Err, Sins of a Solar Empire.

In a sense...

Culture/loyalty in Sins isn't a really big deal. It's more of just a small additional way to achieve military conquest.

[Casen]

The diplomatic aspects are what gave Rebellion value to me. It was the only strategy game I've ever seen that distinguished physical control of terriority from winning the hearts and minds of the people in that territory.

Err, Sins of a Solar Empire.

In a sense...

Culture/loyalty in Sins isn't a really big deal. It's more of just a small additional way to achieve military conquest.

Actually, no. You can literally loose control of a planet if they don't like you. Hence the propaganda stations or whatever they're called.

[coinich]

With diplomacy came popular uprisings and alliegances (and need to actually garrison all occupied planets), with espionage various other mission (sabotage, kidnapp) and troops good at them, etc. Impressive list of well thought (if poorly implemented) features

The diplomatic aspects are what gave Rebellion value to me. It was the only strategy game I've ever seen that distinguished physical control of terriority from winning the hearts and minds of the people in that territory. I think that any game that tries to simulate the Rebellion absolutely NEEDS to have this feature to do it right. It's a shame that PG didn't do some variation on it. The current engine simulates the Rebellion against the Empire as if it were more like a civil war with two large relatively equalled matched powers...but in reality it seems to have been more of an insurgency. Too bad PG's engine cannot be taught to do Rebellion's loyalty trick.

r/
feld

Its a shame Total War's engines cannot be used for a space mod. :( That thing is so in depth its ridiculous.

[Kaleb Graff]

The planet placement made no sense (okay, it was one of the first attempts, but there were some glaring mistakes nonetheless); most of them seemed to be lifeless rocks, especially in the Outer Rim; too many heroes were drawn from obscure RPG sourcebooks and thus had no backstory; tactical combat was awful; hyperspace took forever... the game had its share of issues.
There were walls of action figures, expensive lightsaber/E-11 replicas, and I think even a life-sized Darth Maul. If you consider the diversity that's in EaW as far as where its content came from - Dark Forces (Katarn, Mohc, Dark Troopers), TIE Fighter (TIE Defender), Star Wars Galaxies (Rihkxyrk), Knights of the Old Republic (Manaan, Taris), Han Solo Adventures (Bonadan), Thrawn Trilogy (Mara, Thrawn, Wayland, Skipray, etc.), Dark Empire (Byss, Eclipse), Black Fleet Crisis (Atzerri, hypervelocity gun), Shadows of the Empire (StarViper), D6 Star Wars RPG (Barloz, Tremayne), d20 Star Wars RPG (Anaxes) - I'd say the people that worked on it are true fans. I just think there were some imposed limitations.
Heh, it's a nice thought, but I doubt I could obtain a license to actually do SW stuff. The only possibility might be for the RPG because I think their open source license gives you some flexibility.

Still, actually having stuff from obscure RPG sourcebooks should be considered a success. The only really exotic things on there is the stuff from RPG sources, as all of the rest any even halfway geek should have encountered. Much of it has been referenced so much that it doesn't really come from those sources. (Mostly Thrawn/Dark Empire) It's like they just looked up a bunch of stuff on Wookiepedia. That and the fact that half of the stuff was made up.
And on an RPG company: I'd join you if I could, but Star Wars doesn't operate under the OGL.

[Phoenix Rising]

First, let's see the reception that PR 1.1 will receive. Who knows Personally, I'd prefer to see next SW game make by you

I have concepts, but time is another matter. Time and money, unfortunately.

Hahaha, God. Star Wars Rebellion. If I had a nickel for every Wookiepedia planet article with a footnote stating that "this planet was wrongfully placed in such and such sector in Star Wars rebellion" I'd be rich.

LOL, so true. However, in cases where Reb created no canon contradictions, I wouldn't be surprised to see it used to place planets in a certain sector for that upcoming atlas. That seems to be the trend on Wook anyway.

The diplomatic aspects are what gave Rebellion value to me.

If there is a sequel to EaW, that feature will be a must for it to succeed.

It's like they just looked up a bunch of stuff on Wookiepedia.

It wouldn't surprise me if they did. EaW may be the first SW game done in the age of Wookieepedia and could be a sign of things to come (TFU excepted, since they had sweeping creative license to do whatever). New content isn't bad by itself - imagine DF and TF done with the help of Wook - but it has to be sensible. If EaW is the trend, we could end up with a bunch of games that are just "skinned" to be SW, instead of actually feeling like SW. That is, if they even do a bunch of new games (is there anything else coming besides the new MMO?).

And on an RPG company: I'd join you if I could, but Star Wars doesn't operate under the OGL.

Blast !

[feld]

The diplomatic aspects are what gave Rebellion value to me. It was the only strategy game I've ever seen that distinguished physical control of terriority from winning the hearts and minds of the people in that territory.

Err, Sins of a Solar Empire.

really? Hmmm...a buddy of mine sent his copy to me and it's been languishing on my shelf uninstalled...might be time to dust it off. Thanks!

[Casen]

The diplomatic aspects are what gave Rebellion value to me. It was the only strategy game I've ever seen that distinguished physical control of terriority from winning the hearts and minds of the people in that territory.

Err, Sins of a Solar Empire.

really? Hmmm...a buddy of mine sent his copy to me and it's been languishing on my shelf uninstalled...might be time to dust it off. Thanks!

Eh, once you play a single large scale game once of it, it'll take months, but once you complete it, you feel like you've played everything there is to play, and then you never play it again. =/ Oddly enough it gets boring to me.

[SpardaSon21]

The diplomatic aspects are what gave Rebellion value to me. It was the only strategy game I've ever seen that distinguished physical control of terriority from winning the hearts and minds of the people in that territory.

Err, Sins of a Solar Empire.

really? Hmmm...a buddy of mine sent his copy to me and it's been languishing on my shelf uninstalled...might be time to dust it off. Thanks!

Eh, once you play a single large scale game once of it, it'll take months, but once you complete it, you feel like you've played everything there is to play, and then you never play it again. =/ Oddly enough it gets boring to me.

Try 7 Deadly Sins. Take every Sins mod you can think of and cram them together. It's so big it is bigger than the game itself. My Sins installation is 1.48 gigabytes. My 7DS installation is 1.78 gigabytes. 10 custom races (yes the Empire is in there, and yes their Star Destroyers are fear-inspiring, and no, 10 additional races are not enough for him, expect more in 3.0), custom effects, custom models. The difference between 7 Deadly Sins and Sins of a Solar Empire is like the difference between Phoenix Rising and EaW/FoC. Two completely different games.

[Tropical Bob]

Actually, no. You can literally loose control of a planet if they don't like you. Hence the propaganda stations or whatever they're called.

Except it's pretty hard to actually lose or win a planet to propaganda. Though in some cases it's magically unstoppable.

If there is a sequel to EaW, that feature will be a must for it to succeed.

That is, if they even do a bunch of new games (is there anything else coming besides the new MMO?).

I thought I heard something at some point about an EaWII, but I'm probably wrong.

Try 7 Deadly Sins. Take every Sins mod you can think of and cram them together. It's so big it is bigger than the game itself. My Sins installation is 1.48 gigabytes. My 7DS installation is 1.78 gigabytes. 10 custom races (yes the Empire is in there, and yes their Star Destroyers are fear-inspiring, and no, 10 additional races are not enough for him, expect more in 3.0), custom effects, custom models. The difference between 7 Deadly Sins and Sins of a Solar Empire is like the difference between Phoenix Rising and EaW/FoC. Two completely different games.

Indeed.

[Kaleb Graff]

First, let's see the reception that PR 1.1 will receive. Who knows Personally, I'd prefer to see next SW game make by you

I have concepts, but time is another matter. Time and money, unfortunately.
LOL, so true. However, in cases where Reb created no canon contradictions, I wouldn't be surprised to see it used to place planets in a certain sector for that upcoming atlas. That seems to be the trend on Wook anyway.

It's like they just looked up a bunch of stuff on Wookiepedia.

It wouldn't surprise me if they did. EaW may be the first SW game done in the age of Wookieepedia and could be a sign of things to come (TFU excepted, since they had sweeping creative license to do whatever). New content isn't bad by itself - imagine DF and TF done with the help of Wook - but it has to be sensible. If EaW is the trend, we could end up with a bunch of games that are just "skinned" to be SW, instead of actually feeling like SW. That is, if they even do a bunch of new games (is there anything else coming besides the new MMO?).

And on an RPG company: I'd join you if I could, but Star Wars doesn't operate under the OGL.

Blast !

I know about the feeling like Star Wars thing. That's why you need to do the next one, because I haven't me a game that felt more like I was actually leading a fleet, but it would be even better if it was built from scratch. I think that s Saga Edition was built in the same mold, personally. They sacrificed Star Wars for gameplay. Sales were probably down, and they wanted it to be easier. I think the no OGL is because they don't hold the license to Star Wars, but they do to D&D.

[SpardaSon21]

When will these people learn that the best way to make a good-selling Star Wars game is to make an actual Star Wars game, not a generic (insert genre here) with Star Wars units? That Age of Empires ripoff (so bad I can't even remember the name) is a perfect example.